Are CD players dead

"will there ever be a time when it will be impossible to buy an in-production cd player that only plays redbook ???”

Of course. The proper question is when. And the answer is that it’s too early to tell.

Phaelon,
You`re always the voice of reason in your posts.

Too early to tell with the CD Player, NOT too early to tell
with the CD Format. Most Downloading is via MP3, I doubt that High Resolution even makes up 2% of the Downloading Market. What you are really talking about is replacing the CD Format with MP3, NOT replacing it with High Resolution Downloads. That will be the end result if you prematurely pull the plug on CD. High Rez. Downloads (by virtue of the Market) are not ready. If High Resolution Downloads never take off (2%), we will be stuck with MP3 as replacement! Very, Very, Very risky game you are playing with CD!

'Very, Very, Very risky game you are playing with CD!'

On this forum the end of the CD might not be noticed. Most will have their LPs to keep them happy. As long as Diane Krall is on LP!

Pettyofficer: Very interesting and scary theory. As nice as it is, I don't necessarily need hi-rez. In fact, 100% of my music is redbook. One would hope that if cds are abolished, sites would still have uncompressed material for sale. One would hope........

Slow down and get a grip Petty. I promise you that we will not be stuck with MP3 as music’s highest form of a playback medium. Force yourself to remember who we are - we will keep tinkering with digital reproduction, and whatever comes after that, until it truly becomes indistinguishable from the origin. I’m not saying that this is going to happen any time soon. I’m just saying that on the journey of processed music, we haven’t even left the harbor.

I do understand your concern about the mass acceptance of MP3. I felt the same way about fast food milk shakes. But old fashion shakes are still available if not as convenient as the processed kind.

Live music is still appreciated. And as long as that is so, there will be a stick buy which we can measure any format change they try to sell us.

hi phaelon:

if you're right, what will replace the cd player if hi-rez doesn't take off ?? possibly blue ray players ??

Hi Mrtennis,
Just to be clear, I’m not claiming any type of clairvoyance. I’m just trying to resist getting as upset as Petty. Regarding Hi-Rez, I just can’t imagine them screwing it up so badly that it’s totally abandoned. To me, that would be like abandoning Hi-def TV. I don’t know why it’s so, but it just doesn’t seem like the movers and shakers of audio can ever come to consensus on anything. You want to connect your Hi-Def TV, no problem - HDMI, that’s it. How many different connection alternatives are there for a DAC.

I suspect at some point we will see more downloadable content from amazon and others at CD Redbook resolution.

Practically though, the time involved to download even that much less high res album length content would not appeal to most. It will take some time to get to the point where bandwidth from homes to commercial sites is large enough to download those quantities of data quickly. So in teh meantime, CDs will continue to linger and serve a purpose, even if not necessarily thrive.

Again, bottom line is I think after 70 years or so of commercial recordings being available for sale, plus all the new emerging channels/sources of music, that the home audio/music market in most countries is essentially saturated and that growth from here forward will be slow in comparison to the past. But again, along with that, there is more music out there and available at all price points and quality levels than ever, so that is a good thing. We should really stop fretting and worrying about these things and just enjoy!!!! That is what I try to do.

I agree with Mapman's summation. As long as TT's are alive, CPD's will be as well. The abandonment of a particular format is one's personal decision. Don't fall off the turnip truck in attempt to jump on the next bandwagon!

Not trying to scare anyone. Just think that in your zeal to
put Ultimatum on CD Format, not stopping to think of
possible consequences. History shows the switching of Formats overlapping. This will be the first of deliberately creating a vacuum between the end of one Format, and the lack of the beginning of the next (certainly in area of Music selection). Don't know what the
hell is going to happen. Maybe you should be afraid of only
Format left for your New Music ends up being MP3! People are gonna go where the Music selection is-verrry risky!

Back in the 80's I couldn't afford a Nakamichi cassette deck. Now I have three of their best models. It's amazing what a few decades can do! I hope CD players die. When they do, I'll pick up that dcs Scarlatti for $10 at the
Goodwill store. Maybe I'll get an Accuphase too...yeah,
that's right, an Accuphase and a Wadia-maybe two each!

Tonykay, LOL!

3o years from now yes. Dead. Behind the times already. TT still ahead.

Slow down and get a grip on the CD Format. Why the Ultimatum? SACD, DVD-Audio, Hi-Rez. DVD Audio, MLP DVD
Audio Multi-Channel, SACD Multi-Channel, all have been
abandoned and replaced with MP3. You are going to end up
adding High Rez. Computer Audio Downloads onto that pile if
you hand off the CD Market to MP3. High Rez. Downloads don't have the selection to remotely compete with MP3. Pulling CD removes last stumbling block to MP3. Everything else with extreme low selection ends up circling the drain.
Bad idea bursting MP3 dam by blowing CD-standby for Flood!

No one will be left behind.

Thanks to treads like this, I’ve started using my CD Player again. It’s been powered off for the last few years while I have concentrated on my music server for all digital playback. I’ve rediscovered just how much I like my old Esoteric DV-50. Digital hard disc media may on it way out, but not in my room.

That's funny. It's had the same affect on me...and left me wishing that threads about the death of CD players were dead.

Good point on the not finding cd quality downloads. If that should ever break (read: if iTunes ever becomes cd quality 16/44) THEN things will take off like a rocket on the computer music side of things.

That of course assumes most of the people actually care if Apple does that!

Is the owner of the store an idiot btw?

i don't think so. i think the owner of the store is a salesman. nothing moves product like a sense of urgency. :)

Absolutely not. As with vinyl, there are people who prefer the experience and quality (whoever thought that something would make us nostalgic for CDs?) of the format.

I have played with all kinds of computer encoding formats, and no matter what (listening through Grado RS-1/RA-1 combo), it doesn't sound as good. Even lossless, which most people aren't going to use because of the space that a file requires.

This doesn't even take into account the complexities of full musical access. I am a huge fan of Japanoise bands (High Rise, Fushitsusha, Overhang Party, etc.). If I didn't have my CDs and companies that sell them, such as Forced Exposure, I'd be screwed.

I think that the person who said that is in the business of selling the "next big thing," and that's computer audio. I like the idea of it, of having a giant hard drive with your whole music collection on it. I don't like the necessary redundancy, and the fact that your entire collection can be wiped out by a computer failure or hard drive crash. So you have to back it up, then back up the back up the back up the back up.

Or you can have CDs on the shelf. No brainer for me.

My point exactly Kevvwill. Only concern is vacuum of
selection in New Music once CD is gone (1 year), and
vacuum of Selection of New Music in High Rez. Downloads.
I sense the same desperation in Selection in High Rez.
Downloads as I did in SACD-how did that work out for us?
Did somebody forget something like providing enough Stock
in High Rez. Downloads before pulling all of the CD Stock?
Are you actually replacing the CD Format with something, or replacing it with Hot Air, MP3, i-Tunes, False promises,
and Snake Oil? You don't have ANY selection yet-too soon!

"whoever thought that something would make us nostalgic for CDs"

Nothing will make me nostalgic for CDs.

They are what they areand are a fact of life. Part of what they are and have always been is lousy packaging that is nondescript, fragile, small, and hard to read. That's it for me.

Music servers and digital players will continue to evolve to include more and more direct or linked access to more content.

Over time, the amount of information at your fingertips about an album, artist, or song or anything else related will continue to grow and become more user friendly and oriented. That's a major step forward associated with teh technology beyond just sound quality. To me good sound quality plus the entire package is what matters. Most CD packages just plain still s--- even after all these years.

Guess that there are two types of Music Listeners. Those
who want better Sound Quality (who call themselves
Audiophiles), and those who just want pretty packages.
I have got no problem with that! Just don't confuse pretty
packages with better Sound Quality-S.Q. is NOT what you
want! Stop masquerading as something your not (Emperor and
his New Clothes)! Your not fooling anyone! You don't have
a High Rez. Download Format with anywhere near enough selection to replace CD Selection. Means alot of people will have to do without their Music/ New Music-happy?

I want it all and I want it now!!!

I agree with Mapman regarding the lousy packaging of the CD. The saving grace is the still really good sound redbook is capable of providing when mastered well i.e. most jazz recordings. In a high quality system they can sound as good as anything else.
Regards,
Charles

if it were me, I would have kept the lp format for the packaging at least as an option for those who care and just stuck the CD in that instead of a record. Packaging and overall end user utility took a big hit with CDs. If they would have done this, I bet many who do not like digital would have been converts by now, for whatever that is worth to the music industry (probably not much in the big scheme of things unfortunately).

Indie labels are doing really elegant things with CD packaging, as are arTEEST types such as Bjork. Her "Family Tree" box is a never-ending source of packaging delight.

CDs are a lot more utilitarian than LPs, but digital music takes the cake in that regard. I don't doubt that it's brilliant. My fundamental issues are technological, and overall selection.

I am a lot less dogmatic about digital than I used to be. Now, I just want the music.

In this context, what exactly does "left behind" mean?

Nothing nostalgic here. Just believe that the only leverage
to help incentivise Major Labels actually do continue to increase costly Music selection in High Rez. Downloads, an
alternative Format with huge selection (CD) be used as a wedge. End of 2012, leverage/wedge is gone with selection in High Rez. Downloads in limbo? How do you make sure to keep the Major Labels honest on promises for more Music
Selection in High Rez. Downloads? What....pinky promise?
Really???

>Just believe that the only leverage
to help incentivise Major Labels actually do continue to increase costly Music selection in High Rez. Downloads, an
alternative Format with huge selection (CD) be used as a wedge<

Wow, your posts are a chore to read sometimes......

Shakey

Back at you!

>Back at you!<

And you said this, why?

Shakey

Shakey,

No malice intended. The only words I understood from your post was the last line. It may be a chore to read the other posts here, but if you re-read your post and it makes sense to you, then I guess I just don't understand it. Had it not been for your complaint, I would not have made the comment. Don't dwell on it.

Again, everyone avoids the question. How do you keep the
Major Labels honest, and committed to increasing Music
Selection in High Rez. Downloads? CD's are supposed to be
gone by the end of 2012. How do you make up for the loss in CD Music Selection with a skeleton of Music Selection- in High Rez. Downloads? SHOW ME the Music Selection in
High Rez. Downloads before you do away with CD Music
Selection. If you are switching Formats, they are supposed
to overlap! What are you trying to create ,a vacuum of Music inbetween THIS Transition-WHY? Do we forgo Music?

"How do you keep the Major Labels honest, and committed to increasing Music
Selection in High Rez. Downloads?”

My surmise is that the fixed costs associated with offering a Hi-Rez download are significantly less than those of producing and distributing a CD. Once more audiophiles start investing in computer based front ends, I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be profitable for the major labels to offer more Hi-Rez downloads.

Phaelon, this doesn't make up for lack of transition between CD and High Rez. Downloads! There is no Music
Selection Overlap here at all. When you change Formats,
Music Selection overlap between them means no-one loses
their Music. There is time inbetween to save your Music,
and adapt/compensate. Ending CD by end of 2012 is like
feeding all Music lovers to the Sharks. They get eaten,
O-kay by you??? Cutting off an Audiophiles ears to spite
his face-accomplishes what towards Music listening?

What am I going to do with my 1000 CDs?

guess you're going to be stuck listening to them on that EMM. poor guy. :)

Yeah, I think I'll stick with my EMM before I surrender to the the iTunes tsunami.
(And the spellchecker here capitalized the T in iTunes for me. That probably means it's so embedded in the culture it's the only way to go.)

Funny. I started the same thread a while ago and everybody chastised me. Today, it's ok.....shame on you all. LOL!

Devilboy,
The path to progress is strewn with the broken bodies of those intrepid souls who were just a little too ahead of the game :-)

i think you were flamed because of your username. :)

two things i don't understand about these discussions.

1. the whole "no more cds" after 2012 is a rumor. some nameless execs are cited in a news source most people don't regularly read. it's not like it was in the new york times and the major labels have spoken out with an official statement. as it is, this is more like the reports of the world ending with the mayan calendar in 2012. if the world ends, it is likely that cd production will come to a halt, but this little "news" item strikes me as meaningless.

2. why do people have to "take sides" when it comes to cds and computer files as sources?

if you're like rgs92, with 1000 cds of music that he regularly enjoys listening to and a state of the art cd player, there is no need for him to make computer audio an undertaking, unless he feels like undertaking it and he can do it when and if he feels like it. and if he were to wait 5 years to do so, the technology would have advanced to the point that it would be relatively painless to make any sort of transition.

if you're like me, and have spent more time on computer audio in the past 10 years, why should i upgrade my cd player past a certain point? i might have 500 cds, but they're all ripped into flac and wav files. i have not bought more than a handful of cds in the past 10 years, and most of my new music has been vinyl or digital downloads. of course, the advantage of cds today is that they are inexpensive relative to digital downloads. i just bought two remastered muddy waters cds for $12 on amazon. digital downloads would have cost more, and sacd and vinyl versions would have cost significantly more. i'm satisfied with the cd version, but if i wanted to go over the top, i could purchase the 180g 45rpm or sacd version for $65 to $100.

a number of the manufacturers of equipment seem to be source agnostic and offer the ability to use whatever you want. bryston, linn, naim, esoteric, luxman, etc.

i honestly don't understand all the fuss or the need to proselytize. enjoy your favorite formats. leave others to enjoy theirs. i imagine it's clear to everyone on the forum that audiophiles are a relatively small market for the music industry as a whole and the major labels are going to do what they do to make money and move product. on some of my new vinyl purchases, they offer digital downloads. i've been routinely offered the option of flac files. quality wise, that's fine for me. at my price point of equipment, i don't have any illusions with regard to "absolute sound."

btw, rgs92, coming from an EMM you'll probably need to do a little better than iTunes if you ever decide to get into digital downloads. :) more like jriver or foobar2k on windows and pure music or amarra on mac.

Well said Anonymoustao! My only problem is with those
Downloaders who have this Ultimatum Finality with CD Format! Will it end, yes. Will it end too soon before High
Rez. Downloads have an adequate Music Selection to replace that of CD? We Transform from one Format to the next via
a gradual Music Selection conversion. Why-so people don't lose their Music in the conversion. Regardless if it is
2012 or not, some are really pushing hard for premature end
to CD BEFORE there is adequate High Rez. Download Music
Selection available-leaving many without their Music!

No way.I was a 100% vinyl person from 1963 to 1990.I finally caved and bought a cd player that year.Now I have a decent cd collection to go with my lps. and 45s..Many cds. sound really good, especially if mastered properly try Sundazed Beau Brummels.Also many cds have unreleased cuts on them. I remember the death of the lp all too well, still waiting.Both formats will live on for music afficianados.The everyday person will take the easiest route and buy whatever is the latest.The lemming syndrome.Time will tell,there may be a temporary death knell, but watch, once people think they are obsolete, they will become desireable again.Tube gear comes to mind along with vinyl and old cars.And old cars are in no way better performing than new ones,and I have both and like boyh.

Transition from LP to CD, not the same as transition from
CD to High Rez. Downloads. Why the difference??? Imagine
a severe cutback on all LP production with only a handful
of CD Music Selection available. Imagine that this was the
case at the start of CD, with all LP Music Selection gone
overnight. There would be a complete vacuum of Selection
from either Format. There would be no Music to listen to.
This didn't happen. Why is it happening now during this
Transition? 16/44.1 CD to 16/44.1 Downloads not a step up,
more like a step sideways. MP3/I-Tunes, Step downwards.
You don't have a Format, with enough Music Selection, that
is a step up from CD. Eliminating CD too early will only
create a vacuum. Many will have to give up their Music-
or step sideways, or step down-Unacceptable! You are not
ready to replace the CD yet, do your homework first!

.
Anonymoustao, well said.
.

Homework means having adequate Music Selection first,
on the superior sounding Format, and having this prior to
getting rid of the old Format. It was never a question of
getting rid of CD due to SACD since there never was an
adequate Music Selection for SACD to replace CD. Ditto for High Rez. Downloads. 16/44.1 Downloads sound about the same as 16/44.1 CD so what are you left with? Whatever you are trying to replace CD with, you haven't got superior sounding Format together with adequate Music Selection. You have nothing, but smoke and mirrors! You plan to replace CD with an imaginary Format made up of Smoke, and Mirrors? I will pay for it with imaginary dollars-that acceptable?