>>12-04-10: Dcarol
The fact that the Whest phonostages play MM is an aside as James says 'at this level people should be using MC'<<
That is pretentious BS on his part.
I own a half dozen moving magnets from the 70's and 80's that will kick the sh** out of many moving coils.
And I use them with far better phono preamps than his. |
i measured the capacitance of the tonearm cable by disconnecting the cable from the cartridge terminals and measuring capacitance at the +/- leads of the rca connector with a multimeter.
this discussion has become badly confused. the tonearm cable presents a capacitance across the +/- leads of the rca input at the phono stage. jonathan carr provided an explanation on how this can influence the performance of your phono stage in a previous comment in this thread, so i would encourage interested parties to look through some of jonathan's earlier comments because he gave a really good explanation that i am not going to attempt to repeat here.
in any event, a capacitance measured across the +/- leads at the rca input of the phono stage represents a capacitance that would be *in parallel* with the capacitance presented by the tonearm cable. therefore, you can get a measure of the effective capacitance at the rca input by *adding* the capacitance of the tonearm cable and the capacitance measured across the +/- leads of the rca input. you can then use that effective capacitiance in conjunction with the instructions the come with the lyra delos cartridge to set the input impedance level at the phono stage.
just because you can see a 220pf capacitor on the circuit board does not mean that the capacitance across the +/- leads of the rca input is 220pf. in my case, i attempted to measure the input capacitance at the whest phono stage with the power turned off because i was hoping for a simple measurement. it is simply not worth my while to attmept to model the effective capacitance of active devices on the circuit board to come up with a presumably more "precise" value; first, i don't have a schematic of the phono stage circuit board, and second, i wouldn't spend the time to come up with such a capacitance estimate if i did have the schematic.
given the amount of confusion that seems to have arisen, i would suggest that those who have a triplanar tonearm use a capacitance value of about 80pf for the 1 meter tonearm cable and assume the input capacitance of the phono stage to be 0pf. then you can use the 80pf value with the lyra delos instructions and set the phono stage input impedance accordingly. |
Paperw8 : "You'll get better dynamics but i think that 470 ohms is a bit bright. i had previously been using an effective load impedance of about 363 ohms. i am currently using an effective load impedance of 455 about ohms but may go back to 363 ohms after a while."
Indeed...my findings also Pw8. 220 initially seemed a little too bright but I had a feeling VTA needed further dialling in and it's pretty much there now. Azimuth and bias have taken some time because it's such a tolerant cartridge. Now that it's nearly there it's starting to sound like a very smooth tracker....Even though my MMIII has a similar stylus profile it's much more critical before it snaps into focus. It's a pleasure to "rediscover" MC with the Delos. It's my first Lyra but may not be the last...
I agree with the guys who say take the HFN/RR test disc tracking tests with a pinch of salt. The Lyra appears unexceptional when tracing test tracks (at the average VTF) but on music sounds unshakeable without necessarily having everything dialled in yet.
Best.....................M. |
..Having said that, tracking seems to be improving as the cartridge runs in. I revisited the HFN/RR test disc without changing anything (minimal adjust on the bias) and it seemed to have almost cleared the 2nd band this time, only an hour or so after the previous check. (I've reached a staggering 5 hrs on the clock now).
The Delos does naturally sit low, but my last cart had about the same ground clearance at this stage. Provided the suspension doesn't settle any further or start colliding with warps it should be tolerable.
I've been playing my worst albums - albums which normally don't excite the listener too much for whatever rationalisations e.g. suspected "poor pressing", and the Delos is turning each into "a performance". There have been more than a few spellbinding moments.
Cheers..............M. |
I too am thinking of putting a Delos or a Keos on a Scoutmaster with JMW 9 Signature. I have the VPI/Dynavector cart on one wand and a Shelter 501 II on another. To add weight I had my dealer add a shim (from VPI I believe)between the cart and the arm.
The VPI/Dynavector is devoid of highs to my 55yr old ears compared to cd's or DVDA through the same amp/speakers. The Shelter lacks dynamics, noticeable on drum hits and the like. I have tried different cables, phono preamps and loadings.
Maybe Mr. Carr can lend us his thoughts on this combo or has someone actually tried it? Not looking for utmost detail, need upper highs and some slam with somewhat warm mids. Seems as Delos and Keos might have those characteristics.
Thanks,
Robert |
Just mounted a Delos on my SME 309 tonearm with vdHul D-501 Hybrid cable from the armbase to my Audio Research PH3 RIAA. So far I am loading with 100 Ohm tantal resistors. The vdH cable has a capacitance of 75 pF/m - I have no idea og the capaciatance of the internal wire in the arm - anyone?
So according to the manual my load should be in the 200-390 Ohm range - pending what total capacitance is - I just read that it is a total of 155 pF - giving a load range of 330-160 Ohm. Gotta try this, when it has a bit more mileage on it... |
So, nothing yet from JC but I bought the Kleos anyway.
OMG! This is apparently the cartridge the Sig 9/Scoutmaster needed in my system. Has stronger upper highs than my Shelter 501 II, speed/slam, really nice bottom end, full (not overdone) mids, AND plenty of detail without being harsh. I heard reverb on Paul McCartney's voice in places I had not heard before. Guitars are wonderful and the way this cart reproduces piano is probably illegal.
About the speed, as many of you have probably experienced, often you get speed in the form of the leading edge of the note but not the fullness or the decay. The Kleos gets it all. More of the "In the room" bit than I am used to hearing form this system.
I am hearing some sibilance that probably should not be there so I may need to go to 1.8g as I am a bit below that. Also at 100ohms and it probably needs more. Left the VTA where the Shelter was so there is probably some work to be done there. Overall it is a shade raw sounding but I suspect that is a breakin and setup issue. It is not what I would call harsh.
Y'all be cool,
Robert |
>>12-30-10: Robob
I am hearing some sibilance that probably should not be there so I may need to go to 1.8g as I am a bit below that.<<
This is undoubtedly a tonearm, not cartridge, related issue. Or the alignment is imprecise.
I track Kleos in 3 tonearms at 1.75g or less without any issues.
Dealer disclaimer |
Thanks for your reply.
1.8 did not solve it and I have checked the alignment. I brought the rear of the arm down as well. It may be less pronounced but it is still there. Otherwise the Kleos is quite nice. It has 3 or 4 hours on it now. I do not hear misstracking on high level passages, just sibilance and sometimes some grunge on male vocals. It is not on all vocals but it is fairly common.
I will start another thread as this is supposed to be Delos related.
Robert |
Does Jonathan Carr know why they discontinued the Dorian?...err.. replaced it with the Delos?
I LOVE my Dorian (S/N DR0098)and after 5 years my only complaint is that the Washi Paper needs to be replaced! :) |
"Does Jonathan Carr know why they discontinued the Dorian?...err.. replaced it with the Delos?"
Yep, he is the designer. Have your heard the Delos? As you may have read, the Delos is warmer without loosing the detail.
Robert |
I have a question about low riders. What exactly a low rider makes? My Delos sounds superb, but I noticed that it rides a little lower than it did when I first bought it (or at least it appears so to me, but I wouldn't stake my life on it :) It's possible that the suspension settled after about half a year of weekend use. There is about a millimeter, or close to it, of clearance between the record surface and the lowest part of the cartridge. Would this be classified as a low rider? Is this a problem that should be addressed with the dealer? |
Actus. The manual states that when in use the cantilever should appear to be at 90 degrees to the front face. This seems to be the case when the cart is "low riding" (by this I mean the sort of "ground" clearances you describe).
Mine is the same but I've yet to hear it collide with any severe warps. My previousa cart didn't offer any more clearance than this either.
With warped discs it can be a little bit unnerving at times though...
Hope this helps..................M. |
Thanks Moonglum. The cantilever looks to be perfectly perpendicular to the red front magnet carrier so I guess it's not a low rider and just as it's supposed to be. The sound certainly seems to be confirming it, haha! |
Actus, no problem buddy.:)
I could imagine a few users returning their carts for remedial action but you wonder if that's the right thing to do in all(?) cases. Does this mean the manufacturer would crank up the suspension to compensate - giving the impression of a cart with too little VTF but excellent ground clearance. If so, ostensibly, that would defeat Lyra's original design intent while gratifying the customer.
At least the washi paper doesn't pick up many passengers i.e. fluff, when it happens, tends to stick mostly to the cantilever?
I have to admit that despite the restrictive nature of Lyra's setup recommendations for their new generation of carts, the results have been "textbook accurate". Horizontal VTA seems to give perfect results with a downforce of 1.75-1.76g (for me anyway). |
Actus,
1mm gap sounds normal to me. Mine was adjusted as the washi paper was touching the vinyl during playback, dragging up dustball at end of side sometimes. Since the adjustment, I have roughly 1mm gap. |
I recently got a Delos. Have done about 50 hours. I find the sound to be too bony (less meat)/threadbare. There is also an extra sizzle in the treble that distracts me. I am using it on a Technics SL-1200 TT with its stock arm. Here are the configurations I have tried:
VTF: 1.7, 1.75, 1.8 grams
Impedance loading: 47 kohms, 400 ohms, 200 ohms
VTA: almost neutral
My phonostage is a RCM Sensor Prelude.
I do not have the tools to measure the exact angle at which the stylus sits on the record (I know it is critical) but having tried various VTF, I did not hear any improvement in the areas that I am concerned. The threadbareness and sizzling treble is always there. Is it a matter of break-in ?
As reference I also use a ZYX RS30, Empire EDR9 and in the past Denon 103pro, none of these had these issues. Any suggestions on what could be going on ? |
Pani,
I'd suggest you give the cart a bit longer to break in, even though mine sounded great right out of the box, but even better after it broke in. I'm not familiar with the other cartridges you listed, but the Delos sounds very well balanced to me, which perhaps could be perceived as "bony" perhaps? I had sibilance issues with male vocals with my previous Soundsmith Aida so I can say with confidence the Delos does not exhibit sibilance issues, at least to my ear.
Btw, I'm also considering the Sensor Prelude so I'm a bit concerned now after reading your post. How long have you had it and what do you think of it? I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since it's now impossible to contact members directly, this seems to be the only way to ask for input. |
Pani - what happened to your Nouvelle Platine Verdier |
Actusreus, I will let it burn in more.
Dover, I am upgrading the motor of my Platine so my standby Technics is playing these days. |
Actusreus, I forgot to add, the RCM is a superb phonostage. Please do not drop it from your shortlist because of my Delos issue. I have heard the RCM in at least 6 different carts including the ZYX 4D and it is one heck of a phonostage. Very quiet, clean, open, dynamic with an almost natural tube like midrange. |
Good to hear, Pani. Always a tricky thing with pieces of gear you can't readily audition in your system.
Keep us posted on the Delos. |
I have a question, first, I have the Lyra Delos cart and my Tonearm mass category is from mid-heavy to heavy. Is my Delos compliance with my Tonearm? Thank you. |
@audiofeil when you ran Delos on the Triplaner, did you use damping fluid ???
right now I am running without it...but....??????
thanks for input
Jim |
