I decided to try the koetsu signature rosewood platinum and love it so far. It's so natural musical balanced sounding...maybe will at some future point disappoint with some poorly recorded moder records but so far serious boogie and no fatigue... |
Lewm, the only reason people might think the bass has no oomph is that their tonearm's effective mass is too low. Koetsu's have plenty of oomph but they require a rather heavy arm or some ballast to do their best.
Michael, there are two basic Koetsu chassis, the regular one and the platinum magnet version which I think is a little more detailed. I think the Rosewood Signature Platinum is the hot point in the line. I know of no one who thinks Koetsu's sound bad. I have not heard one with Harbeths but I can not imagine it wouldn't sound great as long as you make sure your tonearm's effective mass is up there where it should be. The Stone body versions will work better in lighter arms as they are quite heavy. Try as I might I can not hear much difference between the ones I have heard. I do not think IMHO they are worth the money. Having said all this if you are spending anything around $4000 you really should give the Ortofon Windfeld Ti a close look. It is not as warm as a Koetsu but it will sail through tracks that the Koetsu stumbles on. There is no cartridge that tracks as well as the Windfeld that I know of. It is perfectly neutral and plays everything well from string quartets to Metallica. I use my Koetsu mostly for classical and female voices. I also have a Clearaudio and an Air Tight. The Windfeld Ti is handily the best all round cartridge of them all because of it's neutrality and tracking ability. There are situations the other cartridges might make me unhappy but never the Windfeld. |
thanks for all the information and input.
I have played a lot of records in the last two days and tweaked the room acoustics and cabling a bit and find the pass lab monoblocks and harbeth 40.2 most of the time to be sublime for me so will probably just stay with the lyra kleos. I think a warmer cartridge may backfire. I listened to everything from sam rivers to pharoah sanders to stevie ray vaughan and eurythmics and sarah vaughan and the verve and kamasi washington. All of it except for the kamasi sounded amazing. the kamasi was a little bit muddy but that mastering and mix is challenging imho for any system....still enjoyable though.
I have a friend maybe down the road when the quarantine is loosened up who might be persuaded to bring over his koetsu but until then will just be very grateful for what I got |
I have a Koetsu Black. It was in my system when I (briefly) owned a pair of Harbeth SHL-5 30th Anniversary Edition. As good as the Koetsu Black is, and it's really good, it didn't help with those Harbeths. I found them kind of boring no matter the source. To me, they made everything sound the same. Perhaps my room wasn't a good fit. All I know is that they didn't work out for me. |
@mulveling is right about arm cartridge matching. Koetsu used to sell a rebranded Jelco back in the day.
@karmapolice what else is i n your music chain? what's ur turntable and phono stage? Have you a very dry system? a cool one? a warm one? I tried harbeth on the premise that they are match made in heaven for my Lavardin IT - i found it to be a bit boring and dull - that said - i must say they may not have been fully run in and the CD player was not as entertaining as my own.
That said - if you want to breathe warmth and colour into your system - go get a Koetsu.
Are you limited to one arm and cartridge? |
@mulveling is right about arm cartridge matching. Koetsu used to sell a rebranded Jelco back in the day.
@karmapolice what else is i n your music chain? what's ur turntable and phono stage? Have you a very dry system? a cool one? a warm one? I tried harbeth on the premise that they are match made in heaven for my Lavardin IT - i found it to be a bit boring and dull - that said - i must say they may not have been fully run in and the CD player was not as entertaining as my own.
That said - if you want to breathe warmth and colour into your system - go get a Koetsu.
Are you limited to one arm and cartridge? |
Going from 10 year-old memory of a system that’s seen a lot of change over the years, but I’m certain my friend Tom used and loved Koetsu RSP with Harbeth Super HL5 (original version?). He has a great ear and wouldn't like a system that was overly warm or unbalanced in any significant way. I heard those Harbeth, though I forget if he had the RSP yet or not, and they were very nice and musical, with excellent refinement and articulation at moderate listening volumes. Though, I’m not sure if they could rock out (didn’t try). I use Tannoy & Koetsu myself; very good for rocking out at loud volumes.
I know my friend missed the RSP after he moved on. I actually bought it off him. It’s an early 2000s vintage, supposedly one of the last that had any involvement from Sugano Sr. It sounds great, but I’ve also had a few modern stone platinum models, and like those slightly better - biggest difference is that stone bodies have more powerful bass. The modern platinum models are quite close to neutral, with good extension and speed, very satisfying bass, certainly not syrupy or slow, while retaining the trademark Koetsu midrange magic.
Anyways, I wouldn’t be as concerned with speaker/cartridge pairings as with cartridge/arm pairing, particularly in the case of Koetsu. They tend to like higher mass and fixed rigid bearings. E.g. avoid "pure" unipivots, avoid carbon fiber wands, etc. The VPI unipivot with dual-pivot add-on, and the heavily damped/stabilized Graham Phantom unipivot are both quite serviceable for Koetsu, though you can always do better with a used Fidelity Research FR64fx or 64S for not too much money.
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I recently did a search for a new cartridge for my system which includes Harbeth Super HL5+ speakers and the Aesthetix Mimas integrated amplifier. I use a Clearaudio Performance DC turntable. After listening to 10 different cartridges I settled on the AMG Teatro. It was the best cartridge I've heard at that price point, $2700. Based on the sound you are looking for it might be a great choice for you. There are a few reviews online that go into the specifics and may be worth a read.
At $4K you might want to look at the Clearaudio Stradivari v2. It's a bit more rich in the midrange than the AMG. Good Luck!
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Harbeth's are typically a warm sounding speaker ( nothing wrong with that, IMHO). Koetsu's are also a warm sounding cartridge. The Kleos is more resolving- and if set up correctly, more neutral than any Koetsu that I have heard.
I would think that for most the Koetsu/Harbeth match would be too warm and not resolved enough. |
The Lyra is not a romantic rich midrange for sure. I would roll some tubes in the phono stage long before I went cartrihunting unless of course it’s worn out.
disclosure, I run a Lyra but sold many and greatly appreciate Koetsu |
I was thinking koetsu rosewood signature or platinum...hopefully latter budgetwise...
I ask about it because my current cartridge is lyra kleos and its wonderfully transparent in my system. but perhaps a little richer warmer sounder cartridge might suit me better....
However harbeth a bit warm so dont want overdo it....
I guess will try to convince friend who has koetsu to bring over one day when pandemic less prevalent and not on his TT to hear it on my system |
The upper tier of Koetsu cartridges sound different from one another, at least to the point where it would be useful to know which Koetsu you have in mind. The commonly held conception about the mid-range priced Koetsu's is that they produce a lush midrange but lack bass oomph and can seem to sound a bit rolled off in the exteme treble. Is that what you have in mind? If so, maybe mating such a cartridge with a speaker that had similar character might be too much of a "good" thing, if your aim is midrange uber alles. But, as noted, that general description of a Koetsu does not hold for all of them, anything above Rosewood level, perhaps.
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Real curiosity here and at the risk of sounding dumb... I've never heard anyone ask about a mismatch between their speakers and cartridge.
Have you heard the Harbeths? If so, did you like their sound? What is it about them or your cartridge that you think might not work together?
I have Harbeth Super HL5 Plus and P3ESR and they sound great with every source I've used with them. |
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