Anyone heard the Alsyvox Botticelli planar speakers?
Full range ribbon tweeter/midrange and push-pull planar magnetic bass driver. 22Hz to 40kHz. 94 dB efficient due to all neo magnets. 260 lbs per speaker. Has garnered enthusiastic show reviews. BTW, "only $87k". Looks beautiful.
I should have never gotten involved in my dealers mess. I have better things to do. Rhapsody has the right idea, Going back to my own thread on WBF where one can get an idea of what my speakers sound like in a more civil environment.
rhapsody has a legitimate point, and I can’t blame him for not wanting to participate in this thread. This thread has veered way off course by trolling by a GTA dealer who is shilling GTA speakers at the expense of Alsyvox. And the manufacturer should reconsider the practices of his dealer on these threads. I ask the moderators to put an end to this. GTA should start their own thread and discuss the virtues of their speakers there. I don’t have any issues with the speakers themselves given their price point.
@maplegrovemusic The ad was placed in 7/19. This thread was started 11/18 long before decision was made to upgrade to the fantastic Alsyvox Caravaggio.
I contacted you before I knew you about your dealer. I did ask you if you offered discounts (I never specified how much btw) on your line of speakers because we had no planar ribbon speakers in our evaluation. If I can afford the Alsyvox, I can afford your speakers many times over. I personally think Alsyvox is hands down a technically superior speaker and built to tolerances you can only dream of. I have no ill will toward you or your dealer. But for you and your dealer to troll a thread I started on Alsyvox and other Alsyvox threads is pretty unethical. Why are you two so obsessed with Alsyvox? I don’t see you guys trolling other planar speakers. When a manufacturer trolls a thread on a competitor’s product, that is a red flag to all buyers and other manufacturers.
@gnjtack Are you so sure that your interests are being represented here, on this particular thread? I would have thought that this is not the case! By your dealer’s interjection into this thread, I would state that the first place you might want to look...is at your dealer.
@rhapsody Well to be perfectly fair, I think that the trolling of these threads seems to be just as prevalent here as at WBF. WBF, IME, has some of the least fair mods in the biz, and some of the most lenient when it comes to ad hominem attacks! I was attacked over there when I started my thread on the Alysvox speaker by all of the blindly besotted horn lovers...and no one did anything there about it at all! When I complained to the forum owner, he took it the wrong way and didn’t like the fact that I was asking for moderation. Either that, or he couldn’t risk upsetting his many horn lovers, and so I was banned, lol. At least here, the forum mods seem to be far more logical and reasonable in their assessments. IMHO.
This will be my last post here on this thread, I do not wish to be associated with it any longer.
If anyone would like to join informative Alsyvox threads where trolling is NOT permitted by the moderators come on over to WBF where there are several active Alsyvox threads.
maplegrovemusic..... The OP's intentions on generating buzz for a speaker he is selling is not my concern. My concern is his false statement towards my interests. Just wanted to tell my side of our encounter.
Greg, I don't hate anyone and your troll dealer, which is exactly what has occured with this thread, doesn't really bother me, as I stated. I enjoy it, it helps me.
It allows customers to choose what type of company that they would like to do business with, not from a technical/sonic perspetive but from a business and personal ethics perspective.
I do find it curious that you don't understand that trolling other threads is not welcome on pretty much any forum. But like you say it's a free country. Please do continue as you please.
@rhapsody I considered getting the GTA speakers and actually talked to the designer a couple of times about his design. However, after seeing faxers multiple shills on other forums, I decided I didn’t want to do business with a dealer like that.
In response to Gntjack -We have a post on what’s the Best Forum we have a sound insight Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/sounderinsight/ and GT Audioworks website as well. Our intention is not to hijack anybody’s blog But to get information out there for the audiophile to make an informed decision. I know there was a post by gntjack that characterizes what I am posting as shilling and therefore he personally knows people that have been so put off by this that they would not even hear the speakers. First off I do not believe him and secondly even if this accusation is true there are so many people who have contacted me who would’ve not even known about the GT speakers had I not posted in the first place - so therefore the risk reward benefit is clearly there and you know who wins the audiophile
As far as dracule1 indicating that we do not do the proper shows in order to have the speakers compared to the Aylsavox is clearly untrue. He completely overlooked the fact that we invited Aylsavox to this past Axpona and GuessWhat they did not show up nor did they contact us regarding being at the show. I also disagree with his comments regarding the fact the capital audio fest is a small show and it’s not worthy. This is clearly not the case all you need to do is take a look at the exhibitor list on the capital audio fest website and you’ll see that there are a ton of high-end manufacturers exhibiting at this event. This show is growing every year and is now taking on as the East Coast largest audio show. Again I am not here to shill but I am here to disseminate information - for the greater good of the audiophile community.
@gnjtack You make some good points. BUT like most folks who post on forums, I think you also jump to conclusions and read into posts things that may NOT necessarily be there! For example, i don’t believe that I stated anywhere that just because a product is priced higher it automatically means that it is better. I personally believe that price has absolutely NOTHING to do with performance. Now, lets discuss why it is one of your dealers feels the need to post on this Alsyvox thread. ( which as i mentioned in my post, has occurred with some of your dealers on other forums as well. BTW, it is I who has been banned from WBF...they don’t like alternate opinions over there, LOL!!) ). You offer a planar speaker that is, I suppose in your mind ( and maybe in reality too...that the jury is out on), a competitor to the aforementioned Alsyvox brand. After all they are both planar designs. Alternatively, your speaker is a competitor to the Alsyvox speaker. Now, the question becomes how much of a competitor are you to each other? I seriously doubt that either of you impacts the sales of the other!!! You stated that GTAW sells a fraction of what Alsyvox does. I would suggest that this is probably incorrect, why...because neither brand has much, or any, traction here in the USA...and I very highly doubt that either brand has much more traction anywhere else either!
As to my points about matching up a sub with a planar panel, you are correct, I have NOT heard your speaker design, and as such it is possible that I would NOT hear the blend...which would be a great thing. Is it likely that this is the case, unfortunately not, as I have heard the blend on absolutely 100% of all speakers that employ a planar design and a dynamic design subwoofer...and we are talking of quite a few combos like this over the many years.
Like i pointed out, if a shoot out could be arranged, this would be a very informative thing, and would certainly be of interest to hobbyists like myself. Would it seal the deal that one design and speaker is ALWAYS going to sound better than the other, no; but it would certainly be interesting.
Here’s a suggestion...since you want to increase your visibility and ’educate’ a’philes as to your product ( a worthy cause, please don’t get me wrong!). How about setting up some dealer shoot outs between your product and the many Maggie’s that are easy to a) acquire and b) located all over the country. Maybe even start at the top, your product vs. the similarly priced Maggie 30.7. Just a thought, LOL.
QUOTE... "I like it when Faxer does his shilling against Alsyvox. I've talked to about 10 people now that said they might have been interested in listening to the GT speakers, but said with the way this guy shills on forums they would NEVER consider purchasing from him.
He doesn't realize what harm he has already done to his brand.
Let him continue, fun watching someone shoot themselves in the foot.
*********************************************************************** Rhapsody, So you like watching my dealer (faxer) shoot himself in the foot. I am sure it amuses some on the forums. Hey It amuses me sometimes !
Sorry... he doesn't mean to ruin your Alsyvox fan club It's tough when you are small and unknown. He is just trying to get his voice heard over the din of opinions on the forums. Hey we all love to hate the troll, so go ahead be my guest.
BTW... If those 10 people you spoke of feel that way, I doubt they would have ever taken me seriously to begin with so nothing lost by his trolling.
If your speakers are so great and I am not saying they are not, then why not just create a post about your speakers and tell people about them and invite them to listen.
When you jump in other posts that were started for another brand it makes you look desperate.
QUOTE.... @faxer LOL, On every forum where the Alsyvox speaker is mentioned, you or another dealer post how great the GT speakers are. Somebody should organize a shoot-out between the two brands to actually determine whether you have a claim to naysay the Alsyvox’s. Albeit, the GT’s are a LOT less $$, but are they in the same league as the A’s?? Personally, if you have to use subs ( servo or otherwise) to augment your speaker, I believe you would be at a severe disadvantage from the gitgo! Getting the blend to be invisible with a sub/planar panel set up is almost impossible, IME. Nonetheless, a shoot-out would be instructive. ************************************************************************** daveyf...I wish it were so simple to get Alsyvox and my speakers in the same room on the same system.. I would jump at the opportunity for such a comparison...the result may introduce you to the reality that higher cost does not necessarily mean better performance.
Truth is you dont have to use subs with my speakers, they will perform quite nicely sans subs, I do this demo at shows quite a few times over the weekend. It demonstrates how well the subs integrate with the main speakers so when I switch them off if the music doesn't call for sub bass...the change is imperceptible. Of course when the music calls for sub bass these are much better equipped to do so than any planar driver. I design my drivers around the fact that planars are great at articulation and speed in the bass but not great at sub bass at high spl's, so why allow them to reproduce low bass it just messes up what they do so well in the mid and upper bass. Cones when implemented properly are much better at reproducing low bass. My design philosophy is let each driver do what it does best.
Your statement " I believe you would be at a severe disadvantage from the gitgo! Getting the blend to be invisible with a sub/planar panel set up is almost impossible" Tells me you've never heard my speakers and have no idea as to what they can or can't do.
Truth of the matter is...Alsyvox is an entity with deep pockets for worldwide exhibitions, GTAW is not. So it's doubtful I will ever show in Munich or abroad to make such a comparison. I am sure GTAW sells a fraction of the speakers as Alsyvox. The reason GTAW sells any at all is due to fact there are people out there who's #1 criteria for purchasing a speaker is not brand recognition but what they sound like. My customers understand there are always alternatives in life and whose decisions are not influenced by brand name recognition or heresay. For approximately $50K you can have a balls out speaker system for a lot less than Alsyvox's smallest offering.
@faxer Why would you invite Alsyvox to a small show like CAF? They were at RMAF just last week? And they were at Munich this summer, the largest audio show in the world. They also did shows in the Far East. They’re based in Spain so doing multiple international shows would be cost prohibitive. I don’t see you doing international shows. If you’re so eager, you should have exhibited at RMAF. You seem so desperate.
It is quite evident that I’m a dealer as I’ve indicated that we will be showing this speaker at our exhibit a Capital Audiofest under Sound Insight. No you’re incorrect I was never banned from what’s the best forum you’re spreading rumors.
This is a free country and I have a right to let the consumer or audiophile know Information regarding my product. The fact remains all I am asking is for the audiophile or consumer to listen to our product before purchasing any other product.
With all due respect you’re making assumptions about how the bass integrates with the panels without having any information as to the technology involved in achieving seamless integration or having heard our system. Specially the panels were designed to mate with the servo subs - therefore the panels by themselves play well into the 50hz region- therefore your ears are less sensitive by bass being reproduced below 80hz - that is why the THX standard specifies crossing over at 80hz or below. Most importantly there is a very sophisticated servo computer that is connected to every single open baffle woofer - the purpose of which pulls the woofer back to to its resting position to completely eliminate the overhang which causes the boom and thereby mimics the planar panels by dissipating this excess energy. Yes we want to educate the consumer so we post on various sites and let the consumer make informed choices. Additionally, Just because something costs incredible amount of money does not necessarily make them better or in a different league . FYI- We have contacted Aylsavox to bring their speakers to CAF. No response. We also exhibited at this past Axpona and invited Aylsavox to exhibit there as well. Well that never happened. No response from them as well.
@faxer LOL, On every forum where the Alsyvox speaker is mentioned, you or another dealer post how great the GT speakers are. Somebody should organize a shoot-out between the two brands to actually determine whether you have a claim to naysay the Alsyvox’s. Albeit, the GT’s are a LOT less $$, but are they in the same league as the A’s??? Personally, if you have to use subs ( servo or otherwise) to augment your speaker, I believe you would be at a severe disadvantage from the gitgo! Getting the blend to be invisible with a sub/planar panel set up is almost impossible, IME. Nonetheless, a shoot-out would be instructive.
The GT Audioworks Planar Speakers at a fraction of the cost under $30,000 must be auditioned in direct comparison to the Alsyavox. The materials and construction in the speaker is second to none. Most important is that the membrane is proprietary unlike Aylsavox which is simply aluminum which is placed on top of plastic. GT Speakers feature pure copper traces as well not aluminum. Overtime aluminum is a very poor surface to solder and these aluminum solder joints will become loose. Additionally the speakers will also be far more transparent as they feature no crossover on the main 6 foot panel.There is just too much to list here in terms of the design and construction materials utilized in the speaker. The Servo Subs can be purchased starting at 2:12 inch subs per side and go up to six per side. The customer can additional Servo Subs as well. We will be at capital audio fest on November 1-3 please visit us in the Frederick room in the Hilton in Rockville Maryland. We have sold many systems across the United States and have testimonials from our customers they are available upon request. Please click the below link: https://youtu.be/2ZgRiAdbDNw
I, too, was amazed at what I heard in that room. The purity of the Sanders ESL's but without positional constraint. Effortless is a very appropriate description. I am a planar lover, and these are the only speakers I have ever heard that bettered the original Apogee, to my ears.
@tonix The Leonardo was differed from the Botticelli in that it didn't have a full length ribbon super tweeter. Instead, there was a piezoelectric super tweeter on the back of the panel, which according to the designer was less desirable that than the full length ribbon super tweeter of the Botticelli. There were differences in the cross over design too I think. Interestingly, the Leonardo was slightly heavier.
As I said in my post dated 9/10 I still feel I am spot on with my assessment but your MMV. I have owned the speakers and played them in a smaller room measuring 15X19X9 and now 17X35X9. The smaller room was much harder to tame due to these speakers serious dynamic capabilities and frequency extension.....but it can be done well also. The Tintoretto would work best in the smaller room. The larger room is ideal IMO for either model and I have many hours of listening experience now in this room ad 35 years of listening experience to others. I might also mention that due to the speakers ease to drive and ribbon technology they play softly without losing their magic......I use this feature a lot and still get the soundstaging, extension, and emotion. Not many speakers I have owned before these would do this except for some horns and they had more coloration and way less accurate soundstage capability. Your ears will love this feature of the Alsyvox in a matched room. There are many electronic choices these speakers will play with but for me a 29X35X14 room was not ideal and not by choice of the manufacturer but all that was available. As mentioned I bought my speakers based on the 20X25 room from last year RMAF 2018......the speakers will play beyond belief regardless of where they are located as many discovered in the RMAF 2019 room. As Rhapsody has mentioned music appeal is subject to personal tastes and mood reflections and let us just be grateful for so many choices to accomplish our goals and room requirements.
It
looks also that these Leonardo costed about the half and sounded the
same (reading italian reports on how they sounded I read the same words of previous comments here).
I went into the Alsyvox room on Friday and then again on Sunday. Both times the sound was drive me out of the room harsh and strident. I happen to like Magnepans, so I assumed these speakers would be great. It could have been the electronics, Omega Audio Concepts. I don't know anything about this line of electronics and their website tells me basically nothing. But, no, not an impressive demo.
With a good setup s lot of what one hears can be attributed to the recording and all recordings vary so always be wary of sound assessments good or bad based only on a very limited sample.
No doubt about it the room was not ideal. I never said the room was ideal. It was an enormous room with no treatment.
Only one post was it mentioned that the highs were "tipped up" and the bass was wandering. Probably to them it was, who knows? We ALL hear differenntly. Who knows what recording was on when they listened, where they were sitting etc.
Here is Rober H’s (AS) comment on the room.
The full-range planar magnetic Alsyvox($89,000) from Spain was stunningly great, with the lifelike transient performance that only planar designs can deliver.
I can point to almost 30+ posts at this point that thought the sound was mesmerizing. Only one said the sound was "tipped up" and several people thought the room to be too big.
On the flip side, I think I mentioned it prior, I am in conversations with actual buyers that heard the speakers in the room and are seriously consdidering purchase of one of the models.
So if we have many people wanting to purchase and MANY people calling the room Best of Show OR one of the Best of Shows then for me I will sign up for the exact same room next year.
Again, different strokes for differernt folks and I always respect others opinions and preferences.
I also love to discuss the sound and the room with folks who visited the room, like the person that for them the bass was wandering and the highs were tipped up. That’s an interesting conversation and I take no excption with their opinion.
On the other hand discussing the sound and the room with anyone that was not in the room or did not hear the sound personally but are going by what other’s have said is totally fine for anyone to do, I am just not personally interested in engaging in these conversations.
Btw, we are thinking on bringing the Tintorettos to Axpona in a regular, small room driven with tubes....stay tuned. The reality is the Alsyvox speakers can play to large and small rooms as well as with tubes (30 Watts) or SS ( 50 Watts plus).
@rhapsody What I am trying to point out is the fact that if a speaker demo has people point out "issues" and that demo is done in a room that is "enormous"; then most times a lot of those very same "issues" can be attributed to the room. Since there has been some ’noise’ that the speakers in this room were ’slightly’ less able in the very high frequencies ( " they were tipped up") and the bass was heard to be "occasionally wondering"...this would certainly point to a room interaction.
Just like it can be difficult to dial in a speaker into too small a room, the same can be said for too large a room. Both offer their challenges. Now whether you (or other folk who you link to) actually heard the issue with this particular room at RMAF is another discussion. But my money is on those who have commented that the room ( ballroom??) was NOT ideal.
Excellent Review Franklin – this was my pick for Best Sound at the show.
I was really blown away with their ability to play with authority in that enormous room with ease. Material of all kinds were handled with aplomb.
Glad you liked them also.
Mark
I can't keep track of the overwhelming commnents and posts from lover's of the RMAF room.
Just making sure that people understand that the room or sound may not have been to everyone's liking BUT there was NOTHING wrong with the room or the sonic presentation to the VAST majority of our room visitors. That is certain.
YES, no doubt about it the room was ENORMOUS!!! We were concerned about it prior to setting up and listening.
Here are a few comments from people that heard the system/room at the below links.
The one thing I would say is that I am used to a BIG room with a 20’+ wide soundstage. I feel that this is the size of a real soundstage and my room has this similar size. If you have 5 or more musicians spread out it takes 20’.
For those and there are MANY that are NOT accustomed to such a large soundstage and sound I believe that it just seems too big to them. They are not used to it and might not even like it because it’s so big.
I can also say that when you play tubes ie, Jadis, you get a more realistic 3D holographic soundstage and the sound is more natural than with SS.
I like both the tube and SS presetations equally, they are just different.
Additionaly, everyone is not a planar/ribbon person. Some will like the look/sound, many won't. Our experience is that a LOT of people like Alsyvox and at this particular we never heard one criticism during the 4 days, basically just rave comments. But then on the forums you will find comments from those who preferred other systems/rooms. That's just normal and not an issue for me anyway. Different strokes for different folks. It's all good, just so people are happy.
I heard that these at the RMAF 2018. Best speakers I’ve ever heard. Sound stage was life size and tangible. Close your eyes and they were in the room real. Zero faults.
@rhapsody Looking at that room, you are asking a lot of any speaker to sound exemplary while dealing with the various issues that a room of those dimensions elicits. If the Alsyvox had any issues, I would think they could be laid at the feet of the room...and its acoustics, or lack thereof. Personally, I wouldn’t want to demo a pair of speakers in a room of that size and dimension....whether it be a horn, a dynamic, or a Planar. Same thing as I witnessed a few years ago, when Magico were demoing their then as new S7’s, in a room that doubled as a full size ballroom! Regardless of how one likes or dislikes the speakers from Magico...the room killed the speaker in that particular demo. Maybe next time, a smaller...more manageable room at RMAF?
Everyone has a personal preference and opinion and that is always respected by me. The whole audio hobby is subjective.
I would like to say that I worked the Alsyvox room at RMAF and I never engaged with so many people that LOVED the sound of system/room.
You can look at some other forums where several have called the room and the sound AMAZING and many people felt the room was best of show.
I met hundreds of people during RMAF and right now I am in conversations with 5+ customers who are considering purchasing either Tintorettos or Botticellis, each person basing their buying decisions on what they heard at the show.
Many people don't gravitate to a large room. I personally loved the room and the sound and would sign up for the same room next year.
I just want to paint an accurate picture as there was NOTHING wrong with room/sound to the vast majority of attendees that visited our room.
Of course there will always be exceptions and again total respect for everyone's opinion.
If someone did not personally hear/visit the room then honestly their opinion or comments are not very valuable to me personally.
To those folks above that think these speakers have the mentioned negative issues you are entitled to your thoughts and I respect you for it. However with that said, I have my speakers set up in in much more customary room setting (17X35), have different electronics, CAT preamp. (tubes) paired to Concert Fidelity ZL120SEv2 (known for musicality), and Purist Audio all copper Neptune Luminist cabling, and a T/A MP3100HV source. The room at RMAF was not by choice but was all that Alsyvox could get to attend the show. The designer had concerns of its room size (29X35) before getting there and the speakers needed a narrower room with a lower ceiling height to perform their best. I was grateful they were able to attend! Simply put the room was too big for a lot of speakers and with its live character it needed some acoustic treatment. However, there was no way to drag ASC panels etc. from Spain. The electronics were far different from what I own (although be they are excellent) and the cabling was silver-coated copper. I invite you to Nebraska to really hear these speakers in a dedicated correctly sized room with none of the above mentioned issues you associated with the show condition room. The speakers at the last 2018 RMAF show were a completely different animal in a room (20X25) with the same electronics and I purchased mine from hearing them shortly after that show. Trust me, they are best I have experienced in 35 years in audio and I have owned more speakers than I care to mention. These speakers can be a real endgame source given non-show conditions. Last, someone must have liked the room, knowing the room was the issue, as several on the WBF and above stated it was the best of show room but also commented the room.
@gwalt -- lucky man! What electronics do you use?I tried my own amp (a Symphonic Line Kraft 250 class A) on the smaller pair and the sound was full, clear & detailed, with realistic speed and sufficient upper bass — albeit, in a treated room.
@goose Could it be the huge room that the Bott's were being demo'ed in? I heard that this room had minimal acoustic treatment and was a very tough room. Another thought, the electronics? I personally would NOT discount these speakers based on a demo that you heard at a show...and in the particular room that you heard them in.
Well I will probably get some flak for my comments but what the heck. I listened to them several times RMAF. They had that open sound as expected but the treble was tipped up and almost / was unlistenable on several cuts that I'm familiar with. The bass was wandering at times. It wouldn't be on my list for a speaker in that price range. My audio buddy had similar thoughts so I don't think it was just me. There were other speakers that I would consider before these.
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