Start here ---
http://www.sa-cd.net/ |
I wanted to get the SACD of Deep Purple - Machine Head but was not able to find it online, Amazon.com had it but it was a long wait. I found it at Amazon UK and ordered it along with Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms ltd edition digipack SACD. When they ship internationally they minus the VAT of 17.5 percent and if you order it to be shipped out to the US by normal mail it turns out a lot cheaper in the bargain.
Hope someone finds this to be useful |
Dual Disc, huh? I bought one, only to find it doesn't play in my Cary 303/300. I then read the INSIDE of the box, which says the disc may not play on "some" (read: high end) CD players. Would've been nice to have that warning, oh, I dunno, ON THE OUTSIDE, MAYBE? |
Ben did you really tried SACD? I mean seriously? |
Jayctoy-I've already stated elsewhere I will not enter into anymore SACD debates on here.
I still have a $800 Sony SACD/DVD player and have owned somewhere in the region of 30 SACD's.
I don't know how serious that is in relative terms.
However my time spent on Audiogon over time really just confirms I don't actually view music the same as many on here.
Hence my limited inputs these days. |
Jayctoy must you drag this skeleton thread out of the closet.
Ben we or I anyway still enjoy your input. It would be boring if everyone had the same opinion. Flaming arrows don't hurt as bad on a forum as they do in person. Just good old debating ;) |
Rob I dont have any intention of hurting Bens feelings
or you, I am really, really wondering, if Ben tried it,
because SACD to me is the best thing that have happened
in audio,think about this? Me myself I enjoy SACD,
because I tried hard enough, to make things work, find
the right player to prove it,If I will read this thread
now, not having tried the format, then I will lost the
chance of having good music, because I will not try it.
I dont think SACD is dead, its still alive and breathing,
lets say it will, It really does not matter, I already have
500 SACDs.I just thought we have to be careful in assuming
SACD is dead, I go to MUSIC DIRECT and I see shelves
after shelves od SACDs, you go to best Buy you dont find
that many, because that is not the right place to
get them, they do carry small amount,if you live in
Chicago go to Music Direct and you will never feel SACD
is dead,Sorry if I offended you Rob,back to SACD peace. |
Ben thank you for answering my question, apology as well
if I offended you,enjoy the music.Thanks
Bon |
I used to be strictly into analog...but the cary 306 sacd player has changed all that.I hope SACD stays around for long long time.Plan to buy as many titles as i can.... |
I absolutely love SACD when I by chance buy one that has been recorded and produced with skill and emotion. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those I've purchased have disappointed me, especially since most of them cost at least $18. I'm not at all pleased by the limited and narrow choices (titles/genres) available to me, so I'm thankful that I'm pleased by how my player handles RedBk CDs. I do enjoy some classical music (though mostly violin and piano), as well as some classic jazz, but I'd love to buy some Charlie Hunter on SACD, as well as John Scofield, Kirk Whalum, and David Sánchez ... if the discs have been produced by people who care.
If the format is to gain wider appeal, some changes have to be made. |
jactoy, no offense taken at all.
arkprof, I don't think it will gain wider appeal. This is it, audiophiles only, but it isn't going away. New titles are coming out. You can still get SACDs just like you can get the abandoned HDCD. If it were to disappear (which it won't becuase there isn't a better digital format even on the horizon), it would take about 15 years to happen. So, no worries. New stuff will come out recorded with pure DSD, not the crappy remakes. SACD isn't the end all of formats and won't last forever but neither will redbook. I think LPs might though. |
Robm321: You're on the mark. I still pursue SACD, but today it was pure RedBook. I've got a Shanling, and it seems to do well with RdBks ... at least I enjoy what I hear ... very much. Recently I had Wadia 301 and then a 302 ... and I didn't enjoy the what I was hearing. Okay players, I think, but something wasn't working.
Must admit, my Pass has been replaced with a tube integrated and my Linbrooks were replaced by SuperAbbys and one Bailey. I love these Cains! Open, huge, involving, "musical" ... music like it should be! |
One thing I don't understand. All SACDs that are being released now-a-days can be played back on regular CD players. So why does the record industry not produce SACD ONLY? That way people will be exposed to SACDs and they might discover the benefits that SACD has over regular CD.
This thought came when I was hearing the Ravel-Bolero last night. The Rapsodie Espagnole is absolutely stunning..I get floored evertime I listen to it. Yeah, like someone above mentioned..not all SACD recordings make night-day difference when compared to a CD. |
the sales of sacd are not supporting the format's future plain and simple. digital downloading, the redbook cd(and lps made in 'very,very small runs' is the future business model. |
sacd hardware sales have been so small(in the scheme of things)that there is no need for a graceful exit. the music companies are driven by revenue,nothing more. |
8 tracks, beta, audio cassettes, VHS, SACD.
Get the picture? |
Stanhifi,
"8 tracks, beta, audio cassettes, VHS"
they've been extinct for a long time but they can still be purchased. You can get 8 tracks on the internet or at second hand stores on the cheap, audio cassettes are still in some record stores, vhs is still in stores although not the main video format anymore, and beta is still used in cameras and can be purchased on the internet.
So, I guess your point is that SACD's will be available for a long time? |
>>So, I guess your point is that SACD's will be available for a long time?<<
LOL but yes they may be around for a long time but not as the format of choice.
Longevity is no indicator of superior performance. If that were the case my 69 Olds 442 would kick a new Mustang GT's butt in the 1/4 mile. Guess what? Not!!
The popularity of 8 tracks, beta and all of the other outdated formats (including SACD soon) is based primarily on nostalgia. Many folks find comfort in the past. I hope that helps you understand better. |
Jaybo/Stanhifi, I don't think SACD will die soon. I can clearly remember how Panasonic's DCC died. MD is not much in the US market, but is going strong elsewhere. And if you look at SACD, then more and more albums are getting released. Also, there are a number of SACD players that are being released. Maybe the target audience is less, but it is not a sign of dying. I understand your point on how the industry works. I hope (I said "hope"..don't miss that) that they press hybrid SACDs and sell them at regular CD price.
We all should be focusing on topics of promoting how good and beneficial SACD is rather than how soon it is going to die. I liked this format so much that instead of buying a universal player, I purchased a SACD only player. |
i work for a record label. trust me, its as good as gone. the hi end manufactureres have ignored the pull-back and continued to court the consumer |
>>We all should be focusing on topics of promoting how good and beneficial SACD is<<
"We" should? Why? Are "we" in the trade?
>>Maybe the target audience is less, but it is not a sign of dying.<<
???????? Really?
>>I liked this format so much that instead of buying a universal player, I purchased a SACD only player.<<
Tons of folks liked Beta too and we all know that history. |
"We" are the knowlegeable audio enthusiast or audiophiles."We" are not pessimists. If you can educate the non-audio enthusiasts (like your friends, cousins, etc), it makes a lot of sense. People really don't know about this hobby. But when they listen to good audio, you have a chance to invoke their interest. I have converted atleast 3 friends to audio enthusiasts who now own and enjoy hi-fi.
BTW, Beta only did Beta. SACD players can do both SACD and RBCD :-) |
I just bought another SACD today at Fry's electronics. Pure DSD. I love it. I'll enjoy the price drops if it does die - just like the $1 lp's from second had stores.
Ultimately though, I'll keep getting LPs and SACD/Redbook will still be batter up to LP. Oh yeah, LPs were supposed to die in the 80s. I guess it's night of the living dead at my place. Or should I get into the next big thing --> MP3? |
Stanhifi this is not even a good comparison to the
beta you are talking about,I agree with Milpai, if
He likes SACD and enjoy it, why not support it?
Stan do you like SACD or do you even have a good
SACD player to listen,how good is SACD is? I am just
asking,because your system is not posted yet.Have
you been to MusicDirect and see How many SACD
they are selling?If you go there,your opinion will
change.I dont mean to often you really? I enjoy some
of your post though, I just happen to agree with Milpai. |
>>Have you been to MusicDirect and see How many SACD
they are selling?
My local Chevrolet dealer has a lot of Chevrolets for sale but I have no idea how many he is actually selling. Nice try though.
I enjoy your posts as well. |
there were literally hundreds of millions of lps around the world when the industry pulled the plug. the specialty companies that keep the lp alive (on a purely boutique basis) with new pressings, are only manufacturing 500 to 1500 of each title globally. its truly a labor of love. the sacd format, on the other hand, is stillborn. the titles being released now and in the immediate future were already in the pipeline. the hybrid releases where the last attempt to attract the consumer, and the fact is over 99% on those discs never see an sacd player. in fact over 60% never see any kind of conventional home stereo. its way too late to convert people to this hobby 3 at a time. |
Are we talking 2 channel SACD? |
Jaybo, I am refering to "audio" as a hobby..not SACD. I like the SACD sound. But I think people in general do "passive" listening. That is what is killing the hobby. With the fast pace of today's world they feel, that active listening is wha they cannot do. I am saying that invite such people to your home and have just 1 session. It is highly possible that you will invoke their interest. You cannot force anyone...but you have a fair chance of letting them "hear and see" what real music sounds like. (Yeah "see"..that is what 1 friend felt when I made him listen to Bolero SACD). Try it out..you have nothing to loose. |
milpai_i didn't mean to be flipant. its just that of the hundreds of music collectors i know, only one other than myself even cares about hi end. more hi end companies will go belly up this year, than the last five combined. |
Jaybo,
This has always been a small community. Why would the lack of the non-audiophile general public effect this hobby now?
I know chicken little is coming to theaters this weekend, but why are you stating that "the sky is falling"? The general public has never supported any audiophile companies, so why would they go bellyup? |
Jaybo, I get subscription mails from Acousticsounds.com every week (sometimes twice), where they list all the LPS, SACDs, DVD-A, etc that are newly released. The list has not stop nor dwindling as of now. So it remains to be seen, how many companies will pull the plug.
Robm321 - as you rightly said, this is indeed a small community. And I can hope that it grows with time. I keep supporting this format that takes me close to LP. This month's purchase - Alison Krauss(Now That I've Found You), Spyro Gyra (IN MODERN TIMES), STRAVINSKY/THE FIREBIRD, BARTOK/CONCERTO FOR ORCHESTRA - all SACDs :-) |
I noticed Best Buy removed the SACS special section but discovered on my own that they just blended them in to the CD section like Barnes & Noble and Borders does. |
I agree SACD continues to grow with more releases coming out almost daily. And prbably more important in its survival is that it is getting support from the hardware folks with more and more universal players becoming available.
I really enjoy SACD and support it whenever I can it just sounds better than standard redbook in the majority of cases and is very close to vinyl without the noise and maintenance hassles.
Chuck |
Fight the good fight. Borders, Barnes and Noble, and Best Buy will NEVER cater to those who seek quality. The SACD re-masters will come, but from other places. And it will be worth it. Stay the course. Keep your SACD player. There will be plenty to choose from, as long as your musical taste isn't pigeonholed into one small genre.
Cheers.
|
I love SACD when the recording is superlative, but I'm totally tired of paying higher prices for product that too often just doesn't rise to the occasion. When it's right, SACD is totally inspiring. When it isn't, I grumble about paying premium dollars for something that fails to thrill. |
arkprof,
That's why I buy SACDs that are pure DSD. Don't get remakes of old recordings on SACD unless they are remastered. Go for RB in that case. You gotta work with the system... ;) |
the sacd's that are coming out(including hybrids) have already been committed to(particularly from the major labels. the windows for production, manufacturing and marketing are typically 10 to 18 moths before street. a small community indeed in its heyday bozak (a well regarded, and expensive at the time, audiophile speaker) sold in excess of 20,000 pairs a year. very few hi end speaker companies even come close to that today. if they do its bcause they are exporting the lions share of their inventory abroad. in bozak's heyday those sales were primarily in the u.s. only. the avg worldwide audiophile- grade vinyl run (per title) has just dropped below 900. i long way from the 5k and higher mf did per title less than a decade ago. |
Jaybo,
Yeah that was mentioned in an earlier post, maybe by you. The newer realeases may be from an earlier pipeline, but the SACD recording won't stop coming out next year like you aniticipate (10-18 months)IMHO. So, basically you are saying that next year there will be 0 releases since this is just pipeline residuals?
There are other companies doing vinyl, not just MF. Companies go up, down, out of business, and back in business. That doesn't give the overall market condition - just a number on a company.
Also, what are your stats on redbook. RB sales have been going down as well because of online trading and mp3 player growth. Is redbook dying too? How come your not making that statement also? |
JAYBO...what do the manufactures say?Are you just speculating or do you have definitive information.Honestly after hearing how good the cary 306 sacd is.I'm having hard time justifying keeping my analog frontend. |
SACD (hybrid) will continue to be supported by the smaller labels for the foreseeable future as well as by the hardware manufacturers.
Chuck |
i have worked in product developement for several 'big' indies for the last decade. i also have friends at uni wea, and sony.... its outa here. the focus is all on upgrading(milking)number51 redbook and the internet. |
So Jaybo what's the outlook for redbook? Sales going up? Or is that dying too, and where's the thread about redbook dying?
just wondering. |
JAYBO...thanks for your info.I don't question that you have heard this from Industry insiders.I just wish we had more definitive info. from other sources...certainly companies that produce SACD frontends would also have access to info. regarding future SACD releases or lack of them.and yet they continue to invest in R&D and market new SACD players. ???
|
I love sacd. I even love the rounded jewellery case -prevents me from poking my eyes out and provokes my non audiophile friends into conversation. When expecting guests, I'll scatter them about.
Audiophiles are pretty much the only ones to buy sacd, wouldn't you agree? Most people buy a regular c.d. player, (unless they bought an sacd player by accident) buy regular c.d's and 'that's good enough for them'. They are satisfied. They really don't care. Example, a buddy of mine (I stress only a buddy) exclaimed "What's wrong with my $100 c.d.player? It sounds as good as yours" (Oh, that's also $100 cdn., too) The source? Sony SCD-1. The sacd? Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon. What a muppet! I swear he reminded me of the monkeys at the beginning of Stanley Kubriks 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Let's face it -audiophiles are a rare breed and most other people are probably more visually inclined than aurally. Perhaps if sacd looked different, the masses would catch on. And, to the audiophiles that claim it is dying (again, I don't think it will ever be mainstream but I don't think it will die, at least not as long as people are willing to pay $30,000 for 'a stereo') I think it's just a sense of pouty arrogance. You know, "...oh, nothing they can ever come up with will please us..."
Just my 2 cents worth. |
October 28th 2005
News from Sonys Super Audio CD Business Centre in Japan indicates that the format continues to grow and attract new supporters. Analysts highlight a global trend linking increased demand for SA-CD compatible players with people investing in HD ready home theatre systems. Super Audio CD is established as the hi-res package medium in the HiFi audio market, commented Yushi Igarashi, Project Manager, Sony Audio Groups Super Audio CD Project. There are over 10 million players in circulation worldwide and the rapid growth in home theatre systems sales is the single largest factor boosting hardware sales.
There are more than 30 manufacturers worldwide developing Super Audio CD playback capabilities in their consumer equipment. In total there are over 150 different models offering the broadest range of price points and model types from HiFi components to combination DVD-Video players, home theatre systems and a new generation of Integrated Digital Televisions. The launch next year of Sonys PlayStation 3, complete with Super Audio CD playback capabilities, is predicted to create another boost in Super Audio CD sales. Market growth estimates indicate that Super Audio CD hardware sales are increasing at their fastest rate ever since the formats introduction in 1999. Equipment manufacturers include a strong combination of AV brands, such as Philips, Pioneer, Sharp, Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo as well as leading audiophile developers, including Accuphase, Linn, Classe, Esoteric, dCS and EMM.
On the software side growth in Super Audio CD releases remains strong with an average of 250 new albums being released each quarter since September 2003. At the end of September 2005 there were 3,288 Super Audio CD titles listed on leading website www.sa-cd.net. The biggest contributor to new Super Audio CD releases is the independent sector with record labels such as Telarc (137), Pentatone (84) and Octavia (84) supporting large and growing Super Audio CD catalogues. Also, the multinationals reflect this growth with SonyBMG (663), UMG (451) and EMI (72) looking to develop their hi-res catalogues.
2004 saw more than 1000 new album titles released on SA-CD and at the same time replication volumes continue to grow, year on year. Growth has been strongest in the jazz and classical sectors, which together account for 63 per cent of all SA-CD releases as well as being the strongest sector in hardware sales. Jazz and classical music lovers have been the first to recognise and appreciate the added value that Super Audio CD offers to their home listening, explained Yushi Igarashi. Traditionally, these two sectors represent some of the most discerning consumers and they have recognised the long-term potential that Super Audio CD offers, particularly in a High Definition home entertainment environment. As we progress further into the HD era we are confident that Super
Audio CD will become a cornerstone in home entertainment the audio equivalent of HDTV. |
I too wish more of the music I want to purchase were being remastered or recorded on SACD. Sony will have SACD with their Playstation 3, which is sure to be a hit, and I have no doubts SACD playback will be included in the Blu-Ray Hi-Def DVD players - developed by Sony -that will be released. Word is Blu-ray is gaining traction as the predominent format over the rival HD-DVD camp. Obviously, these have yet to come to pass but writing off the format entirely seems very premature! My 2 cents - Tony |
Great info....TREYHOSS....Thank you |
Treyhoss, you THE MAN of the hour. Thank you for this wonderful info. What site is this listed on? Would like to get that link, to the site. I am facing-off 2 more guys at audioasylum.com, who told me that major audio magazines say SACD is dead. Sad part is that one of them is a Vinly lover and doesn't have a SACD player. I did not want to say this, but sometimes I feel that these guys feel that their LP turf is being treaded upon by SACD. |
the industry goal at the moment is to get redbook to stablize. a flatline in sales for one would be good news. there is an lp revival with younger music 'collectors', but the real marketplace for this is primarily 'used' stuff and does the artists and the labels no good at this point.. new pressings(though small) are hopefully going to grow beyond the audiophile community. the focus for growth is currently on the web with music services. i hate this (personally) because it represents the end the the long playing album as an artform. enjoy music for music...recordings for rcordings.....songs for songs.....don't get caught up with which media is superior or will survive. i've gotta room filled with laserdiscs and i'm thrilled to own every one of them. i even collect the stones on 45 and reel to reel. there is nothing as viseral as 'have you seen your mother baby, standing in the shadow?' coming off a slightly noisey 45 rpm piece of vinyl. it was the way it was meant to be heard and enjoyed. the formats mean nothing, even in the hi end hobby......feeding your soul does. |
Sony will have SACD with their Playstation 3? (thanks treyhoss) - any of you doom and gloomers care to address that? |
