Am i missing something without a power conditioner?
I need your advice on power conditioners. I know there is alot talked about with power conditioners. But let me explain my situation and what i have. First and foremost i upgraded all my stock power cords. I am using and have a Krell FPB 600 amp with a Shunyata Research Sigma HC power cord. I am using and have an Audio Research Ref 6 preamp with a Shunyata King Cobra Helix CX power cord. And have a Rega ISIS cd player with a Shunyata Sigma digital power cord. I have 1 dedicated 20 amp line with a 4 plug 20 amp wall outlet that my amp and preamp plug into. My question is with these high quality power cords do i still need a power conditioner?
Ralph, very few real audiophiles want an industrial, discontinued power regenerator, especially one that would or might need service from a company that really doesn't care about the consumer market way too impractical.
Also we have tested regenerators from Exact Power and PS Audio and none of them made systems sound as good as the best passives.
As per Transparent, never cared for their power products cable companies generally don't make the best power conditioners.
Companies like Isotek do not sell anything other than AC products generally make the best power products.
As per CPT we haven't tested them yet, there are people who seem to think that they are good.
My question is with these high quality power cords do i still need a power conditioner?
Power cords do not do any power conditioning.
The best power conditioners were made by a company called Elgar. You can find them on ebay; the 3000 and 6000 series are likely the most practical for audiophiles. The 3000 series can run 28 amps continuous and so can handle some pretty large systems. Because of their age, they will likely need some service.
These conditioners are so much better than anything offered to high end audio that its really a bit of an embarrassment. At full power they can deliver a sine wave with only 0.25%THD and they can regulate line voltage without limiting current within their ratings.
I second Core Power Tech units I used a few cheaper units, names withheld as irrelevant but when I moved up to the CPT1800 it was a real eye opener. Previously with other units I still had occasional dips in power depending on the mains supply and even sometimes when my ac kicked in. With the CPT1800, nothing has ever dropped out since. And I have EVERYTHING plugged into its 8 outlets, amp, tt, phono, tape deck the lot. On previous units with the amp plugged in there was a slightly detectable softening of the music, on the CPT everything is etched as though in living colour! No I do not mean forward or bright but just completely alive and open. The only caveat on the CPT is getting hold of one....lol
you probably should try one.....only with the ability to return it. I tried many, they always changed the tonality with an increase in something wrong. You'll only hear the bugs after listening for awhile.
@tattooedtrackman, Here is an affordable unit you could find used on Audiogon etc, or buy new at a discounted price. Find a Core Power Technologies CPT 300 which has an attached power cord that works well and attach it to a power strip. This will give you balanced power and if you plug your front end components into it (not your amp) it will assist and give you a much quieter background yielding more details and depth to your music. BTW; one of the power conditioners I use is the Shunyata Research Denali D2000/T.
In audiophile terms it could be a dramatic, never going back, veils removing, you'd have to be deaf not to hear it change. Or, it could be very subtle and possibly not even a positive change. As others have pointed out it can be very system dependent. Based upon your comments I would recommend you not go in the direction of power conditioners. Picking the right conditioner (for you) and pairing it with the right power cord will be a time consuming endeavor. Unless you really want to play with the equipment, why bother?
I will vouch for the Isotek Syncro. I paired one with an Isotek Aquarius EVO3 so that the Syncro feeds the juice to the Aquarius which in turn provides 6 outlets. I got both for about $4K new with a discount. But I was warned and I stand by the adage that with power conditioners, everything is system-dependent including the variables of locale and power coming into the house. I recently had an electrician over at the house to install additional dedicated lines into my listening room. We got to talking about isolation transformers and subpanels and fancy breaker switches and he was quite knowledgeable about all of these things and basically thought they were all unnecessary or overkill other than maybe a smaller isolation transformer in the listening room. He stressed that the major determinant of clean power is where you are in relation to the closest outdoor power transformer and how or if your neighbors are polluting the power before it comes to you.
Tattoed, sometimes another Shunyatta may not be the answer. Shunyatta s products tend to add a lot of warmth which may or may not be exactly what you want.
We have found a mind blowing way of making a system a lot better for less than $3,500.00
Isotek makes the Syncro a power cord with an active power conditioner built in, the Syncro removes any stray DC on the line, and wow you can easily hear what is does, they are $2,000.00 get a passive distribution box like a Furutech FT 609 and you will be out for a $1,000.00 less with a more neutral power improvement solution and you can upgrade from the Furutech to an even better power box later.
The Syncro has made a huge improvement in every power conditioner and system we have tried it with.
Well i really love my Shunyata power cords. And i definitely hear a difference. With that being said i was thinking about a used shunyata Deloni 2000t for about $2000 but then i would need a power cord for it. And knowing me it would have to be a Shunyata.. Depending on how much i am willing to spend on the PC , That might be another $ 1200 to $ 1500. So know we are up to about $3500. The more i think about it the more it would not be worth maybe the small amount of sonic improvement vs the $. I really have some great PCs already and i think ill stick with that for now..
Power conditioners are one of the most under apperciated and best things you can do for a system.
We have been doing this for over 30 years and have seen the countless times that adding a good power conditioner has made a stunning improvement in realism to a system.
We have also tried many of the major brands searching for the most effective units that would fit most of our clients systems.
We have tested over the years, Richard Gray, Exact power, Silver Circle, Audience, Shunyata, Isotek Gen 2, Isotek Gen 3, Audio Magic, PS Audio, Audioquest, Running Springs and I am sure a few others we have forgotten.
We are also running dedicated 20 amp lines with Furutech outlets as well.
Long story short the right power conditioner opens up a system's soundstage width and depth, lowers apparent noise blacker blacks, tightens up bass and aids in hearing and apperciating micro dynamics.
So in our tests even with really expensive power cords the right power conditioner makes a huge improvement.
Like others said, you just have to try. I initially started by buying a used Audience AR1p (i think) for a couple of hundred. I plugged it into the wall and plugged my Wiremold power strip into it and I was very pleased with the result. So much so, I ended up with an AR6T that I’ve had since about 2009 with no regrets. I don’t follow the classifieds much, but I have seen AR6s (non-teflon) up at fabulous prices and it’s a first-class item, even without the T-caps. Maybe try one and check it out. In fact, there is a 6T up for 2k, which is really a good price. I know it's a lot of money, but cheap power conditioners can really ruin a system. Good luck.
Unfortunately, you ask an open-ended question that is system dependent and the only way to know if you will hear improvement is to try it and judge for yourself. With that said, depending on which power conditioner you might try, results will vary. I believe that most likely with a power conditioner you will be able to hear more micro details however the percentage of improvement vs the cash outlay for the power conditioner might be marginal. I have four different types of power conditioners that I retate between two different systems and I hear improvement with all of them.
courant . My power - station PSE&G is very stable. Very rarely will there even be a black out ,even in most severe storms. My 20 amp line connects to my breaker box. Also you say that there is a slight decrease in sound quality? Someone also said that putting a power conditioner on an amp is like putting a condom on it.
"...
My question is with these high quality power cords do i still need a power conditioner?"
It depends on how stable your Power-Station source is, and what your 20 amp line connects to.
I'm in a condo. So I have to take neighbor usage into account, and thus have conditioners attached to anything electrical of perceived value. I have also learned to appreciate the inherent value of reference level Furman conditioners.
In addition, when I visit mom in CA, I can calibrate my watch every night at 6PM. This is when PG&E does some kind of relay swap that causes a brown-out. The lights dim and the UPS for her computer chirps. A dedicated line would make no difference here, because PG&E does what they do every night at 6PM.
That, and the point of the conditioner is to protect the equipment. I accept the slight decrease in sound quality to protect my gear. Your mileage may vary...
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