I miss Geoff Kait.
Alternatives to Stillpoints
I am using the Stillpoints Ultra SS with good success in some of my gear. Looking to complete two more sets. Then it hit me, is there anything better (preferably cheaper) out there?
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I want to set my whole rack on vibration isolators with just the regular, inexpensive rubber padding type under component feet for those compnents that did not come with anti vibration feet. what is the “best” shore scale for reducing vibration transmitted to the rack, either vibrations from bass or “thumps” to the floor (ie dropping a heavy object)? thanks.. |
Ack chew ally, you cannot control the very low frequency seismic type vibrations with materials such as mahgister just mentioned no matter how exotic the materials or in what combination.I am very happy with just good for the moment.... Perfect this is not.... And you are right for the difference between damping and isolation for sure.... But all is a question of trade-off/cost.... My sandwiches solution cost peanuts and are very good without being perfect.... Vibrations controls is one embeddings only.... The money spared will be invested better by someone who use my low cost solution in the electrical grid embedding and mostly in the acoustical embeddings... The audible effects of a rightfully treated room exceed any other changes....Then a good isolation and damping solution like mine even if not perfect for sure suffice to most people.... :) I will add your spring solution one day to my sandwiches when i will be in the obligation to recreate my audio system, selling my house....After that without being perfect my sandwiches+springs would be very good indeed....Except for isolating my audio system for Yellowstone eruption for sure or fire truck passing near by my sandwiches are good enough for now..... I will leave perfection search in audio to you, myself i will be happy with a good audio only and a good woman only....I wish you also the perfect one tough.... :) |
Ack chew ally, you cannot control the very low frequency seismic type vibrations with materials such as mahgister just mentioned no matter how exotic the materials or in what combination. If it was that easy everyone could do it. 🤗 And LIGO the project to detect and observe very low frequency gravity waves ♒️ would not (rpt not) have required the long 20 year program of vibration isolation development to be able to sufficiently reduce the effects of seismic vibration type noise on the experiment. What is required for audio systems is a mass-on-spring isolation system of sufficiently low natural frequency Fn to be effective for the critical frequencies 8-20 Hz. For cables and power cords a simple suspension by strong thread from eye 👁 hooks in the ceiling will suffice. So I have just distinguished between isolation and damping. You can still use your exotic materials for damping. I am looking for people who want perfect, not just good. |
Homemade low cost recipe: quartz feet /granite plate/ sorbothane/Granite plate/ cork plate/ bamboo plate/ granite plate/sorbothane....Cost is under 100 dollars for the 2 speakers and the same cost for dac+amp This controls resonance and damp it with diverse densities of materials at low cost....My speakers are under load (70 pounds)also....My speakers are on my desk beside the dac and the amplifier that are on top of the same sandwiches....No vibrations are sensed at all with my finger on my desk at high volume with drums.... Not perfect but very good.... |
I generally won’t pay for snake-oil tweaks and exotic cables. However, I really like Center Stage Footers by Critical Mass Systems. Pricing by any standards borders on ridiculous - until you hear what they do. The explanation for how they work is pure obfuscation to me. I didn’t want to like them.... You can find comparisons reviews to Stillpoints. Don’t read them! If you try them, you won’t thank me for this. Oh, I also like Herbie’s for tube dampers. The footers are ok, but not in the same sonic league, or price bracket as the CMS gizmos. Thank God! |
Values (Shore A and ASKER C scales) provided by Diversitech indicate the black rubber and blue "foam" materials used to construct the 2x2" EVA MP2E pads are similar in hardness to Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet. For details see the 5:45PM 2/20/19 post at the thread here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vibration-isolation-2 |
Amazon. I think this is it: https://www.amazon.com/HIMALAID-Himalayan-Serving-Naturally-Provides/dp/B07L3BLLHH/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UT... It's 12 x x 8 x 2 so it's footprint is a bit smaller than the amps. |
I received an order from Herbies a few days ago and my results are puzzling. Bought 3 isocups and lamp black balls to place under my Ayre ax7e amp. So placed under the chassis bypassing the existing 3 feet wrought a slight increase in depth and bass. However placing under the existing feet gave a considerable change! Much improved bass and top end, almost like I had hit the loudness button...lol. I thought the idea was to bypass the manufacturer supplied feet and go direct to chassis. Tbh I was truly surprised to be really hear anything this noticeable. And I swapped back and forth many times just to be sure at least in my mind. Any thoughts? |
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The Symposium Rollerblock 2+ arrived! Very well built, and effective! Damn... though they had like four pages of instructions to read 😂😂. So, I moved my Stillpoints Ultra SS to my power conditioner, and using these for my ZENith MK3 server. My system never sounded so good! Not sure whether from “equipping “ my Power Conditioner with footers in general, or from Rollerblocks. I just ordered a set of three Level 3, V3 from Ingress Engineering. For less than half the price of the Symposiums, worth trying and comparing. |
No problem @yoby no offense taken. I am pretty happy with Mapleshade and don’t see myself changing anything anytime soon. Are there better things out there? Sure are, but I have to stop somewhere and be satisfied. Like with everything in life. Honestly, I had been very resistant on racks and platforms over the past 15 years or so, and only used cheap racks before from VTI and Pangea. It took getting the Samson rack locally from someone last year to change my mind. So yes, racks matter, and I do realize I can do better. But not for now. Mapleshade will do. |
I actually make a dual layer mass on spring iso stand, the Nirvana, Revelation Audio has one, it’s two stacked layers of heavy masses on springs. The trick is keeping the resonance frequency of each mass on spring layer far enough apart to avoid any untoward interaction. It’s how the big boys do it. |
Yes @yoby I do use wooden shelves and rack. But those are not your warehouse woods. My rack is made of 4” and 2” thick air dried solid maple wood from Mapleshade: http://www.mapleshadestore.com/SAMSONv1racks.php They are excellent. So may I suggest you take a look before you put them down? |
Hi thyname: According to the system picture you have posted you're using wooden shelves on your rack. Although they look really nice, wood is not the best material to use sonically. Keep the Stillpoints Ultra SS footers you have for now and try upgrading one of your shelves first. There are many brands to choose from, although the better ones can be quite pricey. |
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A friend of mine, GH, turned me on to a much less expensive alternative made out of furniture cups and ball bearings. Bought the parts on Amazon for around $15. They are: Slipstick CB605 Furniture Wheel Caster Cups / Floor Protectors with Non Skid Rubber Grip (Set of 4 Grippers) 1-3/4 Inch - Chocolate Brown Ten 3/4" Inch Chrome Steel Bearing Balls G25 The ball bearings sit just above the top of the cup. I use four for stability. I’ve tried them under an Oppo 105 with a mild improvement. I also used an Ikea Butcherblock cutting board underneath the cups/bearings. I also tried blocks of maple on top of the cutting board instead of the cups/bearings but the maple wasn’t as good as the cups/bearings. I have an Aurender N10. The isolation on that component is not very good and it picks up significant vibration during spirited listening. The cups/bearings work very well in this application. Not exactly sure how much sound improvement I’ve realized since I’ve never removed them. But I can tell you that nearly all of the vibration during modest to loud volume is removed as tested by resting my hand very lightly on top of the N10. If you put weight on top of the player, such as a heavy hand, it picks up the vibration; so the isolation on top of the circumference of the four ball bearings seems to work well. BTW, if you look at the Ingress Engineering product, the cup/bearing method talked about above is the same concept. |
The original, cheapest Ingress is indeed a Symposium Jr. imitation. The higher priced Ingress are a very different story. Larger diameter bowl with a shallower slope for the ball bearing to climb (that climb the most important isolation design element of the roller bearing), 7075 aluminum in place of the softer 6061 used by Symposium (harder and smoother), and superior polishing. State-Of-The-Art in roller bearings imo. I have the cheap ones (double cup design) and the more expensive ones (single cup, with a stainless steel disc on the bottom of the component for the ball bearing to roll on), as well as a couple sets of the Symposium Jr's. They're all good. Still need a spring though, as roller bearings do not isolate in the vertical plane. And then there is the Townshend Audio Seismic Pod! |
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Symposium Acoustics is the best known maker of roller bearings, and their Rollerblock Series 2 and Rollerblock Jr. are fine products at a fair price, really well made. Before ordering either, consider the roller bearings offered by the Canadian company Ingress Engineering. They offer three models, the best (and most expensive of course, but still cheaper than both the Symposium models) of a decidedly better design and build than even the Rollerblock Series 2. The bowl carved into the Ingress cup is of a larger diameter than that in the Symposiums, producing a lower resonant frequency (and therefore better isolation). The bowls are then polished to a mirror-like finish for lowest friction. Also, the cup is manufactured out of the harder 7075 formula aluminum, as opposed to the softer 6061 of the Symposiums and the cheaper Ingress’. Three cups with ball bearings for under $200, a good value imo. For those preferring a top and bottom cup, the bottom-level Ingress is of the dual-cup design. As good as the Symposium Rollerblock Jr., at about half it's price. |
I’m a big fan of bungee cords for suspending components. And of suspending all cables and cords from the ceiling. One spring can be quite interesting under a thing, since it can isolate in rotational directs as well as vertical direction and has a very low resonant frequency compared to multiple springs. Getting a thing of some size to balance on a nice springy spring can be quite a challenge sometimes. |
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Check out the MAPLESHADE platform and footers systems http://www.mapleshadestore.com/airdriedmapleplatforms.php |
Here is my Amazon order: https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/summary/edit.html/ref=dp_iou_view_this_order?ie=UTF8&orderID=112-1... Ordered 9/14/2018. Here is the product I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KAFG8EG/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |