While I have not heard the new version of the slanted baffle Adagio, I do know that for the original version you probably need at least a good 9 feet for the MTM driver config to integrate properly. Perhaps this slanted baffle helps a little in this area.
I went to the RMAS and heard the Adagio in all 3 rooms that had them,including both the Adagio and Adagio Monitor in Robert's room. I also own a pair of Adagios. All 3 rooms(Triode Corporation, Balanced Power Technologies, and Robert's AZ + ModWright Instruments)shared that natural, organic, sounds like real instruments sound. So, a few more thoughts: These speakers (both floor standing and monitor)sound so good that you simply have to hear them to believe it. I sat to the side in Robert's room and watched the visitors. They were the most toe-tapping, grinning, dancing group you ever saw. In nearly all the other rooms, I would see people straining to answer the question "What am I hearing?" "Is it great bass, mid, treble, dynamics, etc?" In the AZ rooms you just saw grins and body parts moving. They are gorgeous. Again, you have to see them. Pictures don't come close. They compete successfully against all comers at any price point, but especially against some of the megadollar designs that try so hard to be new and innovative, and fail to please because of their extremes. The AZ is very innovative (circular ribbon, hand made by Robert, underhung motors, transmission line cabinets, single crystal AZ wiring, each pair listened to by Robert before shipping) with all of this aimed at natural, undistorted, fidelity. What a bargain.
I was twice in the Balanced Power Tech. suite but did not notice any music being played. I was never in the Triode or ModWright suite. I still find it curious that the Adagios were not in the Audio Zen or Red Dragon suites.
I am not in the least denying that they sounded great last year.
Tbg: You said earlier that you didn't see Acoustic Zen speakers anywhere at RMAS, but you were in the BPT room twice. It's too bad they weren't playing music while you were in there, but the AZ Adagios were in that room in the new black finish. Maybe you didn't recognize them because of the color. But,this year, at this show, Robert was sharing a suite with ModWright and was providing speakers, cables, and considerable expertise in setting up the room for best sound, which is no small feat. I think Dan from ModWright was providing all of the electronics in use plus a lovely Stillpoints stand. Dan does not sell a power amp at present and was using tubed monoblocs and I don't recall the brand. I don't know what speaker Red Dragon used this year but the sound in there room pretty much turned me back towards the door. I did not see an "Audio Zen" room at RMAS, but I also don't know what that would have to do with Acoustic Zen. Finally, there was a room there that mentioned, among other brands, Acoustic Zen, but I have to assume that they were referring to cables because there were some very large, highly sculpted wooden speakers in there that were being played at painful levels that also turned me right around. They also were NOT AZ Adagios. There was a lot to see at RMAS, everyone I spoke with there was very nice and personable. Very good vibe going on. I find it amazing that you would say that you didn't see the Adagios there. Robert Lee was only showing in 1 room, but two other rooms also used his speakers to great effect.
I am going to check out the Adagios at the AZ factory this Friday at the invitation of Robert Lee himself! I am pretty excited! I will report back with what I hear.
I spent most of my time listening to the new Pioneer speakers, the LSA Model 10s in the Walker suite (which I also heard driven by the Exemplar/LSA components), the Evolution speakers, the Zu suite, the room shared by Wally and Acapella, and the Behold suite. I did seek out the Red Dragon and Acoustic Zen as last year they together had outstanding sound.
I agree that the RMAF is a great show and enjoyed the snow on Saturday.
I too found and enjoyed the Adagio's in three rooms at RMAF this last weekend -- the Modwright & AZ room (1010), the Triode room (1121) and the BPT room (9025). I thought the BPT demo tunes (another delightful, free CD) sounded particularly nice on the Adagio's, even in the less than optimum room acoustics of a show environment.
Dan and Robert were a little chagrined to discover mid-show that there was a signal phase anomoly in one of the Response Audio modified tube power amps (100wpc I believe) which, when corrected, snapped the sound in their room into some of the best at the show (IMHO). Great lesson there -- when in doubt, ignore your eyes and trust your ears!
Sorry about the phase issue. I was startled to hear about this. The request for amplifiers at this year's show was short notice for us and I had only a few days to get things shipped out to ModWright. At least they were in excellent hands at the show and this was noticed easily with teh educated ears that were running the room.
Lgo51...."which, when corrected, snapped the sound in their room into some of the best at the show (IMHO)...."
I had a chance to listen to the Adagios today at the Acoustic Zen factory. First of all, Robert Lee was very gracious with his time and patiently answered all of my questions. He is truly a gentleman.
Here is a list of the associated equipment and room: pre: Bel Canto Pre1 amp: Bel Canto (some 2 ch digital) cdp: cheapie Samsung cabling: all Acoustic Zen (of course) room: we listened in a sectioned off area of his warehouse which is very large with very tall, exposed ceiling. Needless to say this was not the best setup
Strenghts: The two things that stuck out for me was the depth of the soundstage which was simply amazing! The 3d effect was addictive! The second thing that struck me was the midrange which was smooth, realistic, and not distorted at all, even at ridiculous listening levels.
Weaknesses (or what I did not like): The ribbon tweeters to me sounded harsh and metallic. There was also a problem with the imaging which was probably due to the setup. Voices seemed too large in comparison to the othe instruments. I felt like I was listening to a giant singing 6 feet away from me. The speakers also did not disappear. I heard way too much music coming directly from the speakers themselves. The soundstage width was restricted to the physical location of the speakers. Again, this could be down to setup. Bass was also light but in a confined room I am sure it would sound better.
Misc: Even though I loved the nice finishes of the cabinet, I do not care for the overall look for the speakers. Also, when played at very loud volumes, I felt like the Adagios were straining. It sounded like a small speaker trying to sound loud.
Overall: For the price, these are great speakers. I would like to listen to these speakers again in a properly setup room with at least better source components. They are indeed intriguing and according to Robert Lee they are selling VERY well. I was surprised to hear how many he has sold since their introduction at least years RMAF. Congratualtions to Robert Lee, he deserves all the success he achieves....
Happy Halloween Tboooe! Enjoyed your post. I'm sure that the ModWright/Response/Acoustic Zen room at RMAF will generate a lot of really positive show reports. The room really sounded fantastic. If there was a weak link, whatever it was, even it sounded great. This is basically to say that I hope that in addition to having a great get-together with Robert, you'll also get to hear his speakers in a suitable setting.
Hey Tboooe, I think your mention of the "hot tweeter" may have been due to the amps being used for your audition. One thing I have realized is that the Adagio's sound their best (to me anyway) with tubes. This might be a bit biased coming from a tube junkie such as myself but a lot of the feedback has confirmed the same. Robert wil have the Bella EXtreme 100 tube amps soon so if you get a chance, you may want to arrange another audition with the speakers driven by tubes.
Kmillette........ Thanks for the kind words about the show!
If what you describe is indeed how they sound and not room anomolies, I don't think these are speakers I would want in my system. A home audition would definitely be a must.
I find the treble to be much on the smooth side on my system. In fact they sound significantly smoother than stuff like Spendor (already smooth) from what I hear in dealers showroom here. Could very well be the cheap samsung CDP (what to expect anyway). :)
I agree Ozzy62. I dont want to give anyone the wrong impression of the speakers. My feeling is the room setup was totally wrong for listening. The bottom line right now is that I cannot make an accurate assessment. The only thing I know for sure is:
1. I dont like the looks 2. Robert Lee is a GREAT Guy!
Adagios at the previous RMAF definitely sounded better on the Red Dragon class D amps than on the tube amp of unknown origin that was later put on them.
Tbg, when you say "the tube amp of unknown origin that was later put on them", are you talking about the amps used at this year's RMAF? I heard the Adagios at THE SHOW in Las Vegas last January using Red Dragon amps. I also heard it this year at RMAF using Response Audio's amps - Bella EXtreme 100's I believe. Given that the shows were 9 months apart, and that other changes were made, and the venues were different...The sound at this year's RMAF was better. I don't own either Red Dragon or Response Audio products, so I do not have a horse in this race,
Having said that, are there any Adagio owners that want to give feedback on the amps they have tried and/or using?
I would also like some feedback on amps in use on the Adagios. I am currently using the excellent Lavardin IT, but at 50 watts, I am wondering what a good SS integrated with 150+ watts output, might give me. I suspect I will get a better base and control, particularly with orchestral music.I was paricularly looking at the Karan K 180, though I don't expext anyone has used them with the Adagios, there are'nt too many of the Karans around, but any other suggestions?
Don't have an int., but using separates powered by a Proceed AMP2 (150 W/ch). More than enough spl's for my medium sized room (17 x 24). Plenty of bass control to easily discern upright bass section, from the cello's etc. in all orchestral music I have in my collection. Adagio's don't pressurize the room on bombastic pieces like Picture's, Rite or 1812, but works for me so far. Definitely need tubes somewhere in the system, otherwise the sound may be too dry. (I have a tube pre and DAC)
I just mated it yesterday with an Almarro 318B (18W SET), currently rolled with Sylvania VT-229/6SL7GT and Sylvania VT-231/6SNGT as input/driver, changed input bypass caps to Blackgate-N and coupling caps to 2x Mundorf Supreme and 2x Auricaps.
Will need a darn long time for the Blackgates to run in probably. But if you are talking about power, it is definitely enough for a small 12 x 15ft room. :) Unless if you listen to stuff like drums. Initial listening without running in is pretty positive.
I sometimes get a bit amused at all of our "opinions" and how it may or may not affect a buying decision by someone reading here. But here goes!
In the past year, in my home I have extensively demoed/owned the following speakers: Wilson Benesch Arcs and Zu Tone monitors (both with a REL Storm III), Tyler Acoustic Linbrook, B&W 802d, Zu Druids with a Mini Method sub, Acoustic Zen Adagios (original) and Acoustic Zen Adagio (newest version with slanted baffles and other improvements). With these speakers I have only used integrated amps (BAT VK300XSE, Cary SLI-80 F1, Audio Research, McIntosh MA2275) and always Cary digital with a Wadia thrown in for comparisons sake. Cables by Acoustic Zen, Furutech, Synergistic and Straightwire with power by Running Springs and Richard Grays. Too many combinations to report on each matchup but I will make some general observations that I hope will help someone to make a logical decision.......try for yourself.....It's the only way to know for sure. Don't buy ANYTHING because some scmhoe, me included, says something is great.
As you will see, I have had tubes in the chain in every combo but that is not to say that tubes should float everyone's boat. I have heard most of the above equipment at show conditions, dealer showroom conditions and in my home. This next statement is importnant for those looking for guidance: THERE IS VERY LITTLE CORRELATION BETWEEN SOUND QUALITY WHEN AT A SHOW OR SHOWROOM and that of your HOME......PERIOD! If you don't demo in your own listening environment you are buying equipment for a different purpose than the aural purpose of listening enjoyment.
With all of the above in mind, I did not find either version of the Adagio shrill or tipped up in any way. The new Adagio blends the drivers better than the original, although the original is fabulous in its own right. I'm sure the 802d has found many a happy buyer in different homes and I hope the gentleman that bought mine is enjoying them. The Tylers are a good value and a fabulous on-ramp to our hobby as Bartokfan will likely expouse, although Bartok believes Seas drivers are the ultimate, which they are not. The Arcs were fabulous and I have never heard the larger WB speakers. Both sets of Zus are wonderful in their own right although driver integration was troublesome for me. The Tones REQUIRE a sub and the Druids NEED one.....both Zus will benefit with a better integrated tweeter in my opinion and....here comes the heresy (please no flames) could probably use a crossover to balance the tonal imbalances I heard in my room. The benefits might outweigh the tradeoffs...you never know. The Adagio is a wonderfully balanced speaker, top to bottom. Get it in your environment with your equipment and see for yourself. You may prefer other speakers for your application and likely will! At the end of the day however, this thread asked the question, "How good are they?" and the answer is an emphatic yes, they are that good.......if you think so after trying them in your particular application. Until you have tried equipment in you own home, its a wild guess and an uniformed opinion. But to evaluate a pair of speakers in a hotel room or warehouse with unfamiliar equipment is a shot in the dark. My 2 cents....peace.
Ghasley I don't think anyone is asking for buy, but audition recommendations. There are a vast number of possible amp/speaker combinations, so other peoples experience is a useful starting point. I agree about poor show conditions, but that can be helpful, any room sounding half way decent in a show, must have real potential in ideal conditions
Thanks for your experience Ghastley. I'm auditioning a pair of Tyler Linbrook Signature Monitors looking to replace a pair of Apogee Slant 6s.
The Tylers are a very nice speaker and have convinced me that I need a lot more bass than the Apogees are delivering, but I think the Apogee ribbon tweeter has spoiled me. The Tylers don't have the high frequency sparkle, sharp imaging, and the same natural in the room quality on vocals that I like so much in the Apogees.
How do the AZ Adagios compare with the Tylers that you listened to in these areas?
Another question, the Apogees have the problem of the ribbon having poor vertical dispersion, so the sparkle disappears when you get your ears above the ribbon. How do the Adagios sound when you get out of the sweet spot? Is there a noticeable diminishing of the sound quality? Thanks for any help!
I have also mated the Adagio with lower power tubes. At the moment, I have them being driven by a pair of Manley Labs MAHI mono blocs runing in triode for approximately 17 watts per side. My showroom is quite large at about 1300 sq. ft. but I have them only 8 feet apart and sitting 8 feet from the speakers. The speakers are a light enough load on the amps to allow for good dynamics and enough volume to fill the room. Soundstage is unbelievably wide but them again, there is about 15 feet to the side of each speaker. I have also run them with 8 watt 300B SET mono blocs and the sound would make you melt in your listening chair. Obviously there are dynamic and headroom limitations with such low power but sonically..........wow! My personal preference so far has been 100 watt KT88 mono blocs with a tube pre, tube phono stage and/or tube CD player. Yes, I'm a tube guy.
Hi Tomcy6, I cannot comment on the comparison between the Adagios and Tylers but can comment a bit on the tweeter dispersion. The Adagio uses a unique, exclusive circular ribbon tweeter so it mantains exceptional horizontal and vertical dispersion just as a conventional dome tweeter. I to have found many conventional ribbon tweeters to sacrifice vertical dispersion, not so with the Adagio!
Response 34: I'm driving my Adagios with an Art Audio PX25. It's huffing and puffing with 6 watts. But, in my small room (12.5' X 15.5') it sounds fantastic! There is a limit to SPL's with this setup, and I am shopping for more juice, but I have to find an amp with just as much majic to go with these super-musical speakers. Not easy. Maybe one of these days I can bring myself to name the excellent speakers that the Adagios are running out of my house. They cost a little more than 4X the AZ's. Robert Lee is a genius, but it also must be said that he has been working on these speakers for many years. It also says a lot about him that he got his design right before he put them on the market.
Kmillette.. I can imagine just how emotionally involving the Art Audio is with the Adagio speakers. I have run 8 watt 300Bs with these speakers and..........well, you already know. Maybe a push-pull 2A3 or 300B will give you the control you need while maintaining that sound you now love. I have runn my 25 watt push-pull 300B mono blocs with them and it was enough to make you melt in your listening chair. Right now I am running a pair of 60 watt push-pull 6C33 based mono blocs an I think I have found the magical combination. For my taste at least!
Response34, I am running the 6C33C too but in SET with my Almarro 318B (NFB) into the Adagios, the sound is really good, perhaps the sound is a bit on the warm side as the lower midrange is quite pronounced but nevertheless it is extremely musical sounding. (I'd believe the Adagio is a warm speaker)
What we have changed is the input bypass Nichicon Gold caps to BlackGate NX in parallel Super-E config (ie 2 stock caps into 4 BG-NX), Mundorf Supreme and Auricap for coupling.
I chose these as well as Sylvania VT-231 and Tungsol VT-229 because I wouldn't want want to pair the Adagios with a slow, warm, laidback sounding amp. The resulting music is really musical and not the Hifi-ish sound you get from many setups nowadays.
Those 60W of PP power must be great for ya. I think that 18W is still somewhat limiting on some programme, even in my smallish room of about 11x15 feet. I hope to be able to play with stuff like 805 or the GM70 someday, with more amps using these tubes.
PS. I heard really good things on your mods for the MIC tube amps, but I just can't bring myself to spend on the V-CAP teflons! And the Russian Teflons are too big to squeeze in. Sigh.
Yup you in SG too? I use the same handle/nick in the local forums (echoloft/Xtremeplace). : ) I guess you'll be getting the same stuff from the same dealer?
Cables....Nothing special, just van den hul CS-122 single run (well the Adagio can't be biwired, so i save here...ha!) and DHLabs Air Matrix w/Eichmann plugs, both silver coated Long Grain copper.
Do change the input bypass and coupling caps in the 318Bn, you will find that the amp leaps into another league. Whether or not is it just an improvement or difference depends on your tastes. The Adagio is not exactly very sensitive at 89dB/m/w so for tubes try to go for at least double digit wattage tube amps, esp if your music demands the headroom. The Almarro can be made to match the Adagio and your tastes sonically just by changing the caps, which won't cost much.
Let me know if you have any questions in echoloft, i have a thread on the 318B there.
I am going to change the caps in the 318B. Heard the stock version with the Adagio and it already had oodles of promise.
Frankly, those power tubes on the Almarro are real monsters and the sound that it produces belies the fact that it has *only* 18 watts of power.
The Almarro/Adagio combo is just very musical and warm, but with nice bass slam and control to boot. Something that im looking for. Infact, i prefer the Adagio over the newer Hyperions.
Hi 2100, The 6C33 amps I am currently running were a bit on the warmer side in their original form. They are discontinued ASL KMP60 Fox mono blocs but I am now having the chassis OEM'ed for my by Joseph Lou of ASL. They are now being built in-house here in New York and voiced for a bit more presence and air. I use the SoniCap Platinum Teflon in these along with a rebuilt power supply which also helps to tighten up the bass.
With the Adagio speaker, many have commented they sound like 60 watt 300B's. I am very happy with this combination and when matched with the proper preamp (very linear tube units), the presentation is very well balanced and refined.
Merelyok, i am using Blackgate NX 4x 220uF in Super E paralleled config as input bypass caps. http://www.blackgate.jp/ebg6.htm Coupling caps i am using 2x 0.22 and 2x 0.33 Mundorf Supremes. If you prefer a slightly warmer sound and not too particular about precise imaging, you may wish to try Auricaps. You can further fine tune the sound with the input 6SL7GT tube. Just remember that the Adagio is on the warm side, so if you are already using Auricaps, avoid stuff like the RCA 6SL7GT.
Response34 - I goggled and found your Bella Extreme 6C33C amp. I cannot wait to see if there are further developments in the SET scene and do 50-60W SET. SET just makes the Adagio sing with such beautiful emotions. :)
I heard them today, at the local dealer. They are amazing!!! Smooth, fully detailed, strong bass, great stage, pure magic! On the down side, the mid seems a litle backward. and they look like %$#@...:-) I certainly am going to audition them at my home. Currently running Focal 926, which are pure garbage in comparison...
I don't agree they look %$@, even my wife quite likes them and she was an interior designer. I should say she "quite" likes them, probably just relieved I did'nt buy anything worse.
2100, Am I to understand that you are also using the Almarro with another speaker? Say of a 93dB?
I too found that the Almarro changed in a good way when upgrading the caps. Even the little 205A showed a beneficial change (in my opinion) when changing to Teflon caps. I have been using the V-Caps in these amps for some time. More noticable in the 205A was also going with a slightly higher value. This was more dependant on the speakers being paired with the amp.
The Adagio speakers are, in my opinion, and exceptional performer. I do not have much experience with them being driven by solid state but with tube, you are emotionally connected with the music.
I heard them briefly there as well Tvad....but it was show environment so wasn't paying too much attention and I wasn't in the sweet spot. I know Paul Bolin in the room was raving...on the same music I brought it---Zero 7.
Phil @ Sonic Spirits in NJ says the Adagios are very different from my former Wilson Sophias---which i would define as "detailed, clear and relatively neutral."
Hence my conundrum...i would like to hear them somewhere out in LA. Upscale has them, but that's an hour + drive to Upland with no traffic :) They seem relatively efficient and amplifier flexibility is key to me---care to contrast them with Zu Druids for me? I don't want to create a stir so feel free to email me offline...
I agree with Tvad, not warm and cuddly, very neutral, but not in a sterile, HiFi not music way, if you know what I mean. The simile that comes to mind to me, is a clear mountain stream. They are dynamic, neutral right across the soundstage, no colouration I can hear. To answer the solid state question, my tube amp is still in Italy, for ever, being repaired. I am using a Lavardin IT, very nice, but lacking a little drive at 50watts. I hope to get a Karan K180 soon, that is a match I think will be exceptional
I have heard the druids on a number of occasions, though not against the Adagios. I liked the Zu speakers a lot and was thinking of buying them as well. They are not as neutral, certainly dynamic, but coloured in comparison. The Adagios, I find quite dynamic too, but more refined. They are pretty easy to drive, 89db and flat 6ohm impedence. Rated at 50 to 200watts, tube amps down to 20watts and below seem to handle them pretty well, when I have heard them with tubes.
Audphile1- i'm not saying they will. New living circumstances made me sell the Sophias. I'm looking for something smaller and cheaper for awhile.
Tvad- I was going to do that, just taking the CFA tomorrow so I haven't really started my search. I'm going to take some time and hear a bunch of stuff. I haven't been out to hear speakers in years. I might see if I can go down the AZ factory even as its in SoCal.
Keithr, if you are going to audition some speakers, try to hear Totem speakers. I was really impressed with their Mani-2 Signature model. Monitor speaker that goes down to 29hz(uses Dynaudio drivers) and sounds really much bigger than it is, but the drawback is they like lots of power.
I listened to Adagios many times and find them to be a bit rolled off at the very top. Still dynamic sounding and pretty detailed overall, but not as open and clean as your Wilsons were. Thought I'd bring up Totems as an option if you liked your Wilson Sophia. I think you will like Totems.
Kiethr, Fred at Katliaudio.com might have a pair for audition. He is in Chino hills. Closer than Upscale audio. Agree with Audphile1. Sophia's much better than adagios. Adagios has good bass for speaker / mid bass size. I would rate the adagios on neautral but a bit glassy side. Love the AZ cables though.My system is full of them!! Bigger model than adagios, if in work, should be alot better.
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