Accuphase dac 60

Thanks everyone, sure is a learning experience the higher up you go in the craziness. 

@duketbrd88 

The burn-in process is very real and it applies to both *new* cables and electronics. There is a reason you love E-380 and the DAC60 is no exception, its designed to work seamlessly and if I may say so, beautifully with E-380. Be patient until it’s fully broken-in before you make any decision. I have AD50 phono module ($1K) and it has bested outboard phono costing as much as $4K in my system. 

@duke89061 First time with me personally ever noticing a change with burn in, which I was never a believer in. Now I am.

Ha! This has been a learning experience. Burn-in for many components is most definitely real phenomenon. I’m not surprised that the Accuphase DAC 60 is steady improving its sound quality (And will continue further). The substantial difference in voltage output was/is off putting as a new experience. I’m not surprised that the DAC is beginning to emerge as more clear, pure and resolved.

Charles

First time with me personally ever noticing a change with burn in, which I was never a believer in. Now I am. 

@lalitk 

I see, makes sense now. It’s not a bad dac at all. Sound is better the longer it runs and actually more bass now. Just the volume difference between the two something I’m not used to. If I didn’t have the ps audio here to compare it to, I would probably think totally different. The actual clarity and quiet background is great. Actually when I crank the volume with the ps audio I can start to here a little distortion and have to back it off. With the dac 60, it’s crystal clear as loud and safe as far as I feel comfortable taking it.

When @lalitk said the slot chosen was the issue I thought “wow” what a simple fix (Resolution to the prob).

I agree, it made a lot of sense.

@duketbrd88

When @lalitk said the slot chosen was the issue I thought “wow” what a simple fix (Resolution to the prob). Alas it wasn’t the culprit afterall. There’s still a possibility that something might be faulty. If indeed it is just a case of a very low voltage output, you would think at least a few others would have voiced similar concerns. Audio is both fascinating and at times frustrating.

Charles

It seems for whatever reason Accuphase has implemented the DAC 60 card to operate with a low voltage output. I have to give them benefit of the doubt and assume it’s for a good reason. 

I don't know, but to me it sounds like something isn't working correctly.  One of the Accuphase dealers should comment if your experience is "normal" or if something is broken.  Someone must own your amp with the DAC card and hopefully will chime in.

I hope you sort all this out.  Are all the DAC 60 cards the same regardless of what countries markets they are built for?

@charles1dad 

Yeah, I’m sure there is a reason. It’s just crazy to me. First time experiencing something like this and at $2,000. 
 

curious what you meant by this “Wow! I hope the resolution is this simple. That’d be terrific news.”?

 I just read it in your above post.

Thanks for your help! Everyone, I appreciate it. Great when the audio community can help each other out. Not like some other forums or groups I belong to.

@duketbrd88

It seems for whatever reason Accuphase has implemented the  DAC 60 card to operate with a low voltage output. I have to give them benefit of the doubt and assume it’s for a good reason. I can see your point for certain. You have to trust what you hear and choose what sounds better and makes you happier.

Charles

It is now in the first slot and option 1 selected. No difference than slot 2. Just have to turn the volume up more to match what I’m used to with the ps audio dac.

 I do notice that the dac 60 is a clearer sound and less distortion, it seems. 

@thyname

it is. Clearly marked which one to select. There is just a huge gain/volume difference between the outboard dac and the accuphase.

the card is inserted properly. It does sound good and getting better, but not worth it compared to what I have. Jmho…

Maybe swap the selection in the front of the unit? Sometimes it is not clear which one is referred to as "1" or "2". Just a thought.

If this does not work, maybe you swap the DAC module into the remaining slot, and try that.

Also, as stupid as this sounds, I would make sure you have properly inserted / connected the module into its slot.

As a last resort, have you tried to communicate with Accuphase directly?

Best of luck.

You can put the dac card or phono card in either slot, just have to select option 1or2 on the front depending on what slot you are in.

@jjss49 

no I did not. It clearly states in the manual either slot, does not matter. Then you select option 1or 2 on the front depending on the slot. Talked to a couple dealers also, besides my dealer and they also said it doesn’t matter.

👍

@duketbrd88 

did you try it in the other slot? 

@ronboco 

the dealer has been great to deal with and said I can return it. I hooked the ps audio back up this morning and the difference is amazing. That gain or volume difference feels like adding a separate amp. I’m still shocked, because this is not the outcome I expected at all.

@lalitk 

in the manual, it says either slot and the dealer said he usually puts it in slot #2, but i will double check.

right now I have a trusty 18 year old denon 1910 cd/ DVD player as my CD player with the coax and an optical cable from my Sony oled playing hi res music from YouTube music videos which actually sounds excellent and the reason I have been putting off streaming for the time being.

 I do want to pick up a audiolab 6000cdt transport this week for cd’s.

 I have been running this setup for years with the ps audio dac, the old Classé stuff and now the accuphase integrated and all of it sounds awesome and crystal clear.

so, those are my main sources for now. I know not ideal for everyone, but works for me. The only new variable added was the dac 60.

Great help from everyone here but your dealer should know about any issues that may arise. Hope it works out well! 

“The DAC60 option board should be installed in slot #1. The slot #2 is for optional phono board”

Wow! I hope the resolution is this simple. That’d be terrific news.

Charles

@duketbrd88

The DAC60 option board should be installed in slot #1. The slot #2 is for optional phono board. Please make the swap and let us know if you hear any difference. Also what is your source and how it is connected to DAC60. 

Yes, if in fact the situation is DAC 60 1.23v versus P.S.Audio 5.5V, that’d literally explain everything. The voltage output differential is huge. Surely Accuphase can answer the question regarding output voltage.

Charles

@charles1dad 

that is what my take is on it also

dac 60 is in the second slot.

slot #2

@lalitk

The DAC60 is a dedicated digital input board that simply decodes incoming digital signal and inputs directly into preamplifier analog section

That is why I am seeking affirmation. If it doesn’t have an output voltage (Of its own) and the only output voltage is via the preamplifier section, then that output is only 1.23V. That’s quite low voltage for a DAC. This would explain the current dilemma.

@charles1dad

The DAC60 is a dedicated digital input board that simply decodes incoming digital signal and inputs directly into preamplifier analog section.

@duketbrd88

What is your digital source? And what slot did you install the DAC60 board?

@duketbrd88 

If it helps,

I have a Denafrips Pontus ll Dac and I just looked up the output voltages and they are 2.0vrms RCA at 625 ohms and 4.0vrms XLR at 1250 ohms.

All the best.

The only good DAC Accuphase built is the DC-1000.

It is amazing, it kill everything I heard from Aqua or Lampizator, regardless of the cost. It is a 20K unit though…. If it’s not for the DC-1000, plenty of better DACs for the money… Aqua and Lampizator to name a few.

@lalitk 

You are pretty familiar with Accuphase components. Do you think that the DAC 60 card output voltage is derived from the integrated amplifier’s preamplifier output or does it likely have its own independent output voltage?

Charles

@duketbrd88 

I noticed that your amp has “Individual phase setting for each input”, so you might try that to see if it helps. 

Does your music source have an attenuation you’ve used in the past to equalize your PS Audio DAC to your other sources?

@charles1dad 

I am guessing it is on the preamp. I can’t find anything on it and they are just inputs. How do most higher end companies do it, like luxman, rotel michi, Anthem, Parasound or anyone that has a built in dac on their preamp? I don’t know.

@rockrider 

yes, two different sources for optical and coaxial. The Rel T7x is connected with there speakon high level connection. Great sub by the way, I need to add another one.

The unanswered question is does the Accuphase DAC 60 card have an independent output voltage or is it totally reliant on the preamplifier output voltage of the integrated amplifier?

Charles

@duketbrd88

I see that the “preamp section output voltage “ is 1.23v. Since the DAC 60 is placed into this circuit I’m don’t know if it just utilizes this for voltage gain. If so 1.23is pretty low. Speculation for certain.

installed)

Since Accuphase apparently designs their devices for the same voltage whether balanced or unbalanced, you might try the unbalanced output from the PS Audio DAC for closer comparison. 

Are the optical and coaxial digital inputs two different sources?

Also, how is your Sub connected?
 

@charles1dad 

I don’t know if the above manual helps. On the last page are some voltage figures on my e380 integrated.

What I found on the accuphase e380 integrated 

Continuous Average
8-ohm load
Output Power
(both channels driven)
(20 - 20.000 Hz)
4-ohm load
THD
(both channels driven)
4 to 16 ohm load
(20 - 20.000 Hz)
120 W
180 W
0.05%
Intermodulation Distortion
0.01%
HIGH LEVEL INPUT
20 - 20,000Hz (+0. -0.5 dB)
Frequency
Response
20 - 20,000Hz (+0, -0.2 dB)
MAIN IN
At 1 watt output: 3 - 150.000 Hz (+0. -3.0 dB)
Damping Factor
500 (with 8-ohm load, 50 Hz)
Input sensitivity
Input
Input
For rated output For 1 W output (ElA) Impedance
Input Sensitivity,
HIGH LEVEL INPUT
155 mV
14.2 mV
20 kilohms
Input Impedance
BALANCED INPUT
155 mV
14.2 mV
40 kilohms
MAIN IN
1.23 V
113 mV
20 kilohms
1.23 V*
Output Voltage
Output Impedance
Gain
PRE OUTPUT
PRE OUTPUT
50 ohms
HIGH LEVEL INPUT -› PRE OUTPUT
MAIN IN -› OUTPUT
18 dB
28 dB

Yeah, I know. I couldn’t find it. Not in the manual’s I have.

I was unable to find specific output voltage information with regard to the DAC -60. “If” this is the DAC section taken from the Accuphase DP-60 (Minus the CD spinning mechanism) the output voltage is 2.5 voltage for RCA and XLR. So if this is the case, then a very significant 3 volt difference from the P.S. Audio. I don’t know why it’s so difficult to find the DAC 60 output voltage rating as it is worthwhile to know.

Charles

So basically, what would that translate in to volume, db level? Like around 10-15db higher on the volume for the dac 60 to equal the ps audio volume level?

thanks

The output voltage of P.S.Audio XLR is quite high. So a lot of gain it contributes to your overall system gain. If the DAC 60 is around 3-3.5V or certainly less voltage, there’s the likely issue.

Charles

I can’t find anything on the accuphase output at the moment.

Trying to find the Dac 60 card info, but the ps audio xlr output is 5.5 volts and rca is 2.75 volts according to Crutchfield. I’m using xlr into the amp.

still can’t believe the volume difference between the two dacs

Do you happen to know the stated output voltage of your P.S.Audio and DAC 60? If there’s a large discrepancy (For example, 1.5V versus 4-5V, ) that would explain a lot. Some DACs have output voltages in excess of 5V, that’s very high.

Charles

@charles1dad 

Thanks, still can’t believe the volume difference between the two dacs . I have personally never ran into something like that.

I will admit, it is sounding better the longer it runs.

That is encouraging. Remain patient and allow your Accuphase DAC 60 to accumulate more hours of use.It appears that things are progressing in the right direction.

Best wishes,

Charles