@geoffkait, I know somebody in the U.K. who recently had both the Minus K and Stacore side by side in his system for evaluation. The long and short is that he thought the Stacore worked better in his system and he now has four. Active vs passive systems, he preferred the passive solution. He uses and still recommends Symposium before he moved on to a “different level” with Stacore. I believe he uses Symposium couplers with the Stacore. However they weigh 100kg and the cost of one is equivalent to 5 Ultras and RB’s. So it’s a serious investment. Build quality I’m told is excellent.
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,487 responses Add your response
@mattnshilp , seems Shun Mooks are a bit Marmite from what I gather, you either love or hate them. I’ve been offered some to test out but waiting on your response because at this stage I’m not that positive about them, I think there are more interesting footers out there. I won’t tell you what the Stacore lover said about the SM’s until after you have tried them. |
toetapaudio @geoffkait, I know somebody in the U.K. who recently had both the Minus K and Stacore side by side in his system for evaluation. The long and short is that he thought the Stacore worked better in his system and he now has four. Active vs passive systems, he preferred the passive solution. >>>>The Minus K is not an active device. Maybe you’re thinking of a different device. Besides Stacore’s claim that 6 degree of freedom isolation is finally achieved with the their addition of roller bearings is not true.I introducted the first audiophile 6 degree of freedom isolation stand 21 years ago, a passive pneumatic device. Besides, anyone can add a stage of roller bearings to his spring-based system for better performance. That’s actually what audio recording guru Barry Diament recommends, as does your humble scribe. |
@toetapaudio since you had asked & i hope i'm disturbing of hijacking the good doc's thread. Apologies if i'm. i had considered getting a torus or an equitech. Since i'm based in india the customs duty & red tape is a bit forbidding, Hence i've decided to get a custom made solution from a local company who specialises in making it for various industries . I'm getting 6X2.5 kva balanced power units. & will be adding a grounding product( Most probably a mix of entreq & telos) in the mix. |
Stacore has been getting great reviews lately , among many others another brand which is also gets recommended often on this side of the atlantic esp in euorpe is another polish company called http://f-franc.com/portfolio/platform/ I've seen it being used in quite a few rooms in Munich, but of course there could me many reasons to it. |
Perfect example of Stove Piping. 🏭 Oft times times things get developed like stove pipes for better or worse. Over here we use our own Isolation stands. Townsend seems to be the big exception. Whereas you guys use your own isolation stands. Oblivious to the other guys’. How many isolation devices are there now, worldwide? 20? 30? More? You’re a Stove Piper, Stove Piper, Stove Piper, Stove Piper, Stove Piper, Stove Piper, Stove Yes you are! |
Geoffkait- that’s just weird..... 😜 There are lots of good products out there. Here, there, everywhere. We can’t easily get their stuff and they can’t easily get our stuff. We use ours and they use thars. But I don’t care if they have Stars on Thars or No Stars on Thars. Sneetches on beeches don’t listen to stereos anyway! I haven’t had time to do anything except obsess endlessly about what layout rack I should go with. 3x2, 2x2 with amp stands, or something creative. |
Evaluation of the Mojo Mystique V3:
Benjamin of Mojo Audio was kind enough to send me a Mojo Audio Mystique V3 ladder chip PCM only DAC (Spec’s at bottom of report). Converts up to 24/192 via a USB, Coax or Toslink input. Comes in 2 flavors: single ended at around $5555- and balanced at around $7555- (Don’t know the reason for the price difference but I believe it is parts cost related, which makes sense). He also offers a matching music server he calls the Déjà vu available in both Linux and Windows versions for around $4555- which he will be sending to be towards the end of the month. I did not request these evaluations. Benjamin reached out to me as he felt his product deserved a bit of recognition and I’m always happy to hear more gear at any price as long as I am given the time to allow it to burn in and take my time to offer opinions. SO here we go….
Case and build: It appears to be a folded sheet metal case beautifully finished in a black crinkle coat. Although not a solid thunk when you tap on the top like a milled case wound do, it’s also not the hollow clang you get from lesser sheet metal construction. Very simple and elegant design up front with only 3 input buttons and a silk screened name. The back has well laid out inputs and outputs, and a solid IEC connector that can hold a heavy aftermarket power cable without issue. Power switch is on back. Simple feet underneath clearly would benefit from one of the myriad of aftermarket products I have recently been playing with. I’d suggest the IsoAcoustic Gaia or Orea for an easy inexpensive upgrade; or go for the Symposium rollerbocks or HRS Nimbus for a more expensive higher level upgrade. What you give is what you get with these footers. I’d also suggest a good aftermarket powercord as it clearly benefited from the higher end power cables I tried. As everyone knows, I’m a HUGE Shunyata fan…
From a functional standpoint I ran it off of my Memory Player (via USB) with a driver and off of my Linux based Aurender N10 (via USB and spdif) both without issue. Benjamin was available for tech support when needed, but it was needed rarely. The N10 is as rock solid as always and links right up to any DAC you connect to it via any output you try or all of them simultaneously. After trying both the spdif and the usb from the N10 I preferred the USB. Now I think the USB is a better output from the N10 anyway, so it probably isn’t a fair statement. But if given a choice I would use the USB input on the Mystique; that’s just me…. There is no remote needed as it has three input buttons that are push and play, set and forget. Done.
So, how does it sound. Well, I asked for the balanced version so I was evaluating a $7555- DAC. I was told my Benjamin that the single ended and balanced essentially sound the same but just service the cable selected the best it can (Ben, please comment if incorrect). I’m gonna get the finale out of the way early – At $5555- , if the single ended does in fact sound the same as the balanced, then there is N-O-T-H-I-N-G currently available that can come close to the performance of the Mystique V3, that I have heard (and I have heard MOST of what’s available). At $7555- the balanced version is rubbing elbows with some bigger players that are serious performers. $8K is in Jeff Rowland, ODSE, Lampy territory and what I would consider to be serious competition. But lets get to specifics…
Soundstage is wide, deep and clearly limited by the speakers and room treatments more then the DAC. I got the same depth and width from the ODSX (which is my $13+K resident DAC, and one of my favorites) as from the Mystique V3. Image specificity was better defined with the ODSX but not much. It was more the air around the performers that was more defined, natural and “airy” with the ODSX than the actual performers. Height was about the same. There was a sense of natural presence with the ODSX that the V3 lacked, but at $6K more this is almost an unfair comparison…
Tonal color was wonderful and just right. Not warm, not lean, not overly accurate, not mushy or soft. This DAC is dynamic, punchy but not overly so, develops proper leading and trailing edge although not quite as prolonged and “thorough” as the ODSX. It just doesn’t do anything wrong or offensive; I cant see anyone NOT liking this DAC. The V3 offers a sense of presence that some more expensive DAC’s that I have heard struggle to reproduce. That sense of “they are they and in the room” was quite impressive for a DAC at this price range and Ben should be proud of this, because its not easy to achieve. Again, compared to my ODSX it did not offer the level of layer, depth and harmonic complexity but what it offers it correct and above the performance of many other DAC’s for the same amount and more. I have not heard a sub $10K Lampy DAC in a while, but from memory this and the Lampy are both in the same category for solid state and tube variants of a great sub $10K DAC. As everyone knows I am a HUGE fan of the ODSE and think it would be a hard choice between the two… The Rowland Aeris is another option that is also an over performer at this price range. With the external power supply I could see it being better then the V3, but the Aeris with power supply is also well over $10K.
The DAC switched between resolutions without a hiccup and gave a proportionate improvement with resolution change that was proper and luxurious.
There was not a moment I wasn’t tapping my feet or swaying my head to the music. Really a great DAC.
SO, if you are looking for a single ended DAC you’d be a fool to not listen to the sub $6K single ended Mystique V3! For a balanced DAC in the sub $10k range the V3 is a must audition. And since its available from a small company I would imagine arranging an audition would be much easier then some of the boutique store alternatives… Of course, DSD lovers need not apply. Then again, the Aeris and ODSE don’t do DSD either… and I don’t know about the Lampy.
I look forward to hearing the Déjà Vu with the V3 when it arrives! What a treat Ben. Thanks for the fun times!!!
Specs:
· Built around Analog Devices’ legendary monolithic AD1862 R-2R ladder DAC chips. · Converts PCM format files up to 24-bit 192KHz via USB, coaxial S/PDIF, or TosLink. · Vishay TX2575 "nude" resistors matched to 0.1% tolerance throughout analog signal path. · Direct-coupled ultrahigh-performance Sparkos discrete op amps in the output stage. · No output transformers or coupling capacitors to narrow bandwidth or distort phase. · Hardware-based demultiplexing to ensure perfect phase and time coherency. · Independent circuits adjust MSB for left and right channels at the zero voltage crossing. · Five independent choke input power supplies with Mundorf M-Lytic AG+ 4-pole capacitors. · Twelve Belleson ultralow-noise regulators isolate every type of IC chip and clock. · Laboratory grade filtered IEC input combined with multistage cascaded AC filtering. · High-performance Furutech connectors and cotton covered UniCrystal silver hookup wire. · Anti-resonant polymerized aluminum composite chassis with ferrous internal shielding. · Sorbothane anti-resonant standoffs under PC boards and Sorbothane feet under chassis. · Field convertible from 110VAC to 250VAC both 50Hz and 60Hz. (100VAC is Special order). · Solid brass ground post and DC ground lift for optimized system grounding. · 17.5"W x 3.25"H x 12"D and 23 pounds. |
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Matt, most certainly the Lampis do DSD...the Atlantic is about 4K and does PCM via discrete ladder and chipless DSD up to 256 standard and 512 as an option. Stock is about $4k with Si rectifier. A+ with tube rectifier is like $1K more. Golden Atlantic is circa $8K with primo rectifier and internal Gucci parts. I have had the A+ to play with and heard a GA and while my GG is better, they are "badass" Dacs! |
I have to admit this Mystique V3 is growing on me. It’s stupid good for the money! It has a sense of natural presentation, texture and harmonics while still attaining accuracy and clarity that is hard to achieve. It’s intimate when it needs to be, and big and voluptuous when asked to be. I’d put it comfortably in the “if it were twice as expensive I wouldn’t think twice” category. Anyone looking in this price range would be doing themselves a great disservice to not consider the Mystique. It’s REALLY good! |
Hi Everyone. Benjamin from Mojo Audio here. I love the concept of this thread. Something like over 80% of all the recorded music that is commercially available is only available in 16-bit 44.1KHz. So IMO the most important thing for a DAC to do well is to decode Red Book CDs. Matt's most recent comments about our DAC having "natural presentation, texture and harmonics" is spot on. That is specifically what my goal is when engineering a DAC. In my experience, the most important character in a source is "harmonic coherency." Harmonic structure is what makes acoustic instruments sound correct. Once the harmonic structure is messed up it can never be regained with other cables and components later in the signal chain. There were a few comments Matt made that I wanted to address... He mentions our chassis. Our unique 2-piece chassis is the product of nearly a decade of R&D. Our chassis is constructed from an extremely thick polymerized aluminum composite with 100% non-magnetic stainless steel hardware. From our tests the polymerized aluminum composite we use has about 11% lower mechanical resonance than the identical chassis with an anodized aluminum finish. But that is only the beginning. We use a thick EMI/RFI ferrous shield to isolate the power supply from the signal board. Fact is that aluminum is a very poor EMI shield which is why we are not such big fans of these all aluminum "billet" chassis. And both the signal board and the power supply boards mount to Sorbothane standoffs for ever better anti-resonant isolation. In order to use Sorbothane mounts on the PCBs all the connectors on the rear of the chassis have to "float." This is why our USB input is recessed and why it appears to be lose - it is mounted on Sorbothane. Our chassis also comes standard with high-performance mass-loaded Sorbothane feet. Of course I agree with Matt that there are several aftermarket feet that perform better. For example, we offer Stillpoints Ultra Minis or Ultra SS feet as an upgrade option. The Stillpoints thread right into the same 6-32 threaded holes as our stock Sorbothane feet. But I have to say that my personal favorite anti-resonance feet are the Herbie's Audio Labs Iso-Cups with their Moss Quartz balls (too bad they're discontinued). I also recommend two of the Herbie's Sonic Stabilizer "pucks" on top of our DAC to reduce mechanical resonance even more. It actually blew our minds that even with all the anti-resonant technologies we incorporate into our chassis how much of an improvement stabilizing weights on top of the chassis actually make. Another very unique feature on our Mystique v3 DAC is the five independent choke input power supplies. Input chokes are rarely used these days in anything but the best-of-the-best of tube amps. I've never seen them used in any other low-current solid state power supply aside from our Mystique v3 DAC. The input chokes account for about 20% of the size and weight of our DAC. Most audiophiles have no idea what the difference is between a power supply with just capacitance filtering, capacitance and a choke Pi filtering, or an input choke with capacitance filtering. Below is a short explanation of how an input choke works. Choke input power supplies were engineered roughly 90-years ago by Western Electric. By adding a choke between the rectifier and first capacitor of a power supply the crest factor, heat, and parts wear are reduced by literally 50%. The choke also acts as a reservoir for power and pre-regulates the DC doubling the efficiency and effectiveness of each consecutive stage of filtering. Our power supply concept combines the best of old-school heavy iron choke input regulation with modern ultralow-noise ultrahigh-dynamic regulators resulting in a power supply with significantly lower noise and faster dynamic response that runs significantly cooler and lasts significantly longer. It is the choke input power supplies that account for much of the natural character and harmonic coherency in our Mystique v3 DAC. We've found that no matter what else you do, you can't get that same natural character and musical flow with any other type of power supply. Something else I thought I would mention is my blogs. Two of the most popular are "The 24-Bit Delusion" and "DSD vs PCM: Myth vs Truth." https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/the-24bit-delusion/ https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/ Some people have commented over the years that I wrote these blogs to promote my DACs, but it was actually the other way around. After researching the different types of digital topologies and learning about what the math and science actually means, I came to the conclusion that a 20-bit R-2R ladder DAC has the purest form of PCM decoding. Combine that with the fact that over 80% of all the recorded music commercially available is only available in 16-bit 44.1KHz PCM, and you now know why I chose to engineer my Mystique DACs the way I do ;-) |
mattnshilp OP Who would have thought, "Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD", with R2R Ladder Multibit dac I came to the conclusion that a 20-bit R-2R ladder DAC has the purest form of PCM decoding. Tried to explain this year or so ago Benjamin for PCM redbook replay, but they were so caught up in the Delta Sigma dsd storm, they couldn't see the forest through the trees. Cheers George |
Victims of marketing. A few years ago at RMAF we held a contest (with some pretty cool prizes) to determine if people could guess the resolution of of five songs. We had a 25 song playlist printed on a single page with columns for song names and check boxes to the right for "16/44.1" and "24/96" and "24/192." We literally passed out a dozen clip boards and had a pile of sharpened pencils at the info table when you enter. Each Attendee had to stay for five songs and mark a check next to what resolution they thought each song was. We had a few hundred Attendees enter the contest. How many songs out of five do you think the average person got right? NONE. We had about a dozen prizes and had trouble finding enough people that got ONE out of five guesses correct. We had to give one of the prizes to a person that crossed out and wrote over but their crossed out guess was right (seriously). Not one person could even get two right. BTW, more than half of the songs we used were nothing more than well recorded 16-bit 44.1KHz Reed Book CD rips. What does that tell you? |
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One of my complaints about SACD is they all seem to have no ’room’ played in. The music all seems to ’magically’ float out of a black hole. On double-layer SACD's, particularly live recordings and orchestral I found exactly the same thing to be true. I'll take PCM every time. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Elizabeth, Your observation is astute and one I can certainly relate to. I’ve (comfortably) accepted my probably minority position of finding Redbook CD generally more natural sounding than SACD when comparing them. This goes against the grain but it is what I consistently hear. Interesting that you’ve had similar findings. The "inky black" (black hole as you put it) background devoid of any sense of ambience (room) presence always struck me as artificial and un-natural. This again goes against the grain for many audiophiles and I understand that. Mitch2 alludes to this in regard to his experiences with class D amplifiers and I get his point. One thing is certainly undeniably true, we all hear and interpret what we hear very differently. Despite the criticism of 16/44.1 often receives in terms of it’s supposed limitations I find it an excellent sounding medium with the right playback equipment. Charles |
I've found that some DACs do a good job with PCM, other DACs do a good job with DSD, and few DACs do a good job with both. There are so many types and qualities of DSD recordings. Some are made direct to DSD in the most modern of studios and many are made from old analog or PCM masters with a wide range of qualities. I know that "sterile" DSD character you guys are referring to, and I think that is more a characteristic sound of specific DACs and specific recordings than a universal limitation of DSD. I've heard some DSD recordings sound breathtaking and lifelike. I've heard some sound worse than the average CD. I've heard some that were very impressively resolving but with a weird "sterile" background. I could make similar comments about CDs and other PCM recordings. |
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mitch21,597 posts04-15-2018 6:29pm One of my complaints about SACD is they all seem to have no ’room’ played in. The music all seems to ’magically’ float out of a black hole. Stripped of any ambience.Interestingly, this is in the ballpark of describing my issue with the Class D amplification I have owned. Not all Class D should be described in this way, in fact quite the opposite in some cases. |
elizabeth mitch2 charles1dad These to me are the results of stripping of the harmonic structure of the music and leaving nothing but a dead black hole/silence, "there is not much decay left to see or hear back into". This is what Delta Sigma/Mash did when it was first released back in 1990 and still does now to Redbook PCM conversion, it gives a facsimile of the real thing, where R2R Multibit is bit perfect. And it’s also what Class-D does to amplification. This maybe helped with future technology, with 3, 4 or 5 times higher switching frequency, so the output filters can do their job properly and get rid of all the switching noise completely without coming near the upper harmonics of the audio band. Cheers George |
With all due respect to George I’m inclined more toward Elizabeth’s explanation in attributing the void or black hole effect to the recording method or process. . I don’t believe that delta sigma can be the blamed in a broad brush fashion as the culprit. I’ve done direct comparisons of delta sigma (D’S) DACs vs R2R Yamamoto YDA 01a (DS) vs Holo Spring level 3 DAC (R2R) and Bricasti M1 DAC(DS) vs Total DAC 1 six (R2R) and LampiZator level 5 DAC. In terms of note substain, decay, venue ambience, sense of presence etc. The two DS DACs were every bit the equal if not out right superior to the very good R2R DACs regarding these parametersas well as others. Based on my listening I don’t believe that sweeping generalizations between DS and R2R hold up under scrutiny. I can appreciate the idea based on theory but I’m referring to actual listening experiences in the same audio systems. Respectfully, Charles |
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@beewax +1 I agree. My strategy if I were to try to put some methodology to the task would be to 1) go for the most jitter immune, cleanest, lowest distortion and highest SNR DAC available. This would obviously be a new DAC within the last year or two. It might be too lean and analytical for the desired goal of “musicality” and engagement tie tapping but you start with the bare truth and a reference signal. 2) Get the most resolving SS power amp - Benchmark ABH2 looks impressive. Again the power amp should be powerful and transparent - a Bryston, Pass Labs, Krell - there are plenty of choices. 3) Roll preamps and roll preamp tubes until you find the desired sound. I think the strategy of using using every component (DAC, Preamp and power amp) to ALL create or add musical warmth is a never ending uncontrolled dog’s breakfast. Another alternative would be to stick with one manufacturer - go all ARC for example - at least there is a good chance that the equipment has synergy to begin with, |
+1 @beewax I agree. I would suggest to use the cleanest high performance DAC I could find for the most resolving line level source signal and then use a tube preamp and roll tubes to taste for the musical taste. This approach is much more flexible. Buying a DAC with tubes built in is kind of limiting or restricting yourself... |
This is what Delta Sigma/Mash did when it was first released back in 1990 and still does now to Redbook PCM conversion, it gives a facsimile of the real thing, where R2R Multibit is bit perfect. I would have to disagree. It's poor digital filtering that causes this, not Delta-Sigma. My Delta-Sigma sounds a lot like an R2R. My last DAC was an R2R. My latest is Delta-Sigma. It beats my previous R2R. Steve N . Empirical Audio |
My strategy is a bit different, and I have attained audio nirvana I would argue. No personal attack here, just different. 1) go for the most jitter immune, cleanest, lowest distortion and highest SNR DAC available. This would obviously be a new DAC within the last year or two. It might be too lean and analytical for the desired goal of “musicality” and engagement tie tapping but you start with the bare truth and a reference signal. I am almost never impressed with the quality of the master clocks inside DACs. They are almost never good enough. This includes power delivery and associated dividers and buffers/selectors etc.. I would much prefer to sell to a customer that has a DAC with NO reclocking or jitter reduction, at least on the S/PDIF coax inputs. 2) Get the most resolving SS power amp - Benchmark ABH2 looks impressive. Again the power amp should be powerful and transparent - a Bryston, Pass Labs, Krell - there are plenty of choices. I would pick Wells Audio, Merrill Audio, D’agostino or get a good SET tube amp. I have been auditioning amps at shows for 20 years, as well as speakers. 3) Roll preamps and roll preamp tubes until you find the desired sound I would eliminate the active preamp and drive direct from the DAC or use a passive transformer linestage. Preamps are the worst offenders for coloring/distorting sound quality. Just get rid of them unless they are $10K+ tube preamps. I do agree on tube rolling. Critical step. Be prepared to spend some time and money and resell the rejects on ebay. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Steve, thanks for speaking up about 'the best way to build a DAC'. For those who say one is superior to Delta Sigma, you can't make that statement. It's just not true. If you feel that way for YOUR DAC's that's fine, but personal. Many of us have owned both and liked the D/S ones that we've purchased better. Implementation. Many other factors. |
With all due respect to George I’m inclined more toward Elizabeth’s explanation in attributing the void or black hole effect to the recording method or process. I love the fact that there are so many manufacturers now bringing back R2R Multibit, even though many are now mostly discrete ladder, and expensive to make, and shrugging off dsd, for better pcm replay. It says to me there was something about PCM conversion that was not quite right when done with DS conversion. Owning and doing many mods for myself and customers on both with I/V stages and output stages from the very first DS mash players and R2R players And listening to many. There is something missing with DS when it has to convert PCM, it's not just an emptiness, but missing a bogie factor that gives excitement to the music, and a snap your head back slam, even though the DS measurements show better sn/dr figures. It's as though DS converting PCM is most of the time too polite, eg: boring. But it does do dsd/sacd well, but I still find it lacking in excitement with these formats especially sacd.. Cheers George |
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I can speak for my own modified SET amp. Very fast and great bass control. Same with D'agostino amps. Some of the best I have heard at shows. I am a fan of tube SET amps though and would not have SS for myself anymore. Tubes are just more linear and less prone to temperature and dynamic effects. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
There is something missing with DS when it has to convert PCM, it's not just an emptiness, but missing a bogie factor that gives excitement to the music, and a snap your head back slam, even though the DS measurements show better sn/dr figures. I don't experience any of this with my D-S DAC. These are more a result of poor digital filter and poor power delivery IME. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Steve N, Thank you for your reply and I see the common ground of SET and the D’Agostino amplifiers. Speed and transparency as a shared trait. I find SET unsurpassed in terms of "naturalness ". George it’s comments such as yours that prompted my DAC comparisons mentioned above regarding R2R vs delta sigma. I respect your perspectives but my direct listening did not match your assertions. IMHO either approach can yield superb results. I don’t hear the delta sigma limitations/flaws as you describe. Steve N puts the blame on digital filtering and power delivery quality and this makes sense to me. This would cause effects for both DS and R2R for better or worse dependant of level of implementation and execution. Charles |
Charlie Hansen also agrees. He disliked DSD personally. He also knew how to filter properly. George it's absolute statements like your's that turn many off. Many of us listen to all designs and products and we use our ears. There are great designs on both sides. The way you post, you are saying that any R2R design sounds better than any DAC that is D/S. Teh only absolute in the discussion is that you are plain wrong. No one is dismissing the R2R being able to sound world class. How about speakers George? Are you going to tell us a certain crossover design being better than another? Again, totally subjective. As Charles and nearly anyone else who has any audio sense will say, it's all about implementation. If you disagree with that, then you lose any credibility with most folks I would think. Your constant R2R gets old. Very dismissive of even a designer like Steve who most of use feel makes one of the best DAC's available. I've owned and loved his DAC that was R2R and have been told by many I trust that his new DS DAC is a lot better. One designer, builds one of each and implants them both in an outstanding manor. He chose DS for his top design. I realize you will dismiss him by staying on your R2R platform, but that's not cool as he's ever said that R2R can't make a great DAC. |
