CT- PM me and I will email both you and Matt together. Matt has my email address.
Your goal is to have quality, simplicity, reliability and versatility.
Fiber optic is just an alternative to wired Ethernet. It is much cheaper than moderate priced ethernet cable and it provides galvanic isolation. Like your power lines the Ethernet cable carries other currents that mess up digital electronics, especially the DAC clocks. The switch power supplies are part of this issue.
In your situation, wireless will not have enough range to reliably drop two or more floors. Wireless will limit high resolution files both DSD and PCM. Optical can run adjacent to electrical cable, whereas low voltage cables need to be 18" away, depending on local code. When they cross ideally they would cross at perpendicular angles.
Second option is to have two independent systems: Comcast provides two accounts: two modems and two independent networks. While this may decrease certain noise perse, you would give up versatility and create some redundancy. Although two NAS systems would provide some backup.
To run cable would not be too expensive and you can find someone to do it for you for reasonable price. In your situation, I sense you are running dedicated power. I would run fiber down to your listening room. From there the options are many and easily changed when needed--especially important as digital audio is rapidly evolving.
A newer NAS (not my generation NAS) has the advantage of negating the need of a server or separate CORE processor running ROON. I however do not see a sonic advantage at the moment since your NAS is a large source of electrical pollution. I am also researching HQPlayer and if that program will process files then use UPnP/DNLA type protocol. I am uncertain if a ROON>HQPlayer will process then send by RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) codec to RAAT capable Ethernet units. My understanding thus far- HQ player will process (by server) and send by USB to a USB dac only. For clarity ROON, RAAT and HQ Player are new to me.
Does the new EMM dac have Ethernet?
I’d rather not distract from the overall thread. I will post any valuable and succinct solutions when appropriate. |
There are currently only 4 DAC’s that I would love to hear in my room: DCS Rossini, Trinity DAC, Dual Mono TotalDAC and the Chord DAVE. If anyone has the ability to help me hear any of these in my listening room please let me know.
I am going to do some research on the Ethernet solution. I look forward to Ketcham’s email as well. I asked Steve of Empirical Audio and he said that "I just open Jriver and select audio and its there. Nothing more to do".
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Regarding the Chord DAVE, it is reported to be exceptional with PCM possibly even setting a new standard regarding its natural recovery of depth and decay. However its performance level with DSD is not at the same level, and to maximize its sound quality requires a reboot of the DAC which takes about 20 seconds. So playlists with a combination of PCM and DSD files are not well suited to optimal playback with the DAVE DAC. For users with all PCM files it may be the ultimate DAC solution. |
Ketch, I wasn't able to send a PM. Didn't see how. Matt is sending my phone and email. Thanks. Looking forward.
I've heard the DCS stacks a few times in various systems. They were very very good. I liked the Trinity a lot when I've heard it. Better than the Berk Ref for me by a fair amount, but the system I heard it in was exceptional and set up properly in a great room. Heard DAVE in the city and it was good, but I hated the speakers (over 100k I think) and that ruined it, but I could tell the DAC was very good and a top contender. Can't wait for the AyreQX5/twenty, but that's still only their mid level so I'll take that into consideration. I'm expecting a lot, but I can't see it in the same ball park as the OSDX. I should have just kept the OSDE and begged Steve to do the upgrade for me, lol. Didnt' think he would. Live and learn. |
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Actually mtruong, it's ODSX. That's the name of Steve's newest DAC. Yes, I transposed two of the letters. sorry about that. |
ctsooner- I agree. Ayre is fantastic.
While I do have limited experience, I have found Ayre to be the most enjoyable DAC, befitting of my musical tastes/preferences and wallet. I was able to compare to dB Labs Tranquility SE, Auralic and ifi iDSD. Hope to try an Empirical Audio on day! Read great things. Cheers
Thanks for great thread question mattnshilp- No right answer, but lots of options |
Veracity Chrysalis DAC seem to be another contender in this league as of course is the Aries Cerat Kassandra MK2 DAC. Apologies on both counts if these were raised already.
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I"ll get the Ayre, but there is a short list of DAC's I'm going to want to try and listen to before I decide to keep it. Most will have to be used for me to afford, but with the every evolving world of digital, that shouldn't be a problem. Bricasti's, the new ODSX, EMM, Ayre's 5 series and a few others that are also from small companies like Steve's. There really are so many great options right now. Dealers can no longer afford to just carry a DAC line because they have the amp line. I really feel that they will need to carry three high end DAC's and a few more of the mid priced ones. That's not to say that analog is dead or anything like that. I still love putting on a record, but my money goes into digital right now and used records that I can usually get for under $2. |
Dealers can no longer afford to carry anything if you and everyone keep buying used on the Gon. Just saying.
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dcs could be an option at your price. also esoteric, emm labs and I have heard the moon 780d dac/streamer which is very good, new chord dave excellent. lots of very good choices for you at the price point you are looking. really like what I read about the ps audio but dealer friend believes moon for example has much better output stage/sound. good luck |
Matt- why have you ruled out Playback Designs Merlot DAC? Have Andreas Koch's products fallen behind or is the price for performance not in line with today's market?
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jwm, what your post for me? If so, I buy at dealers nearly all the time. Every now and then I will purchase used when I know who has the products I want and can't afford otherwise. I fully support local dealers. I do agree that the used market has really hurt the dealer networks. |
The review on Audio Stream today is a must read folks. All about some of the posters here using optical runs, converters etc.... Had a great convo with Steve tonight and can't wait for some of you guys to start getting thoughts to keyboard on the ODSX run in ethernet mode. Matt must be drooling about now waiting for his, lol.... |
Who will be at Audio Connections in Verona, NJ next Saturday the 30th for the Northeast premier of the Ayre QX5/Twenty Digital front end/DAC? They will set it up with the Vandersteen 7 mk 2 and the Ayre ref gear. Everyone is invited. Johnny Rutan who owns the place has been mentioned in the last two Stereophile articles on Jazz musicians and their systems. Just spoke to Billy Drummand who is the jazz drummer they wrote about last month will try to be there for a bit. let me know if you can make it. If so, I'm the one using a rollator (walker with wheels). Please stop by and say hello. I have the QX5 on order and can't wait. Alex from Ayre will be there to show off his new DAC. Can't wait. hope to see folks there.
Just post here if you can or may make it.
I'm hoping that Alex from Ayre will be bringing his Melco N1A NAS with him. It will be interesting to listen to this brand new DAC, that just started to ship to dealers this week. I'd love to meet a bunch of you guys so let me know if you can make it. Pete
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Single box is better...get a leftover Krell Cipher for CD's...you will want for not ever again!
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Single box better??? No, not at all. My Empirical Audio and server sounded much better than any one box I've ever heard. I'll be very honest right now and I know I'm not the only one who feels this year, but I like the sound of the Empirical with my current server better than the DCS Rossini. I'm not a DCS fan, but I'm familiar with many of the CD players or CD players with digital inputs and none of them have sounded as good as many of the DAC's I've heard. The Krell was out in 2012 and maybe earlier. It's very dated right now. The Ayre QX5 is using a chip that hasn't even been fully released to others yet and it got custom filters just for Ayre. The ODSE/SE I just sold is unreal and the soon to be released ODSX will be THAT much better I'm sure. Bricasti M1 SE is also updated and outstanding. There are way too many great sounding DAC's in all price ranges. As for servers, there are the custom made ones that fix all the problems that CD players have had. Sorry, just can't buy into a CD player right now. BTW, I have heard that Krell on many occasions and never was able to warm up to it, but that's my ear. I'm happy that you love it and will never want for any other digital again. |
I'm sure you have had success ctsooner, but I can't afford more $4K power cords or $12K interconnects. If I'm missing anything it most likely isn't musical information....any more atmosphere and low level detail will put me on the level of Quantum Music! Growing up I was enthralled with a Sansui Receiver, Bozak speakers and a Garrard/Sure source lashed up with zip wire! I'm definitely good to go. Happy listening:) |
Dave, I get it, I really do, but when did I ever mention cables that cost that much? Also, this whole thread is about the BEST sounding redbook DAC not which 12k CD player is nice. As for detail, you have to have detail and it needs to be delivered in proper time in order to get the best sound. Again, that's the whole premise of the thread. I was and am not trying to be snarky in any way. I appreciate great sounding systems that aren't costly, but you referenced a 12CD player that is 3k more than my new Ayre QX5 and it doesn't do nearly as much.
I had two posters here ask me what your post meant and what you are trying to say. I'm not sure I know either. not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand your point in context to what Matt has been posting about. Thanks. |
Sorry...not really trying to force any particular point, other than I have found a single box player with really good power delivery, ancillaries and interconnects can give you world class sound. I do understand however that the world has moved on from CD's....for that I have a digital module in my amp. Most of my music has been collected over decades and represents a vast array of material that is no longer available...certainly not as a digital download. My main system is for serious listening only anyway....no background crap or social schmultz! |
Dave that's cool. It's all good. This thread has a life of its own anyways and we r waiting on Matt and a few of us who are waiting on new or upgrades DACs to discuss lol. |
Guys, the show at Audio connections on Sat was a ton of fun. Michael from Audiostream showed up and we spoke most of the day (sorry Michael, lol). Alex from Ayre showed off the QX5 and Roon. First time for each for me. I really enjoyed Roon and will incorporate it into my new digital set up I'm thinking. Ketch, we NEED to speak, lol.
No true impressions of the QX since it only had 30 hours on it at best. It DID warm up and by 6pm is was sounding surprisingly good for that few hours on it. I was enjoying the music, where earlier in the day I couldn't listen. This is WHY you can't judge gear until it's fully broken in. I heard the bones of this thing though and I can tell that it's a winner that punches well above it's price of 9k. Ten digital inputs of every type. Streamer built in and easy to set up and use. I honestly like that, plus it's a good looking unit that is built in true Ayre fashion. Flawless construction and solid throughout. I got to spend a ton of time with Alex Brinkmann as we all went out to eat afterwards too. A really fun day.
Alex spoke about the special digital and analog filtering they are able to do by working with ESS on the DAC. The unit implements their new double diamond analog stage as well as double filtering of the RF on the incoming power. The unit has a very very low noise floor and they have optimized each of the ten inputs. Even the satellite TV will sound better according to Alex and I have no reason to not believe him. He's very open and honest about his gear. Even the weaknesses of some pieces. he likes to get feedback so they can keep engineering better products and improve what they have. I was very impressed as you can all tell.
The sound of the headphone single ended jack with 0 hours breaking was balanced as heck. It's basically the award winning Codex headphone amp with the best parts Ayre could find. With the money to play with for the headphone jack, they decided to make a world class headphone amp that has both balanced as well as 1/4" and 3.5mm single ended inputs. Those of you who own a source and DAC/headphone amp will LOVE this piece. I think it could become one of THOSE DACS as it will be an all in one piece for your personal audio system. You can just stream Tidal or Qbuz (however it's spelled) and call it a day with a pair of LCD3/4's or Hifiman 1000's or the new Focal Utopias.
I can't wait to get mine and break it in. Just wanted to share what I have for now. Color me duly impressed so far. |
Greetings Everyone.
I wanted to update you regarding Steve Nugent's Empirical Overdrive Diamond SX with the
optional internal galvanic isolated Ethernet direct I2S converter cpu. I
have run the is unit 24/7 for now over 1000 hours and I must admit the caps
needed this time to break in. This will be the first dac that I felt
needed over 6 weeks of almost continuous play to break in. However, this
is one instance where patience paid dividends.
Since we all have our own perception and certainly favor different qualities, I
am not going to delve into a lengthy review. The qualities that stand out
and I believe most would agree, the dac is well balanced on all fronts and
certainly demonstrates design implementation is more important than the dac
chip itself. Historically, I have been approached by others who felt the
ODSE was overly analytical. I humbly disagreed as I found it to be
detailed, accurate and perhaps unforgiving. While I found the SE
emotionally engaging, the SX is addictive.
The more dacs I audition, I find myself with a preference to
non-oversampling design implementation. My goal is to compare this unit
to a R2R ladder dac, Totaldac, and will report my results. At 4x the
price, it would have to engage me on an entirely different level. Steve's
dac chip is proprietary and I feel discussing design theory should be left to
the electrical engineers.
At first blush, I had found little difference between the ODSE and the ODSX.
Over time the Diamond SX bloomed, creating an even more precise
presentation of the music. Well-recorded
intimate recordings immersed me into a room of musicians. Big venue live recordings placed me back from
the stage, closer to the soundboard, creating a deep and viable soundstage. Both the ODSE and the ODSX have been the best
interpolating PCM data and recreating an accurate presentation of the
recording, especially piano, wind instruments, and particularly the mid and
upper range of percussion decay. I still
hold to my initial assessment years ago.
I have yet to find a DSD dac that performs better than Steve’s
implementation of PCM. However, I have
not heard a ground up designed DSD only (non PCM) dac.
The chassis is no
different that the ODSE. The faceplate
now states SX in place of SE and the knob has a very subtle recessed
diamond. Nice touch but for those who
upgrade their SE to SX, I would keep your old faceplate and save money. The rear panel is the same. Mine had a manual cutout where the Ethernet
input replaced the USB. This does bring
me to another point: For those of you
who will upgrade, the ODSE/X run hot.
The morphology of the circuit boards change and this will affect the
soldering. I highly recommend you pay
the extra nominal fee and use a virgin board.
Longevity is essential. While I
am sure Steve will service these units well into retirement, save yourself the
headache.
Those of us who owned
these units before know these units run hot.
While breaking in, I ran the unit in my office on my desk, which is
quartz composite. The unit ran hot, up
to 208* over the Ethernet board. Steve
assured me this is not an issue. When I
placed in my system on Bubinga wood, the temperature dropped by 50* while being
relocated in direct sunlight and reset to high-output line out. Surfaces matter, ventilation matters. I have run this dac hard without failures on
any level.
The Ethernet
DNLA/UPnP is simpler, more robust, and strait forward. Unlike USB, Ethernet packets of data are
checked for errors and packets with errors are resent. The more I read about USB implementation,
more validating why I despised it and found it universally inferior to
AES/EBU. ROON uses its own RAAT protocol
in place of DNLA/UPnP. The third party
company which designed the Ethernet to I2S converter CPU chip has no interest
in RAAT. ROON states they will implement
DNLA but with no timeline. Because of
this current incompatibility, I have not pursued ROON at this juncture. One manufacture who uses this CPU has figured
a work around and was able to implement ROON RAAT. However this was not to an I2S
conversion. Through Bubble UPnP and Linn
Kazoo (both free) I am able to stream Tidal without any issue. Linn Kazoo is not on the same league as ROON
or even Tidal’s own controller. To say
it plainly, the user interface sucks.
There are many third
party controllers. Some are free, while
some are cheap to purchase. They all work
well, and I give credit to this third party manufacturer. Not all Ethernet dacs/Renderers have this level
of performance. Please note: I find those controllers that send a file
direct from NAS to the DAC without processing sound better. Those who have interest in this topic please
PM me for more detail and discussion. I
would love to learn where others have found success and discovered absolute ‘do
not’s’.
I wish to commend
Steve on a well designed dac. Thank you
for reigniting my passion for this hobby.
This last year has been somewhat frustrating for me. High-end components do not necessarily play
well together and this certainly has been a journey. When my wife leaves a concert and says that
sounded as good as listening at home, she is complementing the venue…and Steve
the credit belongs to you.
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For anyone who has been following this discussion, there is currently an Overdrive SE for sale in the classifieds. Steve has it with him now and can upgrade it to SX status if you desire. It is a fully loaded with accessories, and every bit as good as reported earlier in the thread. |
Hello Ketcham,
I am glad you are enjoying your SX DAC.
I am curious whether you are using the DAC’s volume control and/or Steve’s Final Drive, or do you run your DAC to a preamp?
Have you tried either (the volume control or the Final Drive) and if so what did you think of them?
Thanks for sharing any insights. |
Although currently i am not using Steve's volume control, it is designed in such a way to present the information in bit perfect form nor loose dynamics in the output stage. The old Meitner Museatex bidat had a similar design.
ODSE > Final Drive > Allnic A6000 mono blocks was far superior to ODSE > Allnic L3000 > Allnic A6000, as if wool blankets three layers thick were removed from the speakers providing more depth, detail, improved clarity and imaging. The Allnic retails for $13,000.
I since replaced the Allnic L3000 with the $23,000 L5000 DHT, which I purchased used for $10,000. The sound was different but of a comparable quality. With a DHT/Transformer based system, there is limited benefit adding the final drives. I believe Matt, also with a high quality pre-amplifier found no benefit.
I have not tried this comparison again with the ODSX, but will report back when I am able to give it the focus it needs. Per Steve's recommendations I am trying a loom of Antipodes Reference cables. My system likes balanced cables better and I will sell off my High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Loom. One of my amps gets a 60/120 Hz low noise with balanced cable while using the VH Audio Plasmatron. It follows the amp, but could be the balanced cable design. I believe the Plasmatron adds significant benefit to Steve's DAC. Matt tried his on my recommendation and didn't like it. So eventually I will see where things settle out.
This is my long winded answer. The Final Drives are passive using quality transformers. For the price, I have yet to see anything better. His DAC plus Final drive to amplifier is an excellent combination and definitely a reasonable price. For me buying and selling gear often is a money losing proposition and getting the sound I desire was met with this consequence, more so than I care to admit. Through this process, I learned to trust Steve's ear. In hindsight, I wish I invested in the ODSX with Ethernet input/Findal Drive combination and focused my resources elsewhere. This would negate the need for a server, preamp and allow yourself to focus on an amplifier or speakers, if needed.
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Getting a demo of the CH Precision C1 DAC in a week at home. I will compare it to my Audio Note DAC 5 Special V2. Massively different designs so should be interesting.
I also have the AMR DP-777 DAC / Pre-amp which has an R-2R chip and for the money it is bang on, very smooth and non digital.
I have to admit I am an Audio Note fanboy but willing to be diverted if another DAC sounds right to me. |
Ketch, thanks so much. I'm not surprised at all. The OSDE/SE is such an exceptional DAC to begin with. Steven shared some of the upgrades he did and who time consuming they are. It's a labor of love, that's for sure. For those who want to get finally jump on board, getting an upgraded OSDX used is awesome as you can save a few dollars and enjoy a GREAT sounding DAC. Very cool. |
I have been pretty happy with Metrum's Pavane, which bests all the DACs and disc players I have owned or auditioned in my system. I am interested in Metrum's new Adagio DAC, which reportedly goes beyond being simply a Pavane with volume control.
The volume control on the Adagio is implemented by changing the reference voltage of the dacs, which seems similar to the technology used by Empirical Audio for their volume control. Metrum has modified the DAC boards and increased the maximum reference voltage by 3 times resulting in a reported noise floor of -155
dB and improved linearity. The Adagio uses
30VA transformers for each channel (double the Pavane)
and 16 ladder dacs
instead of the 8 used in the Pavane.
I look forward to hearing whether the DAC with volume direct approach will sound better than sending the signal through
the AN tantalum resistors in the volume control of my zero gain, buffered preamp. It would also be fun to try the Adagio with and without the Final Drive.
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I look forward to hearing whether the DAC with volume direct approach will sound better than sending the signal through the AN tantalum resistors in the volume control of my zero gain, buffered preamp. It would also be fun to try the Adagio with and without the Final Drive. Is the no gain pre-amp a passive or have valves as a buffer? I use a passive (pot and source switch only). It works really week, but the thing to watch is the DAC has; 1 Enough gain 2 The output impedance is low (less than 500 ohms) If it is higher along with capacitance in your interconnects you may get loss of dynamics and bass roll off. 3 You can sit the DAC and Passive Pre very close to the Power Amplifier I used to have a very good quality tubed pre-amplifier, but without it is faster, more dynamic, more focussed. |
Yes, varying the reference current in the DAC chip is a wonderful and musical way to implement volume control in a DAC, if not a particularly new one. The Rowland Aeris implemented this very design as early as 2010... And Aeris has cured me from DACophilia nervosa... At least for the time being *Grins!*
G. |
Guido, are you running your Aeris directly to your amps or are you using a preamp in-between? If you tried it both ways, would you share any comments about the relative strengths and weaknesses of each approach? Sunseekerespana, to your questions:
Is the no gain pre-amp a passive or have valves as a buffer? The preamp is buffered using solid state devices, very similar to this; http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/smcaudio/vre1.htmlI use a passive (pot and source switch only). It works really week, but the thing to watch is the DAC has;
1 Enough gain My current DAC, the Pavane, has an output voltage of 4V, which is more than enough to fully drive the amplifiers. 2 The output impedance is low (less than 500 ohms) If it is higher along with capacitance in your interconnects you may get loss of dynamics and bass roll off. The buffering reduces output impedance and eliminates loss of bass or dynamics. 3 You can sit the DAC and Passive Pre very close to the Power Amplifier This is always good practice when possible and particularly with passives. My ICs from preamp to amplifiers are I to 1.5M. When I compare my buffered preamp with a passive preamp I own (Goldpoint) I never use longer than 1M ICs. I also have Endler attenuators, which connect directly to the amplifiers and actually sound pretty good. I am curious about the variable voltage volume control in DACs like the Overdrive SE/SX, Aeris and now Metrum's Adagio, and whether those have any negative effects (relative to usking a preamp) on things like bass impact, dynamics, staging or other desirable sonic traits. I was worried about these issues when I went to a zero-gain buffered preamp but it seems to be the best of both worlds with excellent bass and dynamics plus the clarity/purity passives are known for. |
Sorry for the infrequent posts. Been crazy and waiting for my ODSX to come to compare the Emm and Empical for a final shootout....
Mitch2 - I have run every single DAC I have tried in this thread direct and never once preferred it. My Burmester preamp is very very good and has always maintained sonic integrity, detail and accuracy while adding a sense of dynamic scale, dimensional depth and realism that vanishes when I run direct. But that's my system.
Guido has been running his Aeris to his amps direct for quite some time. But that DAC was designed specifically for Rowland Amps to do just that. So everything was fine tuned from output and input gains/impedance/etx to make it work. I think it's an exceptionally unique scenario. |
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Hi Mitch2, currently I am running Aeris directly into the Rowland M925 monoblocks. In olden days, I ran the Rowland Criterion linestage between DAC and amps.
Which arrangement is "better"? The answer is... It depends... Immediately followed by... I might be persuaded to change my mind, because things are achangin'....
First of all, what I observed in the past....
* Aeris by itself yielded a subtle amount of greater resolution compared to having Criterion in the chain.
* With Aeris only, there seems to be deep silence from the speakers when music is not playing, vs a very low level of hash when Criterion was in the chain... To perceive the actual noise caused by Criterion, you had to place your ear 6 inches or less from a tweater.
* However, with Criterion in the chain, you would experience a subtly warmer presentation that admittedly is quite intoxicating.
Having gone back and forth for several months with the two configurations, I felt I prefered the presentation without Criterion.
Having said the above, Rowland has now started to ship the ultra-capacitor based Power Storage Unit (PSU)... Essentially this is an additional full chassis component that can be applied to replace both the external power supply of the Corus linestage (audio circuit identical to the now withdrawn Criterion) as well as the power supply of Aeris... Meaning that a single PSU can power Corus and Aeris simultaneously. Essentially PSU serves pure clean DC 24/7 for compatible line components and takes them completely off the AC grid. There are two banks of ultra-caps inside PSU... While one charges up from the AC line, the other one is offline from the grid, and serves DC to the devices downstream. When the bank of ultra-caps serving devices becomes depleted, the role is switched seamlessly, and the process is repeated... The answer is no, the flipping event is not audibly perceivable.
I have not heard PSU yet, but according to all reports I have heard this far the result of PSU on Corus and Aeris might be quite impressive in terms of subtlety, quiet delivery, image and stage, and resolution... I guess the main benefit is being completely off-grid, while not having the problem of reduced dynamic agility caused by the slower transient handling of batteries.
So, now I am thinking that a combination of Aeris + Corus + PSU might outperform Aeris alone... Probably even quieter than Aeris, and perhaps with the added grace of having Corus in the audio path.
Saluti, Guido |
Hi Guido, Your comments remind me of what I hear....
Aeris by itself yielded a subtle amount of greater resolution compared to having Criterion in the chain reminds me of removing my preamp and using one of my passives, either a Goldpoint passive preamp or Endler attenuators direct to amp, and with Criterion in the chain, you would experience a subtly warmer presentation that admittedly is quite intoxicating which is similar to what I hear through my preamp, which is a no gain, buffered unit with external choke power supply and Shallco discrete resistor volume control constructed using Audio Note tantalum resistors. The main difference from your situation is my preamp doesn't add noise. It seems most here end up preferring a preamp in their systems, including those who have used a volume control implemented by changing the reference voltage of the dacs, such as with the ODSE. One reviewer, Steven Plaskin at AudioStream, slightly preferred having the Ayre KX-R preamp in his system to running the ODSE direct to his Ayre MX-R amps, even with the Final Drive buffers in-line. Not using the volume
direct to amps approach would make a jump to the Adagio less attractive, even though it is said to sound better than the Pavane because of the significantly increased reference voltage and doubling of the number of dacs. I really need to find one to audition to find out for sure how much better it sounds and whether I could live with it direct to my amps. For now, I will be happy to replace the mac mini I have been listening to for the past couple of weeks with my fully upgraded Antipodes DX, which arrives on Friday, with Roon and the option to use the newly added S/PDIF output instead of USB. Kudos to Antipodes for supporting existing customers with upgrades and for staying at the forefront of server technology. |
I have run a few DAC's in my system and have owned the OSDE/SE. I use a turntable still, so I need a preamp, but I, like most, wanted to hear the differences. I have never chosen driving directly. I lose a bit of dynamics and the sound staging can lose a bit of coherency.
I use an Ayre AX-5/Twenty and the pre on that thing is nearly as good as the KX-R/Twenty. I like the preamp in my system still. If someone is chasing between a preamp or running directly, I think that the consensus is a pre will sound better, but if you take that extra 10k for a pre (just throwing out a number) and throw that at a better DAC like the OSDX and Final Drives, you will never even know the difference and you will have a much better sounding system than using say the ODSE/SE with that great pre.
That way you can get a preamp later one and upgrade the sound even more.
So many ways to go and so many great DAC's on the market right now. We all hear differently and this thread really shows that. Thanks for everyone's input. It's been a wonderful guide for many of us and is appreciated. |
Schiit Yggy. Unbelievable sound and value. Use with Sonore microrendu for streaming. Nothing will beat this at any price. |
lxgreen, I'm sure the Yggy is a nice DAC, but you really need to go out and listen to the DAC's being discussed in this thread before making the statement that nothing will beat the Schitt at any price. Sorry, but there are many in this thread alone that clobber the Schitt DAC. Honestly, I have heard it in the same system at the same time as the Ayre Codex for 1800 and the Codex was the winner to every one of us in the store and that included the owner who bought the Codex. I can promise you that the Empirical Audio DAC's are in a different league. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you need to go listen to other DAC's in order to make that statement I think. It's all good. Glad that you love your DAC and steamer though. That's awesome. |
+1 on ctsooner's post. While many Yggdrasil owners want to believe that it's the best DAC in existence, in the real world it provides a good value but is not in the same league with some of the other uber-DACs being discussed on this thread. As long as owners are happy with it that's great, but proclaiming that no DAC at any price can beat it seems a bit optimistic. |
Hi Guido- I currently use a Levinson 512 for SACD, but also have a Rowland Aeris Dac, and it's fantastic, however, even more (very slightly) pure and natural sounding to my ears is my newest addition- the Reimyo DAP-999EX Limited dac, and I have done several close comparisons between the two. Girlfriend has great ears, and she also preferred the Reimyo in a double-blind test. It's close, but the edge on purity goes to the Reimyo.
However it's not that easy though- the more I listen to the Aeris, I realize that perhaps it has a more 'complete' control of all frequencies equally with even tighter bass and a simply wonderful complete 'overall' cohesive sound. So perhaps I give the nod to Aeris as the overall winner, but for certain types of music, the Reimyo is unequivocally superior to my ears, and completely addictive- there is a dare I say a slightly more analog purity to it even over the Aeris (again, on certain types of music), with a complete stripping away of any electronic artefacts. **Caveat- source comparison is only redbook cd, on a highly modified 47 Labs Flatfish transport, with Oceallia OCC spdif (BNC) digital cable.
That being said, I have not yet delved into computer audio, so the Aeris with good 24/192 files and a decent music server I am sure will be great, and perhaps the better overall choice, however for spining redbook cd's as source, the nod goes to the Reimyo. The build quality and solidity of the Aeris dac is fantastic, and Rowland gear is Rolex-type audio jewellery (loved my old Concentra). This is why the (somewhat 'lighter-weight') Reimyo DAP-999EX Limited dac took me completely by surprise. Both of these dacs are superb, and don't have me longing (quite yet) for the 'panacea' that DSD may provide? Redbook well implemented can still be completely satisfying- kudos to Jeff Rowland and Reimyo for designing two such superb components... |
CH Precision demo was a disappointment. I fed it via Mac Mini optimised with 12V DC supply and SSD inc Audirvana. The C1 sounded too bright and edgy in the treble region for my tastes. Some smooth tracks sounded very good, but way too many AIFFS were too digital and harsh to enjoy as real music IMO. Maybe it sounds better inc the D1 but that takes it up anther 20K!
Keep looking.... |
Exactly my impression of CH Precision when I heard it at RMAF a couple years ago... Hrd, edgy, with very displeasing treble on any material that had sostenuto in treble parts of any complexity... To my taste it was unlistenable... I asked the importer if the unit was fresh out of the box and not broken in. I was told in no uncertain terms that CH Precision is so good that it does not need any break-in... The gent continued asserting that CH Precision is so good that I needed to "learn" to appreciate its incredible quality.
Really unfortunate that I have the bad habit of trusting my own ears... Took back my test CD, thanked the gent, and walked out to enjoy much better sound most everywhere else at the show.
G. |
heard the whole line of CH gear up in NH and I hated it. I don't love Wilson's to begin with, but they were the worst match up that's for sure.
I am loving the QX5. Have heard it a couple of times now and am waiting on mine. I did hear the optical conversion that we are all talking about in Tampa last week. It was only on the Codex using Audeze LCD 2's and the EL8's (not my favorite can, lol) and also my Noble Savant's (the most neutral IEM/can I've heard to date, but not a bass head IEM, lol) and the sound was outstanding. I was so impressed with this connection. It used a hand made LPS (not as good as Empirical's I'm sure) on the end switch and I was blown away at how quiet it was. It just sounded right.
I think that like anything else, ti's all about sending the best signal to the DAC or preamp. Matt started this thread with concern only about redbook. Of course we are all over the place, but it's still about finding out the top DAC (for Matt) for redbook. I feel strongly that the Ayre QX-5 needs to be put into the mix with Steven's new OSDX (based on the thoughts on one of you feeling it's the best DAC you've had in your system and you've had some of the best as well as most expensive). I think based on your hearing, there are probably only a select few that are the 'best sounding DAC for Redbook'.
My take away from this thread is:
1. Best Redbook DAC
2. Best server/streamer solution going into 'this' DAC
3. Best connection for the server/streamer
4. Best software for YOUR DAC/Server solution as all are different
What have I missed other than cabling and power cords and wood blocks as feet vs anything else as feet, lol. |
Guys, I have to believe that the new Lampi Atlantic is in the mix. PCM is handled R2R while DSD, as I understand it, utilizes the proprietary passive method used in GG (no FPGA or off the shelf chip).
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I just demoed the Merging Technologies Nadac in my system for a few days. It's an Ethernet based DAC and sounds amazing. Very smooth and detailed with outstanding dynamics, great bottom end and absolutely no typical etched digital sound. Very analog like.
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JH901,
See recent posts in the Lampi Atlantic thread here in the Audiogon Digital forum for more feedback.
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Looks like digital is really coming of age. So many great products out or coming-out. The irony is that some companies are offering outstanding products, but are working on ref gear that isn't even out yet. It's almost the opposite of releasing your ref gear first and doing the trickle down effect. Seems like companies are working out the bugs etc.. on moderately priced gear and then upping the ante. We all win either way. |
I listened to the Arye codex on my system.
Besides the codex being so hot you cannot touch it, the yggy was far superior.
I also did not need a DAC that also wears multiple hats.
The yggy is warm if left inside a cabinet by the codex is dangerously hot. I was able to bring it home from the dealer for an in house demo.
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