Yes…. that is my understanding. |
I would assume GTT will only rave about a product he will be distributing. But he will have it for me to hear at his place and he will be showing them at RMAF. Our ears will tell..... |
|
Scheduled delivery for 9/16 between 11 and 3.
Im praying I have a decent amount of free time tomorrow to give the Ultimates some real listening time. And the M1 dac as well. I'll keep you posted. |
Wow, that's a slow boat.... |
They are in the state. They called today to schedule.
I took the earliest delivery date they had available. |
ODSE vs. Bricasti M1 - wow a post that actually resembles the thread title!
I'm going to hold opinions about the new Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate speakers for now, other then to say they are truly statement level and are utterly unforgiving to anything upstream that can't deliver the goods.. "Just the facts." Nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and to say that they are forcing me to re-evaluate and manipulate my room treatments; and I have completely and utterly eliminated the balcony affect with careful placement but I have not yet optimized them.
I spent several hours with the Bricasti M1 running with the Total DAC usb filter/cable and then put the ODSE back in and kept the Total DAC USB in to keep things even. And then I compared the Total DAC filter/cable to my current Wireworld Platinum Starligh USB with Empirical Audio Block Filter on my familiar ODSE to see if I could hear any differences.
The Bricasti M1 is a wonderful DAC with many adjustments and settings to fine tune the sound to your liking, reminiscent of the multitude of setting on my Esoteric CD/DAC. I settled in on one setting, that was what the dealer had suggested as well, after trying all the settings out. I don't remember the name but I'll check and post it. To me it gave me the best of all worlds and allowed the M1 to catwalk and keep me most engaged.
What I found most interesting was how different it sounded with difference source material. Truly a chameleon. It's ability to essentially shape shift from Liszt to Bob Dillon and give what each required, or demanded, was most impressive. This is a DAC that can do it all without struggling. Punch, drive, subtly, refinement, with a slightly forward feel and a wide but not expansive soundstage. Not meticulously accurate or HiFi, just correct. I found the tone and texture proper but missed that last element of complexity and true layer that my ODSE and the Rowland Aeris excel at. The M1 was wonderful at extracting the pace and rhythm of the track and bringing you along for the ride while rarely if ever thinking about what it was doing right or wrong. I found it lacking, subtly, at the extremes.
M1 out, ODSE back in. Snap!
There was my layering, my complexity, my ability to hear deeper into the music and the venue. The soundstage opened up significantly, imaging clarified with a finer sense of place and space and everything spread apart front to back with feet between front and backstage. Extremes were, well, extreme. The most significant difference was speed. The ODSE is lightning fast.
I know I've become a broken record, but this little ODSE is a massive achievement and remains in my rack as another DAC has come and gone.
I am hoping to borrow the Aesthetix Romulus Signature to hear it and I may be able to get my hands on the new top tier Meitner Emm Labs DAC as well. I'll let you know if I can. I'm also dying to hear an MSB DAC in my system.
The Total DAC USB/filter cable vs my Starlight Platinum with Short Block.....
Really subtle differences. Both are excellent. I would say the Total DAC is a hair softer and warmer while the Starlight/Short Block a bit less so. Not huge; not even big. Not enough to justify a purchase. I have 3 different speaker wire in my room currently, and all 3 offered way more significant changes in voicing and performance then did the usb cable swap.
Hope that was worth waiting for. Sorry to those M1 lovers. It's an amazing DAC. But to my ears, in my system the ODSE was more to my taste.
I will post about the speakers in another few days. They need more fine tuning, room adjustment and cable swaps. And the Isis will arrive next Wednesday, so there's still that..... :) |
Hi Matt, what are you referring to, when you say Issis?, I'm assuming you are talking about the Avalon Issis speakers, which btw, would be over the top my friend, it would be game over from a speaker perspective, you think? |
Trenner & Friedl : Isis.
I heard the Avalon Isis in a private home of a dealer who has them set up very well, and they are too big for my room and not to my taste.
The Consequence Ultimate are pushing many of my buttons. They have a bit of a shout to them, which they did not have at all either time I heard them in the store. So I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. I'm adjusting treatments and moving the speakers about to adjust them.
The Isis will be here Wednesday. I'll keep everyone posted. |
09-13-15: Mattnshilp
The Consequence Ultimate are pushing many of my buttons. They have a bit of a shout to them, which they did not have at all either time I heard them in the store. So I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. I'm adjusting treatments and moving the speakers about to adjust them.
The Isis will be here Wednesday. I'll keep everyone posted. That sounds like trouble. Isis to the rescue.... |
Matt, how many hours of break-in do the Consequence Ultimate have on them? Shoutiness could be a temporary artifact of incomplete breakin, as much as it might be caused by non optimal placement. In the former case, patience should do the trick. If the latter, a call to your dealer might be in order for suggestions, recommendations, or an at home consultation session. G. |
Matt,that isis speaker has decent specs,however, why would you buy foreign speakers, the jbl dd-67000 everest speakers are horn loaded like the ones your looking at,give them an audition. |
09-13-15: Audiolabyrinth
Matt,that isis speaker has decent specs,however, why would you buy foreign speakers, the jbl dd-67000 everest speakers are horn loaded like the ones your looking at,give them an audition. He should buy whatever sounds like music. Specs be damned. Some speakers I have heard measure ruler flat but sound like death.... |
It is said that many listeners think they want a system with flat frequency response, until they hear one! My experience agrees with Agear's. |
Agear,
I agree 100% with your statement. You have to listen as Matt is effectively demonstrating with his speaker auditions. |
Guido - excellent point. I can't imagine these speakers have many hours on them at all. They are essentially brand new. Thank you for reminding me of my core processes. I will immediately start burning them in, I'll bet that's it.
Audiolabyrinth - The T&F are made in Austria, Dynaudio are Danish and Marten are Swedish. Those are my 3 front runners right now. The JBL DD-67000 are dual 15" drivers and are 38" wide; way too big for my small room. I have heard them and they are great, but not a match for my needs.
Bill_K - I measured the Lawrence Audio Double Bass while I had them on loan and they measured practically flat as a line in my room. They were technically exceptional, and completely uninvolving. I was fascinated by the many peaks and valleys of the Coltrane Tenor and the magic they created. My new Consequence Ultimates measure even worse then the Tenors did, but the proof and truth is in the ear of the beholder, not the measurements.... I know John Atkinson disagrees...
If all goes well, I will shortly be comparing the Emm Labs DAC 2X with the Aesthetix Romulus Sig, and my ODSE. Keep your fingers crossed. |
Matt, are you planning to audition Lampizator Golden Gate? I am asking as I plan to upgrade my Lampi L4 and GG is one of my top choices. Other candidates are Bricasti, TotalDac and Rockna. Sadly, MSB Analog is no longer on the list. I have been listening to MSB Analog + Powe Base for the last 3 weeks and comparing it to my Lampi L4. No contest, Lampi is better on all fronts, especially with DSD. It's a pity, I've had really high hopes for MSB. Other MSB models may be better, but they are out of my price range.
I would love to try ODSE, but not sure if I can get one in Moscow, where I am based. Any other recommendations?
Thanks |
Matt - I know there's quite a list of speakers you've tried and I may have missed your mention of them, but have you considered any Sonus faber speakers? I just heard their Guarneri Evolution monitors and was blown away by them. While there are other speakers that are more impressive upon initial listening, I haven't heard any that are as seductively smooth in the mids along with such sweet highs. Of course depending upon your musical preferences they may or may not hit your sweet spot, but they do it for me and thought you might want to audition them. Their larger models like the Amati Futura and above are more full range designs. I also heard their lower priced Olympica line, and while they're very polite and easy to listen to I found them lacking the 'magic' that their upper models have in spades. Good listening! |
Hi Bill. I am very familiar with Faber. The Strads are sensational and the Amati Futura is as well. Their new Lilium is stunning. The Strads and Futura are both rear ported and won't work in my room. And i spoke at length with the guys at Faber about the Lilium and the consensus was that with the top firing woofer and unique poring system it would be a hit or miss in my size room. No one was willing to put them in my room to try, so I moved on....
Abedirov - I would be happy to try it but I'm not willing to buy one to do so. The guys at Lampy have offered me a Baby 7 to try, and I look forward to that. I'll post if that happens. |
Matt, it is strange that Lampi people are not willing to give you GG to try given the vast popularity of your thread. I look forward to your impressions of the Lite 7, but I do not think it can compete with the other great DACs you've tried. |
09-13-15: Bill_k
It is said that many listeners think they want a system with flat frequency response, until they hear one! My experience agrees with Agear's. Yessir. I have fiddled with room correction software in the past to create a ruler flat response, and the result is the same. |
09-14-15: Abedirov
Matt, are you planning to audition Lampizator Golden Gate? I am asking as I plan to upgrade my Lampi L4 and GG is one of my top choices. I have a Lampizator GG and love it. |
09-14-15: Abedirov
Matt, it is strange that Lampi people are not willing to give you GG to try given the vast popularity of your thread. I look forward to your impressions of the Lite 7, but I do not think it can compete with the other great DACs you've tried. From what I understand, Lucas is heavily backordered on GGs and 211 amps. Have you heard the L7? |
Matt, the jbl speakers are not about specs, they sound really musical and clear, until you listened long term to a well broken in pair, no one can say anything about them, they really sound good, hey, go listen! |
Matt,
I presume you saw the MSB Diamond DAc 1V Plus with Diamond Power Base and DATA CD 1V Cd transport on AG for 19,999. Its been on for a while; bet you could snare it pretty cheap. |
Agear, I have not heard the L7 yet. The local dealer just sold his only demo version of the B7. He will receive the GG in a month or 2, and I plan to audition it as soon as it arrives. |
AudioLabyrinth, Matt is not disputing your assertion about the JBLs quality/musicality/desirability.... He heard them and likes them fine... The speakers are too large for his room. See the following fragment from his post on the subject:
"The JBL DD-67000 are
dual 15" drivers and are 38" wide; way too big for my small room. I have heard them and they are great, but not a match for my needs."
G. |
Hi All,
I'm getting a little disillusioned here, thought I was reading the wrong thread.
Was it not about the best dac for redbook?
Sorry guys for pouring cold water
Raymond |
Abedirov, have you seen the latest Lite& reviews?
http://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-lite-7-dsd-dac#5QSAiHOiLrQYrGwi.97
(Favourite greatest bits)
and
http://www.inearspace.com/#!LampizatOr-Lite-7-The-BIG-DAC/c112t/55f190580cf20cc524a5442d |
09-16-15: Cusco69
Hi All,
I'm getting a little disillusioned here, thought I was reading the wrong thread.
Was it not about the best dac for redbook?
Sorry guys for pouring cold water
Raymond Raymond, when Matt goes off his meds, his mentation tends to wander.... |
Hi Ray. You pour your cold water and add ice. But throw in a few strawberries, some rum and use a blender; tastes better that way. :)
My digressions know no boundaries. I have taken this fun thread on a wild ride thrugh Uber Speaker Land and I think we have all come out better for it. Or at least refreshed and ready to attack the DAC with renewed fervor.
With that said, I apologize to Ray to report to those interested that the Isis arrived today. I now need to get them downstairs and hook them up and listen. They are well broken in from what I understand and should sound Bizang within a day or so of hook up. I'm really looking forward to this! I'm a little nervous since I own the Consequences and am worried that I might like the Isis better and will need to move the Consequence. But the Consequence has proven a serious state of the art contender and is tough competition for any newcomer. We shall see. I'm burning the Consequences in now and plan on getting 500-1000 hours on them as quick as I can. Running them 24/7.
I am happy to report to Ray and the other DAC loving followers that I have confirmed an Emm Labs DAC2X inbound next Friday as well as the Allnic DHT DAC around the same time (along with an Antipodes DX) and I think I have secured an audition the an MSB DAC V and a Lampy Baby 7.
So lots coming up to report.
I'm also auditioning an Ethernet/USB audiophile grade distribution hub that looks very interesting. I don't know if I can report who makes it yet as the manufacturer US rep is sending it to me to evaluate for them. But I'll check and report as things happen. |
Matt,
What really interests me is how your high powered amplifiers interact with these speakers. Both companies have excellent reputations. Trenner Friedl and Dynaudio have very different design approaches/philosophy and construction/Xovers/drivers etc. One will be a better synergistic fit with "your" amplifier, even though both speakers individually are considered to be terrific. I'm looking forward to your in house audition. Thanks for sharing these experiences.
Charles, |
Thankyou Guidocorona, I over looked what Matt had said, however in Japan, they have been using the jbl's in small room's with success,they also have adjustments on the speaker's for room corrections, not sure if he knew that, cheers. |
+1 about sharing your experiences Matt, thankyou, cheers to Matt. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth, I am delighted that the big JBLs have found themselves cozy homes in space-challenged Japanese abodes.
Regretably, it appears however that in spite of your better judgmet, Matt feels no compunction deviating from Nipponic space utilization standards. His abode and preferences being unapologetically his own only, he appears to have declined to plunge the darling BBMs (Big Behamoth Speakers) down the stairs to his moderately sized musical cave.
To change his mind will require a formal petition.... 100K signatures minimum... Your direct bank deposit to his account to cover all costs.... And a further compensation in kind or cash arbitrated by a federal judge to cover any incidentals: medical, legal, and psychological counseling, and... underground escavations to build Structural extensions of his basement into the extant hillside to optimize the listening space for the oversized creatures.
G.
Regards, G.
|
Actually, I'd settle for a pint of Guinness.....
:) |
The Everest speakers are huge. Yeow.
Matt, Isis set up? |
Matt, try to get MSB with the new Quad DSD USB input module. I have read the new module is better with all music, not just DSD. |
1 speaker is downstairs, the other is still in the garage. My 14 year old helped me get one down but he had to leave for a school function. I'm hoping he can help me get the other down tonight. I should have everything set up by Saturday. Fingers crossed. |
JBL DD6700 specification.
Description Dual 15″ (380mm), three-way, floorstanding speaker designed for a superlative listening experience
Frequency Response 29Hz – 60kHz (half space); 45Hz – 60kHz (anechoic)
Recommended Amplifier Power 500 watts
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m) 96dB
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms; 5.0 ohms @ 80Hz; 3.0 ohms @ 40kHz
Crossover Frequencies (Hz) 150Hz (LF1 6dB/octave) 850Hz (LF2 24dB/octave) 20kHz (UHF 24dB/octave)
Ultrahigh-frequency Drive Components 1″ (25mm) pure-beryllium compression driver
High-frequency Drive Components 4″ (100mm) pure-beryllium compression driver
Low-frequency Drive Components Dual 15″ (380mm) three-layer, pure-pulp sandwich/foam core cone woofer
Height 43.7” (110.9 cm)
Width 38” (96.5 cm)
Depth 18.5” (47 cm)
Weight Weight: 313 lb (142.1 kg) / Shipping Weight: 383 lb (173.9 kg)
Finishes Rosewood or Maple
The lowest bottom frequency is 45Hz (anechoic). It is like bookshelf bottom end! |
Hmmm, bass response seems to be a little suboptimal for the large drivers on these JBLs. G. |
Abe- the MSB has the Quad DAC.
The JBL synthesis stuff has never focused on going super low. Even their theater speakers only go down to the mid 50's. It's a design philosophy, although if you hear their higher end speakers they don't sound like their limited. They are very natural sounding.... |
Who cares about JBL....
Isis set up? |
Matt, it might depend on what you are playing on the speakers.... Electric bass as an example, is likely to be perfectly OK, it naturally blooms into the third harmonic while attenuating the fundamental, because of the relative shortness of the strings, and the natural inclination of the amplifiers used in the live venues.
But try to give such speakers some organ music extending downwaards into the 16,32, or 64 foot pipe ranks, or other bassus prufundus, like some orchestral string bass, large percussion, etc... and you are likely to get a somewhat unpitched bloom at the bottom instead of fundamental frequencies.
Probably euphonically pleasing to some.... Would drive me batty.
As you know, I am not even faintly in the market for new speakers. But spoiled as I am by the finely setup VA Die Muzik in my loft, I could not live with a bass compromise, as "natural" as it might seem prima face.
Rather, on purely hypothetical new speakers, I would seek even deeper bass, perhaps going down to the higher teens, still consistent with the pitch integrity and harmonic articulation that DIe Muzik are capable of delivering down to the lower twenties region.
G |
Guido, that is what I have been in search of. I want a speaker with the tonal accuracy and proper coherence of the Die Muzik with more low end extension, bottom or front ported and in a petite package. Is that asking too much??? The Tenor seams to be the closest thing to that this far in a small package. I'm still having issues with shout with the Consequences, which is driving me batty because they had none at the store demo. It's bordering on fatiguing, which is making me want to cry. I can't figure it out.... But I shall not give up.
Isis is still one up, one down. My son has been busy with school work and today be was out at a marching band performance/football game. I'm picking him up at 10:30. I can't, in good conscience, ask the poor kid to sharp a 200 pound crate into the basement with me after a 16 hour day.....
I'm hoping tomorrow and then I can set them up. |
I'm ready to start drinking. I have read over every review of the Consequence Ultimate and talked with many people who know the Consequence Ultimate well and nowhere, in review or discussion, does anyone report or hear what I am complaining of. Nor did I hear it at the store. Other then the bit of a shout (and it's not harsh or truly fatiguing-it's just bothering me considering how much $$$$$ I have into them), I love the speaker. They vanish even though they are a large cabinet and the throw a wonderfully wide and deep soundstage. They are tonally accurate and multi layered with wonderfully accurate leading and trailing edges.
I'm not giving up. But I will pull them for a bit to give the Isis a good listen.
I had a local dealer drop off an Allnic D5000 DHT DAC and Antipodes DX server. Cool!!! I'll report mid next week on this as well. |
Hi Matt, if in about one more month of grinding out signals the Consequences do not tame the shoutiness, you might need to get a professional to do a methodic setup... And if the shoutiness persists after that, you might need to look for tamer creatures... Or add a pair of Rel active subs to the good old Muziks to let your system reach down one more half clean octave.
G. |
Hey Matt,
I think the shortcoming is truly, the Mac Mini setup. I bet the Podes fixes your problem. |
Remember Guido - the reason I looked past Die Muzik is the rear port issue which activates mucho nodes in the room. Adding more base would have been a disaster....
I agree that if the shout doesn't settle with burn in then a Master Set may be in order. Unless the Isis blow me away; they will be moved down today and set up by tomorrow at the latest.
As I said, I have heard the Ultimates myself in other locations and I just loved them. I think the shout is somehow due to my room, I just can't figure out how to correct it. It's a labour of love....
I do have a LOT of DAC's coming my way. The Allnic D5000 and an Antipodes DX arrived yesterday. So I have a LOT of work to do. |
Paul - I don't disagree that the mini is a weak link, but it has never caused a shout before. and I have had a LOT of speakers grace my room.
Why now with the Consequence Ultimates?
-Is it that it has a lower sensitivity (84db) and demands more power to drive it and thus highlights my systems inadequacies?
-Are the CU's just not burned in yet as Guido suggests?
-Are the CU so accurate that they are revealing something upstream that was previously not discernible?
-Do the CU have such low distortion that I'm just playing them way louder then anything else in my room thus far and I'm overdriving my room?
-Are the quasi-horn loaded/ring radiated drivers just not plying nicely in my smallish room? Am I sitting to close to them?
I know not the answers to these questions. I feel that the CU is teetering on the edge of nirvana and I just need to know what to adjust to get it there....
But your suggestion is spot on. I was initially going to compare the ODSE and D5000 using my familiar Mac Mini source but I'll try the DX first in a brief head to head to see if the shout is still there. Could it be that easy??? I hope so!!! |
