I have 17 Quad dsd files so far. done right (native) they are remarkable through the SE Lampy GG in my system. the native PCM through the Trinity is also remarkable.
original analog remastered through Quad dsd will be a crap shoot.....with variable levels of re-mastering. my next Quad dsd downloads will be analog recordings and we will see how those go.
give me the native format 100% of the time, whatever that was/is. that is how I want to hear my music. |
Mattnshilp, I think much depends on the companies with master tapes. I have heard that SONY with the bulk of master tapes and very concerned with them deteriorating, is going to transfer them to quad DSD. If they do so an make down loads possible. The questioning is over.
Having heard a quad DSD violin recording at the RMAF, I can say most ardently that I would get as many of the SONY tapes as possible. I have also heard several DSDs made from SACDs and played as double DSD. Here too I will seek as many of these as possible. |
Copied from another site:
DXD is not DSD (direct stream digital, one bit recording). DXD is a PCM format that is a very high sampling rate of 352.8kHz / 24bit. Merging Technologies and Pyramix incorporated the DXD format into their recording systems to provide PCM like tools at a much higher standard than was available at that time. DXD at 352.8 is approximately 4x larger file size than DSD2.8 though, among avid DSD recording engineers, some may hear a more PCM like quality to DXD that is not to their liking.
The Sonoma system for recording to DSD has limited editing capabilities but can stay in the DSD format without going to PCM/DXD. The limitation for the Sonoma system is that is currently only records in DSD 2.8 (also called DSD64)
Some labels, like 2L, have chosen to record in the DXD format and release in DSD. This allow for more editing that is common to PCM. DSD as a "container" for DXD is a very suitable solution for delivering files to end users/music lovers. Some labels, like Channel Classics, choose to record in DSD and on occasion will convert to DXD for minor editing purposes. Some labels, like Blue Coast, record using the Sonoma system and limit their editing to stay in the DSD format.
What the future holds is up to the consumer. Eventually, the acceptance of DSD will provide recording equipment capable of DSD tools equivalent to that in the PCM world. As a container, DSD has proven itself to be efficient for delivering files at about 25% of the file size of industry equivalent PCM formats. As broadband continues to have bigger 'pipes', DSD could be the optimum choice for streaming and downloading our music in the future.
The best test is to listen and decide for yourself about DSD vs DXD or PCM. |
Wisnon, yes I know that but the computer has to unpackage the DOD that increase latency and as you say it also has a low limit.
Having heard a quad DSD recording at the RMAF, my quest is on. |
TBG, DoP is DSD and latency can be adjusted by A+, for example.
DoP is DSD in a PCM shell, as you most likely know.
Direct DSD is not necessarily NATIVE. It may indeed be converted to PCM for playback in the Dac.
DoP may be limited to DSD128 only though...
Melba, DXD is high rate PCM not DSD... |
Speaking of DSD, I just picked up an FIM DXD cd which was recorded AND mastered in 24-bit 352.8 kHz resolution onto a 99.9999% silver disc. I accept that my Vitus SCD-025Mk2 cdp will still be playing that in RB standard, but it should be a great recording which I think it is more important than the format imho. |
Bill_k, DOP needs computer time to convert back to DSD, that latency means more processing time. It is much better to keep DSD in DSD. It is true that it is all just math but DOP require more computation and choosing what to do with in-between numbers. |
Paul, you are always OK with me man. I was away for 4 days and so couldn't respond.
Keep your suggestions coming. Sorry if I made it seem like they are not welcome...they are! |
As it stands I believe I am the first in the world to have this system and I am utterly disgusted at al of you for not thinking of it sooner. It is the proverbial "No Brainer". Matt, I enjoyed your 'poke' at all of us audio nerds who take ourselves too seriously. yes.....we can get carried away and self absorbed. but if it makes each day a little richer and makes the music reproduction better then what the heck. anyway thank you for entertaining us and I can't believe you have not had more comments.....are we really that caught up in our own stuff? I have to admit that I'm typically as bad as anyone. time to lighten up..... cheers! |
Thanks Bill you kind of echo my thoughts.
From my listening experience if originally recorded in PCM 16/44.1 then the best way to listen is via proper implemented R2R ladder Multibit dac 16/44.1 conversion.
If that same 16/44.1 is played back using Delta Sigma, it worse tha the Multibit
Again if that same recording is re-done into DSD (HiRez) and played back via Delta Sigma type dac to me it is still worse.
The only time DSD "may" to me sound better, is when it's recorded from the beginning using DSD, not that I have ever heard it yet.
And I would like to hear normal mainstream artist, not special one offs of obscure artist/bands just to show off the DSD format.
Cheers George
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George - While I appreciate the sound quality of DSD, I believe that digital recordings are best represented in whatever format they were originally mastered in. So to my ears music that was originally mastered in DSD sounds best when converted to analog directly, and likewise PCM mastered material sounds best when converted from PCM. A lot depends upon the specific DAC being used though, as some excel in either DSD or PCM and may sound better in their best format even with converted files. Nothing in audio is absolute, there are many differing opinions on this topic. I'm not certain about your last question, but I don't think that DoP support necessarily indicates that a Delta Sigma chip is being used. I'm sure someone here will speak up to correct me if I'm wrong about that. |
So correct me if I'm wrong this DOP protocol on this Thrax dac must switch in a Delta Sigma chip somewhere along the way?
Cheers George
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Thanks Bill as you can tell I'm still a Redbook stalwart, and never delved into DSD as I've never heard it yet, convince me that it's better than a well implemented R2R Ladder Dac playing RedBook.
So it's a bit like when they release earilier/older album that was only ever originally recorded in PCM 44.1
And they bring it out again and say "new high rez" just released of the same thing.
You know it was done only in PCM 44.1 and know it was never re-recorded in hi-rez or dsd, so it's not better just done so it can be resold again to the gullible in dsd format.
Cheers George
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DoP stands for 'DSD over PCM', which transmits DSD data via PCM frames. The original DSD data stream is then reconstructed from the data in these PCM frames, and the DSD data is converted into analog. |
TBG
It said this: (It can also handle the DSD signal (via the DoP protocol). Whatever that is?
Cheers George
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The Ultimate Tweak:
I want everyone to know that I have spent the past 13.897 weeks secretly researching and implementing what I consider to be the worlds ultimate audiophile tweak. I am, quite frankly, shocked that no one else has thought of this before me. After delving into room treatments, cabling, vibration and electromagnetic isolation, psychoacoustics, phase and time shifts, and simple speaker and seating placement it became clear to me that we have all missed the proverbial boat completely. As the waves of music emanate from the speakers they instantly hit the greatest limitation we all suffer from. Air my friends. That ghastly combination of mostly Oxygen with some Nitrogen, Helium, and a few other trace elements compressed at a measly 1 ATM (atmosphere of pressure - 760 torr). Our beloved waves of acoustic energy affected by such a plebian design as air; it makes me wretch and heave just thinking about the unacceptability of the situation.
Once the thought came upon me I was unable to sleep, eat, drink, work, respire, perspire, perfuse or waste a single molecule of ATP on anything other then my new goal. I immediately set at work sealing off my room of any possible entrance point for that horrible air. Such a poor transmitter of acoustic waves that they travel but a few meters before dissipating to the four winds (literally). Once my room was devoid of all things air'ish I began phase 2 of my plan.... what would work better then air? My first juvenile attempts were to simply try air collected from outside of some of the more prominent Audiophile companies. as is the case with wine and the earth the grapes grow in affecting their quality, if these companies can make music sound good it must be the air around their manufacturing plants that has something special... I began my trek to the corners of the globe (has anyone every realized what a stupid expression that is?? Globes, by definition, have no corners!)and collected air from outside Nordost, Rowland, Burmester, Soutution, Accuphase, JM Labs, YG, and many of the other reveared companies. I pumped my room full of each of these collections to no avail... I will admit that the air outside of the Colorado based Rowland Group has a rather funny smell and made me feel great, but it didn't improve the actual sound quality. My suspicions were realized in full, air in all of its forms was not the solution....
It took months, 78 trips to the hospital, and a small fortune in rare and available gas combinations to come upon the solution... With a combination of compression to between 9 and 14 ATM (around 9,120 torr)of 98% Nitrogen, 1% Argon and a small mixture of Xenon, Vaporized Silver (gives the sound a touch of accuracy), Silica salt ions and the concentrated smell of my Maltese's left ear canal I had done it! The compression needs to be highest in a direct line from the speakers to my ears (what I refer to as the listening tubes) and then mitigate as it expands laterally, giving the sound increasing speed as the pressure reduces, reflects, and then hitting a wave of higher pressure at it re-enters the listening tube as a reflection. The increased viscosity of the listening tubes propagates sound at a much more efficient level then banal air and the wave front created by the change in pressure essentially eliminates all reflections. Utter perfection!!!
The room came at a cost of 19.4 million dollars as the variable compression device is rather complex and is wired completely with Odin 2 speaker wire; 2/3 of a mile of it in total. The gas cost is negligible and my Maltese doesn't seam to mind me extracting the ear canal odor much at all. I have, unfortunately, been hospitalized several times for severe cases of the bends and I subsequently installed a very sophisticated decompression system which allows me to listen to music down to about 4 atm before the sound quality becomes unacceptable.
Compression requires about 2 days to fully stabilize the variable compression system which is perfect as it allows my equipment to warm up nicely during that time. I have taken to knitting, sock puppet animation and cats cradle to pass the time during compression and decompression.
I tried a Synergistic Research Atmosphere to fine tune the system and it seamed to work wonders until I set it to its Easy Listening setting and it had a severe interaction with the Xenon, Argon mixture and blew up half of my block. Boy were the neighbors pissed!
As it stands I believe I am the first in the world to have this system and I am utterly disgusted at al of you for not thinking of it sooner. It is the proverbial "No Brainer".
Please let me know if you would like to implement one of these systems in your home. I will gladly provide a detailed layout of the entire design and a list of all necessary supplies.
You, of course, will have to provide your own Maltese.
If you don't have one of these then you truly can not call yourself an Audiophile!
Oh, please keep in mind that the respiration system required to breath in what I have come to fondly refer to the room as "The really freaking expensive room filled with gas and lots of pressure that makes my nose bleed and ears happy," is made of carbon fiber and requires carbon fiber air tanks and hoses to avoid ringing. I mean, any Audiophile worth his weight in StillPoints knows that its gotta be carbon fiber! If your not going to take this seriously then don't even try.... |
Can you elaborate on its ability to do DSD? Can it do double or quad DSD, which seems to be the way digital is going? |
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Thanks George. I'm a huge fan of Bruno's NCORE module! Can't wait to hear what he can do with a converter.
The MSB line conditioner arrived yesterday. I hooked it in and ran the little ground wire to my amp as described in its manual. I've never used any type of system wide grounding system for my room since I ran the electrical myself and was meticulous with running identical power line lengths for each outlet back to the dedicated breaker panel. I tried the conditioner with the ground isolated and shared with the amp. In my system I didn't really notice a difference, which may be because of what I just described I don't have enough understanding of ground loops and such to give a better answer.
The conditioner itself was on par with my Shunyata Hydra conditioner I currently use. I A/B'd them basically. I never ran the DAC straight to the wall. I'm going to hold onto the conditioner and try it on my ODSE to see if it makes a difference.
Regarding the MSB Diamond DAC:
Fit and finish are Statement level as you would expect. It's the most attractive and well built DAC I've had in my room. I had the black but would have preferred the white/silver. Controls and remote were well laid out and easy to use, as was the back panel. Nothing was in the way of anything and the cable layout flowed elegantly. The settings, as I said, were limited (which i prefer) and I ended up leaving them default. The upsampling softened the overall gestalt and decreased the height of the soundstage. And I could not discern a difference between upsampling #1 and #2. So I left it off, default setting. The filters caused a more dramatic change but not for the better. Default was 32x; which I preferred 95% of the time. The other 2 settings reduced low frequency extension, exaggerated the upper mids and highs and gave the sound a more technical nature. The background became the foreground with the 3rd filter setting; quite strange an effect really. So settings, as such, remained default which is what Vince suggested when I spoke with him at RMAF.
I initially ran it through my Burmester 077 preamp. The DAC has a recognizable warmth. This was decribed to me by the dealer as a result of removal of all noise and jitter, leaving behind just the music. It was not overwhelming and clearly something many will prefer. At first it felt natural and flowed but over time I became more aware of it; sometimes good and sometimes not. Staging, imaging, tone and texture were all dead on as were leading and trailing edges (which I found more easily identifiable with the MSB then any other DAC). The 16x filter removed the warmth almost completely, but the magic of the MSB also faded. It was sweat, engaging and felt right many times. But I didn't feel like I was getting quite the accurate portrayal of what was recorded. That was provided more naturally, to my ears and in my system, by the Emm Labs unit.
I then tried running it direct from DAC to amps. As any of you who have been reading since the beginning (and you know who you are, you crazy pathological dedicated few) know, I have consistently preferred running my DAC thorugh a preamp over direct to the amp. The MSB is quite an accomplishment in engineering regarding fits volume control. With the DAC run direct, the warmth was stepped down a notch or two. It was still there, but for the first time I thought I preferred my DAC run direct. I felt I gained a level of analytical detail and removed a touch of warmth and for that I preferred direct. After more listening felt that I lost a sense of air, complexity and depth that made me eventually put the preamp back in. If I were ever going to run a DAC direct, this would be it. Which is good because at +/- $42k, saving money on a preamp would be a very good thing. If I were going to run a DAC with a lesser preamp I would go direct honestly. But the previous Rowland Criterion and my current Burmy 077 are SO good that I think they just give me what I need to complete the whole scenario. Maybe it's just me...
In the end, I prefered the more natural sense of tone, realism, complexity and depth that the Emm gave me. I was given the opportunity to acquire an early run of the brand new SOTA Emm Labs statement DA-2 just shown at RMAF. I couldn't pass it up and placed a deposit. If it's better then the dac2x, which I can't imagine its not, then I should be quite happy with the results. For now, the MSB goes back with no misgivings and my ODSE is back in. The DA-2 should be here late 2015/early 2016. So I will hold off on any additional DAC trials until the DA-2 has arrived and is well burned in.
That being said, I seam to have people send me dacs to try out and compare. If/when that happens I will report and let you know. For example, my neighbor's Berkely Ref DAC with usb/SPDIF converter should be arriving early next week. We will burn it in on his system and then I will borrow it and report. He also just got an Aurender N10 music server so I can start playing with that and will report shortly as well. I want to give that 100-200 hours to burn in.
In the meantime I received a very unique product from Waversa that I was asked to play with and evaluate. It is called the W Smart Hub and is probably amongst the first of a new line of product that will start to emerge with the onset of Renderer's, NAS drives and Internet integration. It is essentially a battery isolated Audiophile grade Data Hub. It has both usb and Ethernet ports on back. Usb goes between server/DAC and Ethernet between NAS/network and between server/renderer. Each signal is repowered from the battery, totally isolating it from any external power and then each port is filtered to isolate noise. It sounds cool but I have not had time to actually install it in the system. I'll try the Ethernet part first, then the usb, then both. Let's see.... I can say it's built to a very high quality level with a very nice fit and finish. |
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@Hew, hopefully. I'm with Mike. The current interface is incredibly frustrating, having to log in twice in a row between the old and new platform! |
Not derail the thread much more, but it seems they are about to update the forum interface in a big way. I just got a link to check out the beta version. |
Is it just laziness? most high end forums are run by audiophiles....and use generic software which gets updated as part of the licensing. Audiogon is a business with a closed/unique piece of software. the forum part is an 'expense'....and not a 'fun thing' for them. not saying they are not nice people or don't want to help. but it costs money. what would be their ROI on making the change? there is your answer. |
Mike - how's the Trinity treating you?
The purpose built power conditioner for the MSB is supposed to be arriving today so I'll be able to add that in and get final thoughts on the MSB DAC.
The settings are interesting. I don't notice big differences at all on the Upsampling options but the filter changes dramatically change the sound. I'll play some more and report. |
Almarg, it works. Thanks.
Why don't they just add new posts at the top? Is it just laziness? |
10-13-15: Tbg
I have no idea what the last post is on this thread as I am tired of always having to spend time going through all the pages. As an alternative to Mike's suggestion, near the bottom of whatever page opens, just above the "post your response" box, just click on the ">>" if it is present, or on the right-most page number if it is not present. That will take you directly to the latest page, without having to go through the previous pages. Regards, -- Al |
Norm,
I hate (and I mean actual hate) the Audiogon forum interface. it's mostly driven me away from the forum. but there is an easy way to get to the latest post without going through the whole thread. just select 'last' 24 hours of forum threads and then scroll down to this thread. then click on the last post you see and you will be near the end, the 'last 24 hours' does not refresh right away so many times there are posts you don't see until you actually click on the post.
I actually enter the forum from 'buy' on the main page and then select community -> forums -> 12 or 24 hours.
maybe there is a better way. but it's the least maddening way I've found. |
I have no idea what the last post is on this thread as I am tired of always having to spend time going through all the pages. After page 11, I will not post any longer. |
Guido - no worries. I didn't take it as an insult. Just pointing out.
Melbguy1 - cool. Enjoy those S7's! |
Matt, yeah the SCD-025Mk2 is a wonderful sounding rb dac. Of the other dacs you mentioned, I've only had direct experience with the Soulution 500 & 700 series spinners & CH D1 with the optional dac board. Of course I really liked the Soulution 745 which sounded amazingly smooth, resolving and musical, though not cheap!
I also run a Vitus SIA-025 integrated which is a lovely integrated & had planned on upgrading to the new SS-025 power amp & SL-102 pre, but re-ordered my priorities and am now upgrading my speakers to Magico S7's which I think will give me a bigger improvement. |
Hi Matt, sorry... I did not imply that you enjoyed CH Precision. It's just that the sound of the brand is beyond my ability to grock. Yet, I am glad that some audio lovers do have an affinity to it.
G.
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Guido, I didn't say I liked all of those options. Just that they were considered statement products. I heard an all CH system with $100k+ Zellaton speakers and neither the electronics nor the speakers were to my taste. But to some it is their holy grail and I would not want to take that away from them.
I forgot to add the new Soulution DAC I heard at RMAF. And the DAC that was in the Vivid and German Physiks room. The name currently escapes me. Lots of serious choices these days. |
I hope that CH Precision has evolved since I heard it two years ago at RMAF. To my ears, the suite was a veritable ear bleeder... Positively acrid. I asked the gent if perhaps the system was fresh out of the box and needed a bit of break-in... Gent became very irrited.... Told me that the system sounded the way it should.... CH Precision does not need any break in.... Sounds perfect right out of the box.
Thus, picked up my test CD, and... Left for sweeter pastures.
Thank goodness MSB was across the isle. I quickly reconciled with the world of audio: I was enchanted.
G. |
Melbguy- the Vitas gear is still on that short list of true uber dacs.
Vitus, DCS, MSB, CH Precision, Trinity, Emm Labs new just introduced DA-2, and some would put the Berkeley Reference DAC and the Lampy Golden Gate in that list....
At that list level it truly becomes personal preference and system integration.
Are you using Vitus amps and preamp as well? |
Tbg- which room did you turn around and leave? |
Branislav, I had a very good RMAF, but attendance seemed down. It is far and away the best show in my opinion. |
I wish I could have been there. Maybe I would have done the same, who knows :-). I'm coming next year for sure... |
Branislav, it must be different strokes for different folks. I went to that room and turned around and left. |
I mentioned the Vitus RD-100 dac earlier, but I have to say that as my current Vitus SCD-025Mk2 dac plays in, I have been astonished at how resolving and analogue-like this dac is. I previously owned one of the best Delta Sigma dacs ever made; a Vimak DS-1800Mk2, and the Vitus is on a whole nuther level. The SCD-025Mk2 is essentially a full Signature series dac, with a heavily modded Phillips Pro2LF transport. Vitus use ADI1955 dac chips, a new in-house designed & built upgradeable master clock, new I/V converter, new analogue modules etc and is basically a whole new beast. Vitus use sample rate conversion and achieve a sample rate of 384kHz with 24bit resolution. The analogue stages are taken from the SL-102 preamp & the multi-regulated power supplies are built around very efficient UI-core transformers (ala their Signature series power amps). It is a top flight dac & deserves to be playing at the top level of RB standard converters. |
Wisnon,
I get it man. It was just a suggestion, and is obviously a contender, given the caliber of the current pieces under eval. That's ok here, right?? |
Thats great to hear Mike! its nice to know we can find landings to relax and enjoy for lengths of time as we slowly climb this crazy mountain. Sounds like the Trinity might be as good as those initial reviews suggested.
I tried a few of the upsampling and filter settings. Upsample 3 doesn't work (I think its a test sample that needs to be removed from what I was told). Upsample 2 and 1 are subtle but 2 seams to highlight the low frequency punch a bit more and widen the soundstage a bit. I haven't decided overall if I like upsmapling on or off yet, but it definitely gives a perception of accuracy over turning it off…
The filters were way more dramatic. On a quick listen (had to run to work) the 32x seams to romanticize things a bit compared to the 16x which seams to be more neutral. the 16x also highlighting trailing edges more giving each instrument more life and character. The Lanczos filter sorta freaked me out a bit… It gave me detailed and highlighted little ancillary sounds that I had never ever heard before. Clicks of a stick on a drum and taps of a stick on a high hat; fingers actually plucking strings. I swear I heard someone sigh at one point in the recording. The 16x did this as well but it was more uniformly integrated into the music. The Lanczos actually highlighted those ancillary sounds to almost a distracting level. On initial attempt, I prefer the 16x. I didn't try the minimum phase setting yet. next time... |
Sorry Guido.
Up-sampling: off, 1,2,3
Filter: 32x, 16x, Lanczos 3, Minimum Phase
Playing with them now. |
Matt,
I'm a solid state guy with my darTZeel, always aiming for natural neutrality and having a signal path that gets out of the way of the music. the Trinity is certainly that with ultimate transparency and linearity......along the lines of my analog gear both vinyl and RTR tape.
the Galaxy clock on that V Diamond is 77 femto. then there is a 33 femto clock from MSB for another $10K (which would push the MSB you are listening to from a $42k list to $52k).
the Trinity clocks are 28 femto.
I have no way of quantitating the sonic significance of clock speed. likely implementation is more the issue.
but something wonderful is happening with the Trinity and any idea of it somehow being tonally 'warm' is quite foreign to my sensibilities. having body and substance would be an operative descriptor.....like analog.
and as one's tastes develop over time these things become more and more important. I know how my body reacts to an extended listening session with the Trinity compared to previous extended listening with redbook. while it's intense I never get that 'wrung out' feeling I use to get. |
Matt, can the MSB DAC be tuned through upsampling settings and filters, or is it a "launch & forget" type? |
Thanks Mike. I have heard amazing things about the Trinity. I look forward to getting my hands on one.
I was surprised at Vince's choice of speaker at RMAF for such a sophisticated system, to be honest. But having the essentially same DAC in my home for about a week now I find its overal tone and texture to have been well represented on the Quads. I have been told that the faster clocks increase resolution and reduce noise and jitter resulting in an ever more analog sound overall. The "warmth" of the MSB is described as our brains interpretation of a lack of noise and jitter giving a sense of analog resolution more akin to LP. I see and hear that, I do.
At this level it's such personal preference and the way it melds into the system....
With an inherent level of "warmth" in my Burmesters I find the Emm to mate a tad better then the "analog resolution" that the MSB is providing. Maybe a faster clock would change that, maybe not. But I also think I haven't listened close to enough yet to really settle in to an opinion.
Your experience and input are greatly appreciated Mike. Thanks. |
Regarding all of my DAC reviews and options I will restate over and over, as Wisonon very eloquently just did, that my opinions are just that. I chose what I like most in my room and my system. Pretty much every DAC I have heard can be the front end of a killer system with the right marching gear, right room and right ears.
Case in point is the differing of opinion on the gear I bring in with my friends who come to listen. I had someone else come over yesterday who much preferred the warmer sound of the MSB. This stuff is all SO DAMN GOOD that none of them are losers. It's all opinion, in this case my opinion.
I just try to report the differences so that others can use them to pick the voicing and qualities that they think would best match their system and their tastes. Consider it a community service blog. Lol.
I will say I have had universally positive responses with no negative comments regarding my Burnester gear (other then that my room is hot) and my Consequence Ultimates.
I'm sitting right now to listen for an hour or so to the MSB. Let's see how it sounds after running it nonstop for 3 days. |
Matt,
I heard the MSB V Diamond with Galaxy clock at RMAF.....if only on CD....which was disappointing as I wanted to hear it in high rez PCM. but my impression on the familiar piano CD that they played is that the Trinity dac I'm now using is better, more tonally complete and more non digital sounding. granted; it's thru a whole different system than my own so any concept of comparison is provisional.
but if you are considering a dac that sells for $42k......then the Trinity dac starts to become a consideration. and considering the thread title.....
I'm just say'n....
the Trinity dac continues to astound me with it's magic. if the ultimate PCM is your goal.....I think this is it.
I've been a huge dsd fan for 15 years, and my 3000 CD's had sat 'dormant' for maybe the last 10 years unloved. with the Trinity dac as the impetus, in the last month I've ripped 1500 of my 3000 CD's and acquired more PCM hirez. I now have about 7-8 terabytes of PCM to go along with my 8 terabytes of dsd. I've been having so much fun getting reaqauainted with all those CD's that now sound superb.
YMMV, just my 2 cents, and all that stuff. |
Never read anything about poor Vapor quality? Oh my... |
Vyokyong- thank you for your input. It's a shame so many of these horror stories about Vapor are on the Internet. Vapor and Salk seam to use similar drivers in different configurations. But Salk has nothing but raves of his humble nature, responsiveness, product quality and reliable delivery. While Vapor has great show presence and does have a strong following but also has this dark side on the Internet. If I am interpreting Vapor's issue correctly I believe that he probably handles most of his product and shipment without issue but when conflict or miscommunication exist he may not handle it well and let's his temper get the best of him; and because of the ease of the Internet those interaction are quick to make the front page (so to speak).
I can say that I have met them twice at shows and they have been very professional and put together very good rooms overall.
My impression with Vapor is to make sure everything is well laid out and there are no miscommunications. I have never read anything bad about product quality, just posts like the one above....
With that said, I'd very much like to avoid turning this fun thread into one of twenty Vapor obsessed threads that become nothing more then pissing matches.
So let's keep the Vapor talk to the Vapor threads please. I mentioned them as a point of review of the quality of sound in their room. That was all. |
