|
Here's the next "latest" on the market.
http://www.caryaudio.com/products/dmc-600se-digital-music-center/ |
More points of interest on the new Cary Audio DAC with on-board reclocker and separate independent solid state or vacuum tube analog output stages to choose.
So many new things to learn about DAC technology :-
http://www.caryaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/DMC-600-DMC-600SE-Features.pdf |
Thanks for all the detail on the various options available with the K-01. I talked to dealer in Canada who is extremely experienced with Esoteric gear including the P-01/D-01, VU models of both, P-03/D-03 and as of late the P-02/D-02 and K-01/K-03. The dealer mentioned that the upgrade path is not finalized yet for K-01 to the X model and that the initial upgrade will be limited with a full upgrade from K-01 to X with all diffs accommodated might be in the $10K range.
Matt: Best of luck in your Burmester hunt/acquisition; let us know how it turns out. Send me an in-mail/PM to let me know what you are looking for on the K-01 as I may take this path though the P-02 and D-02 are still haunting me :-) |
The DMC600SE is basically Cary's version of the Romulus Signature. No?
Its not a music server.... Its a dac with a Cd transport (previously known as a CD player)... |
Kana813 and grannyring, pardon me, I tried to pull up the location that was provided of what the both of you are talking about with failure, please, I want to understand as to why the both of you are selling out? |
Audiolabyrinth, they are kidding. |
I'm officially holding off on my next DAC audition (Allnic and Romulus) until my room is done. The guy who is providing some of my room treatments (Vicoustics) is also an Allnic dealer. I reached out to Joh about a January/Feb audition of the Romulus Sig; waiting to hear back from him.
Sheetrock goes up Sunday and next week. All electrical is done. Then spakle, molding, paint, carpet, treatments, furniture and stereo in. Realistically hoping for a mid to late January move in.
If any news, I'll update you on the Burmester situation. Keep your fingers crossed.
Has anyone heard the new Cary DAC? Is it a player? |
Beeswax - what you say is far from the real truth. The SQ of DACs has little to do with the generation of chips used. Async technology is a big improvement as far as reducing jitter, but the design and implementation are still much more important. Its really easy to use the latest and greatest chips and technology and achieve a really harsh and fatiguing sound. There rae dozens of examples of this out there. What is hard is to use older chips and achieve a really pleasing, analog sound, with no detail or frequencies masked.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Hi Lloydc, Man!, I feel gullable at times, I fell for that,thanks for the realization of the truth, I take this thread serious, I bet they are laughing off their chairs, good one fellows. |
One company that uses 'older' DAC chips and pulls off amazing sound is AMR. Their reference DAC is not only available at a killer price but also offers amazing results, very musical, detailed and pleasing! |
Anyone with experience with the Canadian Resonessence Labs Mirus DAC? |
@mattnshilp. Yes that would be me I have the resonessence invicta dac. I use the sdxc card ps to listen to most of my music. I have someone upconvert my music to dsd using KORG audiogate and I use the sdxc cards that are 128gb and can hold about 30 albums in dsd. My friend Bob Spence recommended this option to me. I'm going to purchase the 256gb to get 60 albums on each. I prefer not to have my dac run through my computer. The sdxc cards allow me to do that. I love this dac and it will be with me for a long time. I heard the psaudio against it and it held its ground pretty good. I'm happy and won't be changing it. Great detail, weight, soundstage and imaging. Highly recommended!!! |
Yes, the best thing about the Invicta is the built in SDXC TRANSPORT. This is the cleanest transport out there, really. I wish 1TB cards were out and were affordable. |
Yup you don't end up worrying about the cables, transport or the cpu making any noise. It takes the cpu out of the equation after you store things on sdxc cards. |
Sandisk has announced a 512GB full size SD/XC card in September 2014. List Price is a little steep at $799. This might be the largest SD/XC currently available. See:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/12/6139057/sandisks-512gb-sd-card-is-the-biggest-in-the-world
I suspect we might see 1TB cards in 12 to 18 months.... Meantime, 512GB in a solid state media player is nothing to sneeze about already. G. And this card targeting photographers and vidographers should be fast enough to minimize any jitter caused by data reads.
|
And if your DAC supports USB thumbdrives, 1TB USB sticks are already available. See for example this hefty Kingston
device, currently priced at Amazon for $997:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E65QM8O/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1418496148&sr=8-1
G. |
Trinity DAC
Any thoughts?
It sounds like an Uber version of my ODSE.
Steve, have you heard a Trinity? |
Mattnshilp,
I mentioned the Trinity Dac on this thread several months back. I think it's one of the best out there although I have not heard it.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1398132150&openflup&1100&4#1100 |
Its $52K, so….U can expect a lot for that.
I heard it with PSA Transport and Vivid Giya speakers.
It was very good, but the music was unfamiliar as were the speakers.
All this is a matter of taste, but the Trinity has a lot of cool tech inside. Analog oversampling, Lianotec, etc. |
Mattnshilp I think you are on the quest to hear every dac on the planet, more power to you. If you continue there is no end to this task. I recommend to put your efforts into a good analog system. |
Lol.
I actually have a relatively short list of DACs left (currently) to hear. But some of them are very expensive. I'll do it slowly. No Rush.
And I have a pretty good analog system. My Teres Audio table and Graham 2.2 arm are pretty darn good. The Denon cartridge is not the best, but it's pretty good. And I'm working on a phono stage upgrade. So the analog is there, do no fret.
The whole point of this wandering thread is Top Tier Red Book DAC. It's a lifelong goal. The rest of my system is metamorphosing into something quite miraculous as the upgrades, room build, and search progresses. The SW gets better and better, and the search is so much fun! I'm learning so much and meeting such nice people along the way. |
There are so many great DAC's these days. Some require more effort, some more $$$, some more room, some more cable. I could probably put a list together of the ten or so DAC's that's are keeping everyone excited. For example, the Phasure is supposed to be great, but requires the same tweaking and effort that a tube roller puts in to get that last bit of performance. I can tell you that even playing with the 3 upsampling settings and 3 filter settings on my k-01 was a timely process (of course, it was necessary and I found the best settings for me, but timely and tweaks nonetheless). The famed DCS stack has an impeccable reputation if your ok with 4 units taking up space and all of the expensive interconnects/power cords to feed them (upsampler/DAC/clock/transport) - I'm not; too costly and too much room occupied. Then, of course, there are the tubed wonders of the DAC world; Zanden, Ypsilon, Lampy, Wavelength, Aesthetix, etc - all different prices, all wonderful in the right system. I think that the Lampy 7, Romulus and Zanden are standing tall in their respective price points. Then we have MBS and Trinity which both intrigue me, as well as Alex's top tier M DAC which I hope to hear sooner or later. And of course, Steve is working on an uber version of my ODSE, the ODSX.
Yes, I am a card carrying member of the Taste Every Chocolate In The Box club. It's who I am; and why tube gear and solid state kit like the Phasure are not as intriguing to me. I'm learning so much as I progress. It's not just what's the best, because that's a silly concept; it's what's best in your system, with your ears and your room and your audio processing equipment in your brain.
That said, I do really want to hear the Allnic DAC and the Romulus SE and I would look forward to someone bringing over a Lampy 7 to listen to as well. I have read enough now to hear that there is a significant difference in sound between the 6 I heard so long ago and the current top tier 7. Although I will quite flatly say that I would prefer a solid state DAC in my rack unless a tubed variant blows me away. It's not tube replacement that bothers me (DAC's don't chew through tubes like amps and preamps), but the constant need to seek out the magic NOS tube to get the kit another step closer; it would eventually drive me to misery.
I'd like to hear that Light Harmonic DaVinci, Trinity DAC and the MSB Diamind DAC just to know what that level offers in comparison to what I currently own and have tasted.
I'm in the final stages of upgrading my system quite dramatically. I'll report more when it's finalized, although it's not really a surprise. Needless to say the system is taking a huge step towards a higher level of resolution, subtlety, finesse, dynamics, spacial definition and all around musical orgasmatronicon. |
Oops. Forgot to add the Berkely super DAC lest someone berate me. It keeps falling off my radar because it doesn't have a USB input. And the current Mike Lavigne selection, Playback Designs. Or the really cool looking Antelope, which I have not heard but have read great things about. Or the Concert Fidelity tube DAC, which has its own cult following. So many to chose from.... We are lucky to have such wonderful choices. And in the right room, each can give their owner the magic we all so intensely seek. |
Guys, I"m not trying to be a smartass at all, but how can any of us make a statement that something is of the best or sounds great if we haven't heard it? Just because something gets big press doesn't mean it sounds good and just because it it expensive or even costs more than another product doesn't mean it sounds better.
The one constant in this thread and the reason most are still interested is that Matt is actually listening to everything. Do I have Matt's ear? No, but the way he is sharing makes me think that I get a really good idea of what things can sound like IF they match my own system/room. It's a starting place and that's why some small companies need or love a thread like this as it helps them get their name out etc... It also keeps reminding me why I'm still a brick and mortar guy. I understand better why many of you love to just get stuff on the net and resell if you don't like it. When I was younger, I'd have been THAT guy possibly.
4orreal, this isn't against you at all. I know it seems that way, but please read closer to what my beef is and I think you'll understand. Again, it's my thing and not others. Thanks.
I will be doing my digital in a year or so as I want to wait a bit as things are just getting going. I wonder how dated these devices will get in two years from now??? That's a major reason some of us aren't 'on the bus' yet an are using a sub 1500k DAC and aren't even streaming yet etc... This thread continues to stay a classic and relevant because it's up to date and when things are upgrades, we hear about them right away. Thanks again Matt. Hope I haven't threadjacked... |
4orreal - yes you did. My bad. I love that, like my ODSE, it is designed to sound its best from its USB input and that it is a single box solution with the up sampling software and clock built in (like the MSB). I am surprised it doesn't have an external power supply like the MSB, but the designer actually went from a 3 box system with left and right power supply isolated and external to a single unit with built in PS. And the listening test I read about with it being compared to the DCS described is as more Musical. Color me intrigued.
As sources migrate over time from transport to server (which I think will be the trend) I am curious to see how that affects utilization of interconnect modality. According to the Trinity designer, USB is the best method to transfer asynchronous bytes. From what I understand, his transport is designed to best send signal via USB. I always thought I2S was the most direct path from transport to DAC. I have also read that many now think that Ethernet will be the best signal path for future digital.
Good things are coming my friends. |
Matt - have not heard the Trinity or even heard of it.
I have had the ODSX for many months now and I'm convinced that nothing out there beats it at any price. I'm in the process of trying Jupiter caps in place of Duelund. Duelunds take a long time to break in.
The production version of ODSX is coming along. Panels and knobs are in finishing process now.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Steve- did you implement the XMOS into the ODSX ?
Panels and knobs? I thought you were using the same enclosure and form factor as the ODSE...
What was your solution regarding Ethernet vs usb input? |
I sure would not spend past the 20K mark for a dac. As in one year there will be a new one at half the price and better. If you want to sell your old two year dac you will take a bath. Could you imagine spending 120k on the DCS stack and find something else better at 40k. Sorry with digital I'm not going the high expensive route. |
12-14-14: Jwm
I sure would not spend past the 20K mark for a dac. As in one year there will be a new one at half the price and better. If you want to sell your old two year dac you will take a bath. Could you imagine spending 120k on the DCS stack and find something else better at 40k. Sorry with digital I'm not going the high expensive route. +1. Much like computers, the rate of change is high and thus large expenditures are plain foolish although guys playing that game have more money than they know what to do with. Furthermore, if Matt did a proper blinded shootout with multiple listeners and with some cheapo dacs in the rotation, the results would be surprising. Most people are scared to do that. If your go to dac is a $200 NOS chinese dac, other philes won't burn incense at your alter.... |
I have enjoyed reading your audio journey matt, very informative to say the least. |
@Mattnshilp
Have you played your PCM/red book converted to DSD on the PC/Mac by the player software?
I have been trying this out in a small way as a substitute for the Perfect Wave DSD, which impressed me to no end, and with the new firmware impressed me even more, this time in my own system.
I am thinking that one can have higher quality sound per $ if you do all the conversion math in the computer and exit to DAC a DSD stream via USB (or DLNA ethernet when it is really tried and tested adult tech) and forego a real output stage in the DAC leaving gain to the preamp thus making PS and gain electronics out of the cost equation and having S/PDIF as a convenience utility or not at all rather than being the main input. |
Steve.
Burn in time doesn't bother me. I want the best sound possible. Please don't compromise on caps for burn in time. Use the best parts possible. |
I have been consistently impressed with Empirical over the last many years. As new designs are discovered he offers mods at a nominal price. His most recent mod made the SPDIF converter obsolete with the odse. Matt, I agree that quality trumps price and break in time. I am sure the sx price will reflect those quality parts. |
Matt -the plan is to put either XMOS USB interface or Network Renderer Ethernet interface on the SX DAC. Still working on the XMOS prototype and almost ready to tape-out the network renderer module.
SX uses the same size chassis, but new panels and a new knob with a diamond in it.
Steve N.
Emmpirical Audio |
Steve, what is the function of the diamond in the volume knob?
G. |
|
May I suggest an option sens-diamonds... Some users might prefer an understated look. G. |
I fear I take my dac to a jeweler for some mods and they switch to a less quality cap...er. I mean diamond. |
I was kidding. I have no idea.
The ODSE has a very attractive industrial appearance. And it's sound is sublime. No bling necessary. Lol
Maybe it absorbs high frequency vibration in the chassis or something equally tweaky. :) |
The diamond is the pointer. This pointer has magical powers.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Ketcham - I only use the very best D-color excellent-cut diamonds. I know my diamonds.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Hi audioengr, have you come to terms with a price for this diamond sx dac?, maybe you can include the word diamond into the model name, would not hurt, many other audio company's do. |
Al - I believe SX will be in the $10K range. I'll think about the diamond name. Maybe Diamond SX.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Audioengr, That model name is catchy, I believe it would go over well, that would be a name most would not forget, that name can promote sales, I am glad I could recommend something that I believe would work, ask others here, I bet they would agree. |
I too think Diamond SX would be good branding, reflecting a stellar audio product. |
Audioengr,quick question.
Does the diamond add any type of improvement to sound quality? If not,may I ask,why add unnecessary cost to the dac when I'm sure the money could be better utilized elsewhere.Or,maybe I'm not getting the diamond thing.
Or could the diamond be of such low quality that its value is moot to the cost of the unit? |
AOL - the Diamond SX is significantly better than the SE. Better focus, more 3-D, better imaging. Literally everything going on in the music track is crystal clear and pinpoint image.
The Diamond is some bling to insure that the customer feels that his investment is worth it and also to distinguish my top DAC from the Overdrive SE. Its also nice to point out that even the dCS at 5-10X the price does not have any diamonds on it. This definitely beats it.
There is literally nothing I can think of that would make this DAC have better SQ, at any price. I'm already using the best capacitors on the planet.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Let me know when your Diamond SX is ready for prime-time production model is ready for an audition. I'm dying to hear it!!!!
Over Drive - Diamond SX
ODDSX
I like it.
Thoughts for best sound possible:
--> Upgraded all internal wire and cable, Upgrade footers to reduce vibration, upgrade cabinet to reduce micro resonance and increase damping, isolate and separate power supply (do you need to go to a separate power supply for left and right channel?), upgrade all cable connections, upgrade umbilical power cord, isolated DAC's and schematics for DSD and PCM (although I think the SX is PCM only), improve upon those recessed toggles all the way on the right (they are not easy to flip). That's it. I'm no engineer, but these are the first things the other guys do...
Just thinking out loud. |
That did jog me. One possibility is an external linear supply rather than the SMPS I use. I would be really big box though, about 10X of the DAC.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
