... abit confused: how does a power cord affect the presentation of sound...

FYI, I’ve been comparing Anticables to my looms of very expensive MIT and Transparent stuff.  The Anticables speaker cables are stunningly good.  Transparent Gen 5 IC’s seem to deliver best source transfer and my MIT Magnum Digital cable is unbeatable for my BluOS Vault!  Their PC however is a tremendous bargain.

>Measurements do not tell the whole story. Play A note with a cheap >violin the meter will show 440Hz. Play the same note with a Stradivarius >the same meter will also show 440Hz.
>Verdict? Trust you ears.

The dominant frequency of both will be 440hz but the spectrum of frequencies will be totally different and absolutely measureable.

If a power filter is required (and it does!) buy a power filter.
It cost 1/5 of one of those fancy power cords, but filters much more than 5x a cable.

Any addition of an active electronic component, never mind how small, will add to the noise level... :) At least a cord add not a noise of his own being passive....Engineering is the art of trade-off...There is always a cost to pay if someone add an electronic component to the gear or to the system....What i say is about active filter, but passive filter is perhaps a good idea... I prefer my minerals and stones.... :)

Yes, i use passive minerals to filter my grid.... With success at peanuts costs...

I will not argue further because adult brain are opinionated and my goal was reach, hi-fi at low cost, and with only non orthodox homemade methods... I succeed... :)

If i had confidence only in measurements the cost to improve would have been way higher.... Happily i trust only my ears and play with the 3 dimensional embeddings of my audio system with my ears experiments guidance only... :)

« Dont ask if it is possible, create it» - Groucho Marx

« It dont take genius, it takes only time» -Harpo Marx

b4icu,
I have already said. Trust your ears. Measurements do not tell the whole story.
also...
please don’t get technical. I can’t help with that.

Ya. No music along the power cord but idea is the same. No?

No.

Interesting about the Stradivarius. Read about a test they did with master violinists who picked the new violins as the best sounding over the Stradivarius when they didn’t know which one was playing. Trust your ears not your eyes.

https://www.livescience.com/44651-new-violins-beat-stradivarius.html

Some violonist choose ancient instrument some other modern one, in these interesting tests, the choice tough is for each their own....

Thanks for this more than interesting article djones....

In an audio system the choices of components is not objective truth also....In some case cables whatever the price makes little differences, greater in other case....

At all times trust your ears for choosing something you will love, not for establishing objective truths....

« Truth hurt my ears, your voice do not » - Groucho Marx

djones,
Thanks for the interesting article.

mahgister,
Fully agree with you.
Hearing is believing. Nothing can beat this.

You will hear it when you believe it.

You will hear it when you believe it.

Equating all perception with hallucinations and placebos is first, self defeating, and second, immature knowledge...

Think 5 seconds about that:  how do you explain a step by step incremental process of qualitative modifications translating in a better S. Q. ; a sustained hallucination in time ?

« We need brain with the ears but especially some consciousness »  -myself  

The brain is a wondrous machine.

.... but a terrible thing to waste.

:)

The brain is not a machine...

It is impossible to waste it....

Consciousness is linked to a work not mostly of the brain, but of myself on myself....The waste is in this lack of "my" work....

Brain dont create consciousness, except in very old science textbook....

And brain is not a computer nor an A.I. except for some similarities in the focus of some engineers mostly paid by Google.... :)

Like the eye is not a camera except for some similarities ....

This is well said: « The human eye is not a recording device, like a camera, but is more like an intelligent search engine that actively sorts through the visual information that is continuously streaming toward it. Visual perception is, in fact, the act of visual selection.» from the net...  

Correct. Ears are not microphones. 

We create the music. Ourselves. Without us there is not only no music, there isn't even any sound. The old puzzle if a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it does it make a sound? No. It vibrates the air. Sound is a phenomenon of hearing. To hear a sound requires a listener. No listener, no sound. 

We create the music.

We create with love even ourself...And it is not a placebo experience at all.....Or is it not also a beneficial one? Why not, illusion and reality are like 2 entwined snakes, the emblem of medecine....


:)

I would wish i could listen to Bill Charlap, a tremendous jazz pianist i just discovered today, on your new speakers.....He sound gorgeous on my modest audio system :)

Brain dont create consciousness, except in very old science textbook....

Sometimes I wonder where you get these notions?  Very old textbooks?


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190501153354.htm

Sound in a physical sense exists without a listener. Need to quit viewing everything from an anthropomorphic lens.

Sound like vibrations exist without consciousness.... But a non interpretated sound by no consciousness is not a "sound" .... certainly not a musical sound....Or a speech sound....

The fact that exist correlations between the manifestation of consciousness and some material measured phenomena in the brain are in no way the proof that the brain create consciousness....

Magazine are "magazine" not science in the philosophical purest sense.... The title of this article is on par with advertisement in Audio magazine ( "How our brain generates consciousness -- and loses it" )... :)

One of the best specialist of anesthesia in the world Stuart Hameroff is a friend of Roger Penrose and none of the two think that brain create consciousness, it is the reverse.... But textbooks and articles are often loaded with old paradigm.... in audio and in science....

By the way the source of this article is :  Data Science Institute at Columbia
Guess who gives them money? probably google  and their crowd of transhumanist ideologue....

I really want that good Google machine someone owns here. Master googler. Who needs brains? A nice Google machine does it.

By the way half of science research on brain and computer is paid by google, and google is the main lobby guiding the research....It is no more pure science.... In medecine the most influential person in the world is the microsoft founder....Where is science?

Yes, it was a magazine article about research on consciousness done at the Data Science Institute at Columbia. It isn't like a music review magazine. The idea the brain creates consciousness isn't something new as you point out. The that the brain creates consciousness is our modern day working theory it isn't the old paradigm but our continuing paradigm. . It isn't something buried in old textbooks that noone takes seriously. 

Thyname, he will never understand, because he chooses not to.

Sure new paradigm slowly manifest ...

Affirming that brain create consciousness is not science, at best it is a working hypothesis.... the main actual one for a short time again , but no more a sound working hypothesis only but today mainly an ideology paid by transhumanist theologians... Research go where the money want it to go....

Textbook in neurology are old after few years.... :)

But djones i will give you the point of victory, because my experience and opinion are not mainstream science for now.....My point is made and i dont want to argue too much....

:)

Well this working hypothesis is now looking at 3 specific regions of the brain that bring about consciousness. It isn't to create some nefarious post human society but in the hope of being able to bring someone out of a vegetative state. I don't look for points of victory just logic and rationalism. Granted a thread about uber dollar power cords affecting the sound of music is a strange place to look for it. 

You are not wrong djones....Not completely right also.... :)

But in spite of this laudable medical motivation the paradigm that brain create consciousness is greatly sponsored by Google lobbying and this paradigm is relatively new in human history (200 hundred years) and in the verge to be replaced tomorrow by a more spiritual conception, it is beginning now for those who read in all areas of science....

Read Hameroff and Penrose for example.... It was also the opinion of John Eccles Nobel neurologist etc...

I will repeat myself, "correlations" between the coming out of consciousness or his manifestation and anesthesiological technique for is temporary suppression in the sensible world are not proof nor cause of his genesis by the brain...

Correlations and causes are 2 different business and concepts....

People must work hard to perceive the whole and the wholeness, they easily confine themselves to external parts of phenomena....

Where else would you look for consciousness but the brain? Certainly not the liver. 

We already know the brainstem is likely responsible for arousal, awareness the other prerequisite for consciousness we're not so sure of, but if arousal is in the brain then that's where we look for awareness. 

You completely miss my point.... I am afraid that i cannot go on with this subject here.... Too long to explain....

But in a word the consciousness is linked to the brain like a radio is linked to the music or a TV to the meteo summary but neither are in the radio or in the Tv... The Brain is an antenna sort of....Conciouness is like the voice that seems to be in the radio and seems to be  in the Tv but are not there at all...

The brain is a fractal antenna.... In 3 words my metaphor resume my point.....

You believe consciousness is outside the body, dualism. 

Read books by Bernardo Kastrup it is not too heavy and are very good...

My master thinker is Goethe and countless others ....


No i am not a dualist at all.... :)

Matter does not exist since 1925 (quantum mechanics) except for some engineer... :)

If you like physics read David Bohm a friend of Einstein and a Dirac Disciple...

For the brain the more simple to read is holographic idea by Pribram a friend of Bohm... For Pribram a very influential neurologist the brain is an active fractal antenna and the universe is a kind of hologram....

The matrix idea in cinema are only materialistic gross interpretation of that by some A. I. transhumanist engineers....

Sound is totally an interpretation by the brain. 100% abstract. Pressure waves are real.
Like sound, time is totally created by the brain, its not real, it is man made. Clocks are real, time isn’t.

Music is the brains interpretation of pressure waves and time. Total fugazi by the brain.

Drugs have a greater effect on SQ than cables. Same chemistry is at work in your brain when you know you have switched or paid $$$ for new wires.  Its a natural human chemical defense mechanism to justify your bias.

:)

Prints are real, poetry is not....

My wife perfume are real, his love is not...

For me it is the reverse....

Clocks are material artefact then illusory without the consciousness that read them and create them....

Pressure waves are illusory phenomena if not interpretated by consciousness...

You read too much bad science....Matter does not exist at all, by the way since Planck discovery...

I apologize for my sarcasm.... But.... Awake yourself....

By the way read about prime numbers they are more complex than the universe, they are infinite, and they are printed nowwhere like the truest poetry...

Timely and relevant (for this thread) is what Paul McGowan posted today on his newsletter (copy / paste):

-----------

I had to smile while reading this comment to a recent video: “I agree with most you say….except about the wires and power cables….but I still subscribe and like! so there!”

Yes indeed. So there. This issue of wires and cables making a difference for some and not for others is one of continual fascination for me. It begs a twist on the age-old question about trees falling in woods without anyone hearing them.

“If I hear cable differences in my system and you are not around to listen, can you make a sweeping edict those differences do not exist?”

Upon questioning cable deniers—their angry eyes ablaze and pitchforks raised high—most admit they’ve never actually tried comparing cables on a resolving system. To them, it just cannot work. There’s no need to actually see for themselves because that would be the height of foolishness—like testing the efficacy of gravity whilst standing atop a ladder.

And so the fallback position is to demand proof before they will consider it.

I am guessing an overwhelming fear of being called out as a fool is the key motivator of cable deniers—understandable as no one wants to wind up in a vulnerable place.

And still, what is true continues to be true despite our beliefs and disbeliefs: trees fall in the woods, rivers run while we sleep, cables matter on resolving systems.

From a purely physical standpoint falling trees move air creating waves of sound whether anyone is around doesn’t matter. From a psychological view when those waves hit our ears and the brain processes the vibrations we turn and see where the tree fell. So the answer to the age old question is yes and no depends whether you’re talking about physics or human perception. When we test gravity our notions don’t enter the picture. If I believe I can flap my arms and fly I’ll still fall like everyone else who tries the experiment. It’s universal not relying on my subjective view of gravity but the objective reality of it’s force. Likewise with cables, they have measurable physical properties and they will vary not only from one type of conductor to another but within the same type of conductors. Are these differences perceptible? The only honest way to answer that question is to listen and see if we can tell and the only honest way to do that is when we have no preconceptions or biases. Since all humans are afflicted with these preconceptions and biases we control for them to get answers that are more like the gravity experiment where what I think doesn’t affect the outcome, we all fall.

Someone’s done more than their share of hallucinogenics!  So cute when people struggle with science but still think they have insight into a topic...just adorable.

The squirrels heard it fall.

" The deal, ie, how it affects, how it happens... is about the instantaneous delta of the inductive collapse of the field integration of the complex model of the power cord, under high delta draw from the DUT.This area of draw or complexity of the signal in the given ’moment’ is how we as humans, hear. "

Really?  The bear isn't buying it.

Do people still read textbooks?

"Upon questioning cable deniers—their angry eyes ablaze and pitchforks raised high—most admit they’ve never actually tried comparing cables on a resolving system."

Someone inform Paul McGowant that he built his whole "insult" of "cable deniers" by equaling "most" and "all".

glupson5,893 posts07-31-2020 12:06amDo people still read textbooks?

Nope! One Google Machine and done! If it is in the internet, it must be true

Like I said before, nobody has able to devise a test to measure if a certain component is musical or analytical, or how large the soundstage or how deep ... and so on, so at the end of the day, you just have to listen.

For those who demand "measurement", I reply with "why don't you show all the parameters needed to measure".  A rhetorical question since nobody knows what the parameters are.    

That is actually quite simple:  The designer of a truly great amp does not use a crappy power cord to save a very few dollars, a practice that would make his amp sound worse so that you buy something else.  These cords thrive on the placebo effect, i.e. The more it costs, the better it must be.  Most power supplies are regulated, for one reason to keep your circuit breaker from tripping at turn on.  Another advantage is making caps, resistors, etc. last longer.  A third, incidental advantage, is to totally negate any possible advantage of a better power cord, once you have a decent one from any high end manufacturer that builds it own products. Companies that whore our their designs to be made by the cheapest bidder are the exception, but then you also get cheaper parts in the electronics.,

Guys

As a technician, audiophile and projector rebuilder of forty years experience, you have my assurance that power cords need only have large enough gauge wire for the amount of current to be carried, and decent quality plugs and sockets both ends. A power cord delivers current from a wall outlet to the equipment; there is no magic involved, just electrons.

Signal cables need only have decent conductors, bandwidth, plugs and shielding against ambient RF noise; again, no magic.

" The designer of a truly great amp does not use a crappy power cord to save a very few dollars, a practice that would make his amp sound worse so that you buy something else. These cords thrive on the placebo effect, i.e. The more it costs, the better it must be. "
I think this is true.

Do they need to cost a fortune?  No.  Do they all sound the same?  No.  Are électrons électrons?  Yes...but when put through any medium they will react differently.  Try before you buy and leave the emotions and excess grey matter at the door!

well said....

Before you turn a blind eye and believe power cables are snake oil, do your research and test for yourself and don’t fall in the trap of what other folks opinions about upgrading power cords. The reality is that some do help and others may not. It is system dependent. My advice to folks who are eager to learn is to speak with an electric engineer with your company that provides you with power to your home. If turning a blind eye is your thing and you believe that the gauge size or how the wire is designed doesn’t make a difference, then you won’t have a problem using 18, 20, or even 24 gauge wiring. How your equipment is built and what you use with it. will determine how it functions. Please  see the video for example. If you have a tuner with a reception meter, you can try this yourself. I did.
https://youtu.be/DC0s6KqQz3g

If you have a tuner with a reception meter, you can try this yourself. I did.
https://youtu.be/DC0s6KqQz3g

I tried it about 40 years ago it's how we made an antenna to get FM stations late at night. You might do more research the reason the other two wires weren't good antennas is they were twisted wire. 

Don’t just watch part of the video. Watch it from the beginning to the end. That’s like picking up a book, reading the introduction and coming to a conclusion. It has true value especially when it comes to shielding. I’m sure you wouldn’t use the first choice with your system or maybe you may. I’m not sure. However you enjoy your music is your choice.   

Do all the research you want. Nothing substitutes trying for yourself. In your own system, with your own ears. Research is good as long as it leads to picking something to actually try.

There are people like this one above you who do “research” all day, every day, and try nothing. For some very strange / weird reason. That’s the very definition of narcissism 😂😉.