6H30 replacement

Please keep us informed on your journey and what you end up with, astolfor.  We can all learn from your experience.

@astolfor

sounds like you are on the right track and you will find the answers you seek

my thought on talking to andy baumann was not to have you source ruskie 6h30’s from him, but to seek his thoughts on suitable old stock usa and euro alternatives, which i think is what you are ultimately seeking, yes? 

for example would a 7dj8/pcc88 work in your case? in modern c-j linestages that run the 6dj8’s at 6.3v and at full gain, many classic 6dj8’s lose it too soon, and as a result, it has been discovered by we c-j users that the 7dj8 is a stronger version of the same tube, can stand greater plate voltage for a much longer period and maintain top performance, and so it has become the new standard in those units

as you can imagine, anyone who has that kind of knowledge on vintage tubes is not young, and so how folks like andy they respond and how helpful they are willing to be with advice and knowledge is affected by how they are approached and asked... :)  (btw - don't get him started on old stock g-e's... hahaha)

Well astolfor, here’s a post about the DRs from the What’s Best Forum from 11 years ago:

6H30’s--Are the more expensive/megabuck versions worth the money? | What’s Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com)

Russ, a couple of years back when I was using a Modwright tube pre, I replaced the stock 6H30 pair with DR’s from The Tube Store. In my preamp, the difference was quite subtle - not near the impact of replacing the rectifier with a NOS metal-base Mullard. Based on what I’ve read on various fora, mild to moderate seems to be the most common experience. Dunno about any $700 versions.

There were some DRs for sale on Audiogon recently for $1600 each. I don’t see them here anymore. I don’t think trying different 6h30 tube brands is going to get the sound you want. I still say sell the amp and get one you like the sound of.

Have you tried other input/12ax7 tubes?

I’ve only used 12ax7’s in vintage line and phono stages, as far as HiFi goes, and for added warmth I usually ended up with Amperex or Mullard 12ax7 types over Telefunken.

I much preferred the earlier (17mm plate?) Mullards over the later short plate versions, but this was in vintage gear (might be different with modern gear).

However, Amperex was usually my first choice.

Read about 6h30 vs 6n6p and gather that substitution is a yes/no based upon the circuit bias.

DeKay

as is the norm for @jjss49  very sage advice ! i also use Andy for tubes and Mcshane is the architect behind the extensive modifications to my 1961 MC240… dude is a tube zen master.

As you now probably know Andy is none too fond of Russian tubes… ha. 

Best to all, a constructive thread for sure…

Jim

@jjss49 the tubes are for my Heritage in the USA home. I called Andy and he only deals with Western and USA tubes and will call Brent and Jim.

I am Basque/German and live in a neighborhood from Barcelona. 

@tomic601 I am jealous, last week I was in Sunnyvale (?) CA visiting my team and it was glorious! 

The Vintage Tube Services website has a great picture of how tubes matcha section on a symphony house! My dealer here in Barcelona has a similar one for the Berlin house and Vienna and it is so much fun to play with the different tubes. 

@nmolnar I have a lot of Western tube amps in my home in Spain; the Heritage, which I like a lot, especially for the cost, is in the USA and do not plan to change it. Just trying to bring it closer to what I like.

@astolfor

not sure which continent you are on

if in n america/usa, i second @tomic601 ’s recommendation re calling brent jessee... the other go-to’s are jim mcshane in illinois and andy baumann in michigan (vintage tube services) - they have been at this forever, exceptionally knowledgeable (and honest) and will tell you about 6h30 options...

if you haven't already, you might also read up on when how and why audio research went from 6dj8 input and driver tubes to pretty much exclusively 6n1p's and 6h30's for their highest tier gear... instructive...

a quick google search will yield you web and phone contacts ...

Why would  Pathos Heritage use the 6H30 if it was inferior to these legacy tubes? Feel free to tube roll but maybe you are better off getting rid of this piece for one that is designed for legacy tube rolling which have a better selection of variants.

@astolfor Doing well Sir ! Sunny California is a tonic to the soul and warms the old bones. i am especially happy today as i host a local friend for a music listening session. I have found calling Brent to be most effective, vs. email.

Best

Jim

@tomic601 Hello Jim! I reached out to Brent, hopefully he has some. If not I will get them from Upscale.

How are things there?!

Yes the DR, real ones are better. I have a set of high hour ARC stock tubes (4) you are welcome to try next time i am in Seattle. You might also try tge ARC tube dampers, imo essential on the 6H30 as ARC seem able to wrest magic out of tge combo IMO

Brent Jesse Recording supply is a trusted tub vendor w tracer matching.

best to you on the quest.

Jim

@jjss49 I got 2 different answers. One that I could replace them with the 6DJ8, 6922 or 7308, and another answer that I could not.

I "know" enough to know that the 6H30s have a big tolerance for plate voltage, and that if the amp is fully energizing the plates the 6DJ8, 6922 or 7308 will last about a blink of an eye. 

I had a BAT, and really it but there was something that I could not identify that "bothered" me, and I talked to Victor(?) the owner and he said that he was not fully energizing the plates and although I would sacrifice lifespan, I could try a couple different tubes. I tried them and I loved the amp, until I replaced the amp with a couple of nhb-458.

I really like the Heritage, but I want to try to soften(?) a little the edges. The Telefunken ECC803S-diamond mark-gold-pins, I have about 24 of them that I inherited from my father 😁, did marvels to the Heritage.

Now it is clear to me from the discussions here, that I should stay with the 6H30s or maybe 6N6P. 

@tsushima1 do you have a reliable tube source? I would love to try  the Reflector Corp 6h30 DR.

thank you

@pesky_wabbit … 👍

http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html

our good friend ficus lampizator has strong opinions on this. 6N6P - Not a western replacement, but a far easier to get and less costly (no spin) Russian one. 60‘s stock with the square getters are da bomb. I haven’t use them to replace 6H30’s personally and can not comment, but have used them in my own scratch builds and can vouch that they are great tubes judged on their own merits

@astolfor … You are quite right in seeking a better quality 6h30 , I would encourage you to acquire some pre 1990 production Reflector Corp 6h30 DR 

they are relatively expensive compared to new production Sovtek and are becoming increasingly rare with a few unscrupulous individuals particularly on Ebay

listing Sovtek’s as NOS DR’s … Caveat emptor , however once obtained and inserted into your equipment you will realise how hard and sterile sounding the Sovteks are in comparison.

This guide should be of some assistance in discerning genuine Reflector DR’s

http://www.aca.gr/index/hiend/hiendArticles?row=1988  

questions like this should always be directed at the manufacturer... who would know exactly how the spec'd tube is being run, and thus what substitutes, if any, could be used

Give yourself a little time to adjust to the sound of the new amp. If you still don’t like it, sell it and get something you like. I don’t think different brands of 6h30s will make a big difference in the sound. conrad-johnson tried them once, they were called composite triode amps and preamps, and quickly changed back to their traditional tube types. If you have to take a small loss, that’s part of the learning process in audio.

@stereo5 I checked with them.

Since I am stuck with 6H30s, I will have to look at different 6H30s than the Sovteks.

The Tubestore shows E-H and Sovtek tubes. You might also try Audio Research they use that tube in a lot of their gear.

You bought a 6H30 based amp, doubtful you can substitute as the high voltage WILL destroy the tubes.  Why not check with Pathos and see what they say?  I would start there.