Little help with REL subwoofers, please?


I'm not especially knowledgeable about subwoofers and I'd appreciate some advice. I've got a pair of Magnepan 1.7i placed in a small (long, rectangular) room. I had a hefty JL sub that shook the house but that I could never fully integrate. On a whim, I switched it out for a pair of the diminutive REL Tzero subs and the sound is vastly better. On some music, though, such as classical organ, I miss the growl and thunder. I don't feel like I need to boost the "upper bass" and I definitely don't want to muddy things up; it's really the deep rumble that I occasionally want.

If it helps, I'm thinking of a piece of music like Max Richter's "On the Nature of Daylight," which about halfway through delivers a broad, deep sweep of musical sound that I want to *feel.*

I'm mostly pleased with the setup and I don't want to reinvent my room's wheel or break the bank. And I'd like to stay with at least two subs and likely stay with REL. So I'm thinking I might: 1) add a T/9X or maybe a T/7X and perhaps keep the crossover low; or 2) swap out the Tzeros and replace them with a pair of T/7Xs. For now, a pair of T/9Xs is a budgetary stretch that I'd like to avoid (and it is a small room).

Would it be weird having two Tzeros combined with the much bigger T/9X? Would the T/7X produce that deep, enveloping bass? I'm not particularly good at reading specs but -6dB at 30Hz doesn't sound especially deep to me. (The JL was -3dB at 23Hz.) Or am I misunderstanding how bass works and would a T/7X go plenty deep in a small room?

Thanks and Happy New Year!

 

northman

My take on subs is its far more about personal sound quality preferences, room, and main speakers than the subs themselves.

 

The fact is I've enjoyed the db or low level input type subs with certain recordings and times of day I chose to listen. And I did the obsession with measurements, crawl methods, dsp, interconnects, power cables thing. My issue was I could never get a wholly consistent perfectly coherent sound to my main speakers. Different recordings and volume levels always found me making fine adjustments to crossover and gain settings on subs. I'll admit coherency is amongst most important aspects of sound quality for me, this once I had single driver speakers in a bedroom system I used to run. The magical coherency I had with that setup sensitized me forever to  incoherency. I've also built my system for max transparency, resolution at relatively low volume listening settings.

 

Thus far in my admittedly limited listening sessions with the Rel's I've finally found subs that meet my need for coherency, I only hear my Klipschorns. I've no doubt this would not be everyone's cup of tea, they'd be asking where are the subs.

 

I've been done with subs for years, the Genesis sub and dsp still sits here unused and forlorn. Its only lately that I decided to give the Rel's a try, and this driven far more by the improvements in sound staging people reported vs bass augmentation. My Klipschorns in room response at my listening position certainly aren't bass shy what with my extreme attention to getting maximum seat to the walls, custom birch ply plate at top to get full seal,  non stock woofer and crossover. Only missing lowest octives with pipe organs, synth bass.

 

So, in my case these Rel's exactly what I was looking for, just a bit more reach in lowest freq, and most impressively, the added sound stage ambience, greater recording venue information adds to an already impressive illusion of performers in room that horn speakers do like no other.

 

In the end each person has to decide for themselves, based on parameters I mentioned above, what subs will work best for themselves. @northman , Only hearing a pair of T7x or 9x in your room and setup will provide the answer for you. I'd only suggest going to another low level input sub with dsp will require another intense setup procedure. If I were you I'd trial a pair of Rel t's and if they don't fit your needs only then move in another direction.

So, in my case these Rel’s exactly what I was looking for, just a bit more reach in lowest freq, and most impressively, the added sound stage ambience, greater recording venue information adds to an already impressive illusion of performers in room that horn speakers do like no other.

as @sns  states so well -- this is why we do this... it ain’t just about deep bass extension per se (and why stereo subs matter)

Thanks again, all. Although I realize that we’re talking about a relatively modest purchase here,I still feel lucky to be considering the options. I don’t need any convincing about pairing subs; that’s my plan. And I’m going to buy new, with the option to return, though I can see the Rythmik "Christmas" F12 for sale out here. I’ve learned the hard way that it’s important for me to try before committing.

@mijostyn , I’ll keep looking over the MiniDSP info. You may know the old Groucho Marx line from Duck Soup: "Clear? Why, a four year old child could understand this report!" Then as an aside: "run out and find me a four year old child. I can’t make head or tail of it." I feel that way with much so-called "technology." I get brain fog trying to understand tech-speak. Also, I guess I’ve always been rather old-school about audio: less is more.

I know that I’m hijacking my own thread but I’ll keep going, with a simple question. I’m curious to learn more about dsp, room eq, and bass management with a pair of subs. (I fooled around with Roon DSP but didn’t get very far.) I have a Bryston streamer and Bryston dac; they may not be the last word in electronics but they work just fine for me. I’ve been using a small green computer Sonictransporter, which also works fine for me. I mostly stream these days. Can you recommend a miniDSP product that would do what I want (room eq + subwoofer management/crossovers) without requiring me to swap out my dac, music player, or streaming computer? It looks to me like both the FLEX and the SHD or SHD STUDIO would be partly redundant and/or require me to rethink the sources in my system. Maybe the DDRC24 (with dac?) or DDRC22D? To be clear, I’m not asking for a tutorial, just a sign-post to direct me to the right product. From there, I can make my way. (I also can see that REL doesn’t play easily with miniDSP unless one foregoes the high-level cable connection. That is, it doesn’t look easy to control the speakers and subs independently with that high-level connection.) Again, at this point I'm just curious, so there's no need for long explanations. THANK YOU!

Edit: @jjss49 -- I just saw your post. I get it. I hear you. I’m with you! And ... I’m on it!

@jeenam 

The SHD and SHD studio come with a UMIK 1, but as an upgrade they offer UMIK 2 which is highly recommended. Your corrections can be no better than your measurements.

@northman 

Can you follow the directions on a can opener?