Little help with REL subwoofers, please?

@northman I have yet to read on any forum where a Rythmik owner switched back to Rel. Rel makes great subs, and they are the reason I insist on having a sub with whatever system I’m using. Their use of speaker-level inputs to match the tone and voice of the source amplifier that is powering speakers makes perfect sense. Using the line input with subs does not allow for tone matching to the source amp. You’re left with whatever flavor the sub amp provides. For integration purposes, obviously not ideal.

My take on Rel now is that they’ve invested far too much in the ’lipstick and makeup’ without any appreciable increase in performance to justify their price increases. Rel had always priced their subs a bit high, but it’s gotten out of hand.

Rythmik on the other hand continues to focus on building great subs. The cabinets are plane jane, but last I checked the reason one buys a subwoofer is for sound, not looks. Most of the time people simply stuff their sub in the corner and essentially out of sight and out of mind.

Put simply, if Rythmik wasn’t around I’d still be buying Rel subs. But seriously, reach out to the owner of Rythmik and inquire about their subs. There are a number of F12/F12G subs available for sale on various classified sites such as Audiogon right now because people bought themselves new toys for the holidays and are unloading their used gear. If you decide to purchase new, I believe they have a 30 day return policy, minus shipping costs of course.

Edit: Forgot to mention I’ve been using the Rythmik F12 with Ascend Towers with the RAAL ribbon tweeters. The F12 is lightning fast and has no problem keeping up with the RAAL ribbons. The only subs I’d consider using would be made by JL Audio, Rythmik, and Rel, in that order. I remember about a decade back people were hyping up the Martin Logan subs so I purchased one (can’t recall which - it had a silver bass driver). I hooked it up and to my horror the first thought that came to mind was "This subwoofer is slow and sounds awful". The point is the majority of folks have no idea what a properly integrated subwoofer actually sounds like. Just look at the legions of people who swear by SVS or Hsu. You will NEVER find an SVS or Hsu sub in a professional mastering studio, but you will find there are quite a few that use Rythmik.

@northman 

As I mentioned previously, I'm not seeking a sub that brings attention to itself, have had that in previous subs, my take is that type of sub is for home theater setups or bass heads. I want my subs to be invisible, simply an extension of my main speakers, so far this is exactly what the two Rel T9x are delivering. Totally seamless bass delivery is what I'm getting, couldn't be happier at this point. Right now I have the T9x crossover at aprox. 43hz with volume at 3 clicks (monoblock setup so volume aprox. double stereo amp), initial setup was aprox. 46hz, 3 clicks, this with modified Klipschorns. Room is 13'W x 30'L, absolutely no bass boom, and more importantly bass keeps up with Klipschorn bass. I've previously owned big subs, 15" to 18" woofers with and without dsp, while the Rel's don't reach down as deep as prior subs, and may not be as impressive with certain kinds of music, lets say EDM (electronic dance music), they outperform those subs in the ability to play fast, tuneful, and most importantly coherently with my main speakers. The Rel philosophy is maximizing coherency with main speakers, this is by far the most important single aspect I desire in subs, these Rel's are delivering thus far. I am using power cords specifically chosen for max transparency, speed, Oyaide R1 AC receptacle on same dedicated circuit as monoblocks, I will be experimenting with diy high level wire, already have some tin plated Duelund copper wire I need to hook up to Speakon connector, may try some Mundorf silver/gold wire in future, dc cables I made are awesome with this wire. Experimenting with PC's and high level cabling is worthwhile according to many Rel users.

My suggestion would be to try a pair of the X series, if you like Rel philosophy and sound qualities stick with them. I thought about the S series vs X, but they seem more oriented towards dual use as home theater and music system subs. I'd only add, the second Rel sub is a necessity for me, experimenting with running a single results in incoherent or un-centered sound stage, (monoblocks require the second for both channel bass). Adding the second also both speeds up and fills out bass.]

Thank you all--really. I value this site for the experience and knowledge of the community but sometimes there's too much talking and not enough listening. However, each of you in this thread has been thoughtful, insightful, and very helpful. Rather than feel overwhelmed, I am left with the conviction that there are a number of viable paths and workable options--even for the conundrum of Maggies + subwoofers.

@mijostyn -- thank you. I've spent a couple hours now learning about dsp, with particular attention to MiniDSP. "Idiot proof" is apparently what I need. I'm definitely interested. I will say that the explanations get very technical, very fast. 

@jeenam -- I hear you on Rythmik, and the appreciation/criticism of REL. I've read both many times, and I know that Rythmik has a stellar reputation out here. I'm going to look into them more, definitely. Thank you.

@sns -- yes, certainly, 95% of the time that philosophy is just exactly what I want. My experience with subwoofers is very limited but I'm inclined toward a pair as well. I know that the T/9X isn't really big in the world of subs, but I still wonder if a pair of them would be too much in my small room. (Also ... small budget.) For what it's worth, REL recommends the T/9 (single or double) with the 1.7is, the S series for the bigger Maggies. 

I've been smiling about @jjss49 's suggestion to get the T/7s and "be done." I know he's right, at least in the short term. But part of me wants to let this percolate a bit, try a few subs, bang my head against the DSP wall, and enjoy the ride a bit longer....

Again, thank you all!

Good subwoofers that have been properly set up will never call attention to themselves. The point of purchasing JL/Rythmik/Rel is they disappear and make it seem as though speakers simply have proper low end fullness and extension.

Please let us know your thoughts once you’ve decided on and configured whichever sub you do end up purchasing. The last Rel I had was the T7. It was paired with PMC OB1 speakers and it sounded fantastic and integrated seamlessly with plenty of kick/punch for my tastes. Drum n Bass, techno and house are among the genres I listen to so you best believe I’m critical and demanding when it comes to subsonic performance. Drum n Bass producers tend to know a thing or two about bass ;)

to my earlier comments i would add, or should i say, re-emphasize:... to me, for maggie 1.7i (or up) owners, dual subs are a must if one intends on extracting the best musical qualities these truly wonderful speakers can produce

so 2x t7’s >> 1x t9 or 1x s510 as an example