Table,cartridge,phono...where to put most of my money?


  Let me start by saying im a digital guy,to be specific a CD/SACD guy.Years ago I ventured back into vinyl only to be totally disappointed in my efforts.I wanted to hear the records I had been hauling around the country every time i relocated.I  bought a Linn LP12 and had  all the upgrades done.I never could get it sounding good,even paid to have it setup by a so called expert...Fast forward ,I tried again maybe 6 years ago.Bought a VPI super scout with a couple different phono stages(dont recall what they were)..About the same outcome,was ok but for all the fuss,time,cost I felt another unsuccessful attempt..A few weeks ago i bought at an auction a direct drive Pioneer table from the 70s for a couple hundred.It was paired with a decent cartridge.I bought a used phone amp off ebay and off and rolling i went.Its no where near my digital side across the board and i didnt expect it to be but its got me wanting more....Long story short,I have a budget of 5k/6k for everything..table,cartridge and phone amp..Yes i understand everything is important but where would you put the bulk of the budget...and what would you buy with the limited info given,,Thanks

missioncoonery

I'm in the stick with digital camp. I am of that generation that came up with vinyl and tape. Digital sounds a little harsh to me, yet I have CD's out the ying yang. I do stream a little; mostly to audition music I would like to own. I wonder sometimes if the order of enjoyment ascends or descends from historian to collector to archivist to aficionado to preservationist to ........perfectionist.

My only advise to you is to please YOURSELF. Analog playback just may not be your bowl of grits. Both digital and analogue have limitations, strengths and weaknesses that appeal to different appetites, nothing will satisfy every desire, so satisfy yours. I won't judge..... promise.      :)

We are all guessing for at least two reasons. You said you couldn’t get your turntables to sound good. What exactly was missing? Detail and clarity I’m guessing compared to your digital sources? Something else? If my guess is right, a couple of thoughts. 

Old vinyl can involve poor pressings or accumulated grit that only an ultrasonic cleaner can remove. To test this go out and buy a really good recent pressing of an album, preferably not rock with its amplified instruments which often add their own distortion and noise. I bought a recent Columbia Legacy pressing of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. The difference between it and my old pressing was revelatory. Clearer, more detailed than the old vinyl yet more full bodied and realistic than my streamed high res or my cd versions. 
 

My second thought concerns equipment matching. Again I’m guessing since I have not listened to your Pass/Dynaudio amp/speakers together, much less in your room. To my knowledge your gear tends toward the slightly warmer side as others have noted. Digital sources tend to be on the “cooler”, detailed, less full bodied side. So my guess would be to go with a cartridge that is highly detailed, a moving coil like a Sumiko starling or a Lyra Delos, both just under $2k.  Find a knowledgeable dealer that sells both and others if at all possible. Listen on his setup, even if different from yours and bring a new, high quality pressing of a record you like and know well. If you like what you hear ask to bring home whatever TT/cartridge, phono stage combo you auditioned and have the dealer suggest what he views as the best for your budget, music tastes and preferred sound characteristics. If you find a cartridge you like, it may or may not be a good fit for your current turntable and arm. You can stay within or close to your budgets with tt’s from Mofi, Clearaudio and Rega, each of which have somewhat different house sounds, with the Rega being the most detailed to my ears in the $1500-$2000k price range of these three widely available brands. One of the tt manufacturer’s own cartridges might be a good fit and when purchased together could save you a few hundred dollars, but I went with a cartridge not of the same brand as the tt and found it a better fit for my tastes.

Finally, if my guess about detail being lacking in your past experience, within your budget I’d recommend a solid state phono stage. Others have made some good suggestions, including the Musical Surroundings Nova and Sutherland units, to name two I’ve heard.

We’re all guessing here on Audiogon. There is simply no true substitute for auditioning gear, especially if you can do it in your listening room with your gear. 
 

good luck!

For what it’s worth, I have the following, with guesstimated retail purchase price as new when in today’s dollars:

- table: VPI HW MK IV with SAM : $ 4,200

- arm: Sumiko MMT : $1,100

- cartridge: Koetsu Onyx : $10,000

To make $s go much further, I would buy second hand of each.

@jasonbourne71 Too each their own, but on my system I can hear the difference between an AAA vinyl, and a DDA/ADA vinyl, the former being superior in depth, richness and detail, so I am not with you on digital being the superior format.

@sameyers1 My experience is different. I find that well cared for, original pressings from the 1950s-1980s (I have thousands) almost always sound better than reissues or remastered reissues, which may be one reason why NM original presses get higher $s at auction.

Pindac, where on earth can one find a functioning DP80 for $400? If such a bargain exists, I’ll buy them all, and so too should anyone else. In a proper plinth, I’d put the DP80 up against any TT under $5000.

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