Cables that measure the same but (seem?) to sound different


I have been having an extended dialogue with a certain objectivist who continues to insist to me that if two wires measure the same, in a stable acoustic environment, they must sound the same.

In response, I have told him that while I am not an engineer or in audio, I have heard differences in wires while keeping the acoustic environment static. I have told him that Robert Harley, podcasters, YouTuber's such as Tarun, Duncan Hunter and Darren Myers, Hans Beekhuyzen, Paul McGowan have all testified to extensive listening experiments where differences were palpable. My interlocutor has said that either it is the placebo effect, they're shilling for gear or clicks, or they're just deluded.

I've also pointed out that to understand listening experience, we need more than a few measurement; we also need to understand the physiology and psychological of perceptual experience, as well as the interpretation involved. Until those elements are well understood, we cannot even know what, exactly, to measure for. I've also pointed out that for this many people to be shills or delusionaries is a remote chance at best.

QUESTION: Who would you name as among the most learned people in audio, psychoacoustics, engineering, and psychology who argue for the real differences made by interconnects, etc.?
128x128hilde45
I hesitate to wander into this treacherous country again but here goes.  Measurements, e.g., resistance, inductance, capacitance, are, these days, easily made , recorded and compared but are gross and crude compared to the kinds of phenomena which may be discerned by the human ear and brain such as, say, timbre.  The simple measurements aren’t going to help us predict how a device (cable) will contribute to SQ.  So the only practical way I can think of in measuring the higher phenomena for comparison purposes is to recruit panels of experienced observers (listeners/audiophiles).  Ideally, if possible, observers would be blind and a placebo control could be utilized if a certain device (cheap cable?) could be agreed upon as the placebo type.  Hasn’t this kind of evaluation been done before in audio?
If you believe in science(and I do) then if two items measure the same, they are the same. But that assumes you have measured everything that matters. And you don't know if some factor is missing from your measurements until you discover all the measurements. We usually discover new measurements when our observations are no longer predictable by our current measurements.
@denverfred,

Exactomundo 😎
I just finished rereading Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. 
This is not to say that people who like particular cable more than another or deluded.
From OP:

     “if two wires measure the same, in a stable acoustic environment, they must sound the same.”

I do not have an answer to OP’s specific question about which specific  “learned people” in the field may have opinions about interconnects and wires.

I would like to broaden the discussion a bit to include some additional thoughts about measurements, tests and the equipment and persons that determine whether or not differences are heard.

OP does not specify what is being measured, how it is measured, what tools are used to capture the measurement or what the conditions for the test are.  We have precious little to go on for a discussion. 
Assume the stated stable acoustic environment and several devices under test.   We need calibrated test equipment.  Both electronic and human.  Obtaining calibrated test electronics and software is relatively simple.    Choose a test microphone and associated acoustic test software and interface.  Calibrating a human to be a test instrument comes with many unknowns and variables. 
Perhaps a possible test of human hearing acuity and accuracy vs electronic test equipment would be in order.   Play back whatever test signals and program material desired.  Have the listener evaluate and note their impressions.  Capture measurements with the test equipment at the same time. Alter the test signals and program material in a known way.  Repeat the playback and capture measurements and the human impressions of the test signals and program material.  Continue this for many variations of the test signals and program material.  Alterations in the signals can be anything, overall level, frequency response, distortions, latency changes between different frequency bands, pick your alteration and  test it.

This  testing regimen will allow easy evaluation of both the electronic test equipments accuracy and a humans ability to evaluate changes.  
It would be interesting to see what if any differences there are between the electronic tests and a humans impression  of the test signals and program material original test and the altered signal tests.

Once we have a very good understanding of how electronic test equipment and human evaluations of tests correlate only then should we move on to actually testing those different wires and interconnects.


Check out the forum thread on  "Audio Engineering Society and cables" from June. There is discussion of peer-reviewed, published research demonstrating that cables that have an identical frequency response can still sound different and can be perceived as sounding significantly different under blinded listening conditions - even by untrained listeners.