Cables that measure the same but (seem?) to sound different


I have been having an extended dialogue with a certain objectivist who continues to insist to me that if two wires measure the same, in a stable acoustic environment, they must sound the same.

In response, I have told him that while I am not an engineer or in audio, I have heard differences in wires while keeping the acoustic environment static. I have told him that Robert Harley, podcasters, YouTuber's such as Tarun, Duncan Hunter and Darren Myers, Hans Beekhuyzen, Paul McGowan have all testified to extensive listening experiments where differences were palpable. My interlocutor has said that either it is the placebo effect, they're shilling for gear or clicks, or they're just deluded.

I've also pointed out that to understand listening experience, we need more than a few measurement; we also need to understand the physiology and psychological of perceptual experience, as well as the interpretation involved. Until those elements are well understood, we cannot even know what, exactly, to measure for. I've also pointed out that for this many people to be shills or delusionaries is a remote chance at best.

QUESTION: Who would you name as among the most learned people in audio, psychoacoustics, engineering, and psychology who argue for the real differences made by interconnects, etc.?
hilde45

Showing 6 responses by avitacom

I hesitate to wander into this treacherous country again but here goes.  Measurements, e.g., resistance, inductance, capacitance, are, these days, easily made , recorded and compared but are gross and crude compared to the kinds of phenomena which may be discerned by the human ear and brain such as, say, timbre.  The simple measurements aren’t going to help us predict how a device (cable) will contribute to SQ.  So the only practical way I can think of in measuring the higher phenomena for comparison purposes is to recruit panels of experienced observers (listeners/audiophiles).  Ideally, if possible, observers would be blind and a placebo control could be utilized if a certain device (cheap cable?) could be agreed upon as the placebo type.  Hasn’t this kind of evaluation been done before in audio?
djones51, Yes, we’ve been discussing listening to recorded music, e.g., listening to vinyl through a stereo.
djones51, your point is well taken.  I was searching for a musical quality which could be discerned by listeners but not possibly measured by existing guages.  “Warmth,” or “brightness,” would have been a better choice than timber.  I believe that most of us would agree that state-of-the art instrumentation is insufficient to describe, wholly, the glorious, human experience of music.
Sniff, I have the itmost respect for your “ass backwards” judgement concerning your personal listening experience.  In my little listening universe, however, choosing recordings based to some extent on  their compatibility with my system is perfectly OK and I have certainly been accused of listening to the equipment.  I’ve been called worse.
My dear wife, unlike me, is an accomplished musician and that is one of the traits which attracted me to her long ago.  She is perfectly satsfied with her “downstairs” system of old JVC receiver, Sony turntable and old Meadowlark bookshelf speakers.  BTW, I’ve read that musicians tend to invest minimally in audio.
Forgive me for the digression.
Allow me to commend and support the observations made by the “user,” as quoted by hilde45.
In medical school, I was trained that the way to evaluate the effectiveness or relative strength of a device, a drug, a method, etc. is by conducting a placebo controlled double blind study.  In our area of interest, the data for such a study would be generated by panels of experienced listeners (audiophiles).  I suspect that manufacturers of tweaks, like cables, will not conduct or publish such  tests because of fear of the effects of the results on sales.
In the absence of data, as I have described it previously, a lot of verbiage is generated.
sdl4 has posted real, meaningful, data, above, supporting the superiority of Straight Wire Virtuoso Cable, at least over Monster Cable. Now we’re getting somewhere!