Cartridge ISOLATION; What Say You?


another good read, it does go against my 'instinct' of a rock solid cartridge/arm connection. (non-removable headshell) 

Who thinks what?
Who tried what?

https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/isolator_e.html

btw, has anyone tried a Len Gregory cartridge (with or without the isolator)?

another comment in the article: reviewer mentioned a layer of isolation under the tonearm base (he tried blu-tac). Also against my 'instinct'.
elliottbnewcombjr
Vibration dissipation? The cartridge body should not vibrate at all. Any vibration of the cartridge body is distortion. The best way to keep a cartridge from vibrating is to fix it firmly to a very rigid structure with enough mass to get the resonance point of the cartridges suspension down to 10 Hz. Above 10 Hz the system is rigid. Below 10 Hz the tonearm is free to move. Adding another suspension between the cartridge and tonearm adds another resonance point which is going to be much higher than 10 Hz and it will not isolate the cartridge from anything occurring below that resonance point. It may well be within the audio band which will cause ringing. I can not imagine any circumstance where this would be beneficial. Nobody I know of makes a tonearm that bad. 
^^This.
If the cartridge is moving with the stylus it will have less output. But it isn't; its mass and that of the arm is magnitudes higher than the stylus and cantilever. At any given instant the arm is relatively still so in fact the stylus is moving in the groove with respect to the cartridge body.

The more the system deviates from this simple fact the more coloration it will have. Decouple the cartridge from the arm, even if that decoupling provides some damping, and you increase coloration. If you want to damp the arm the place to put that is probably on the top side of the headshell so while the cartridge is properly coupled to the arm, any excess vibration (which really shouldn't be there in theory; the better the arm the more it approaches this ideal) can be damped.

I recommend for anyone engaging in this sort of stuff if you really want to know what's going on, study the engineering of turntables, arms and cartridges and then build one that works. That is what I did; its how I can state with absolute certainty that the best turntable and pickup will have the platter rigidly coupled to the base of the arm and neither the bearings of the platter or arm will have any slop. Further, the plinth will be dead and massive so it can resist airborne vibration. The rigidity is there so if there is vibration transmitted to the turntable system from its platform or the like the pickup will be unable to transduce it. And finally of course the tonearm is also rigid and dead (arm tube is damped) so the cartridge, which is rigidly coupled to the arm, can do its job.


If you deviate from this ideal there will be coloration plain and simple no ifs and or buts.


Some years back a friend of mine developed the Analog Survival Kit which was sold by Sumiko. It was basically a polymer wrap for the arm tube that allowed you to damp the arm tube of vibration. It worked because it did not interfere with the coupling between the arm and cartridge. You did have to be careful about effective mass and resulting mechanical resonance though. 


One of the most challenging issues I had to face as a manufacturer was how to establish a reference. What was I hearing when I played any recording? How much of the coloration in my system was influencing what I thought I was hearing? That was tricky and the only way I could figure my way out of it was thru professional recording equipment, which I had to assume was competent since it made the recordings we listen to. So we got some mics and I had a musician play in front of them and we compared what we heard to the mic feed in the stereo. This taught us very quickly what was going on. Since I've been running a recording studio since the 1970s (Steve Tibbetts recorded 'Yr' in my first one) I've had access to master tapes which I've often used for reference.


My point here is you have to know what you are hearing. If there are colorations in your system of which you are unaware, its very common to introduce other colorations that might seem as if you are approaching a more neutral presentation. But IME synergies don't work; you're far better off if each bit of your system stands on its own merits and does not need the brightness or darkness of another component in order to work.



Mijostyn  I want  to get a degree in vibration  from the school you went to.  To be able to know proofs without testing or research  could save a person alot of time.  Miller carbon at  least  brings up the many variables , known and unknown  , which are in play.  

You need to talk to Lewm and / or read  reviews on the RS lab tonearm.  It breaks your wild quesses to dead.  Is it the best?  Who knows which cart system etc...  

You might want to read tomic 601 posts.  He refers to alot of the issues on this forum.  Hasty generalization  is one of them.  You will have to know what that means, as  he defines it quite  eloquently.   He also brings up,  know your guru's  taste  in music reproduction.  My own research  has shown me most people  have not had enough exposure  and or interest  in what real music  sound like to even begin to evaluate  a system.  You can have  100 degrees  in engineering,  mechanics , physics  and be tone deaf.  The Ad copy  guys can write anything.  The engineers can tell the ad copy guys whatever.

So we are  back to try the gizmo or make your own.  Then you  will know first hand if you like it or not.  Then you will know ,in your system,  if it get you closer  to what YOU want.  So even if that is not  what real music sounds like who cares.  If it makes you happy  thats all that matters.
Ralph, Have you had any hands-on experience with the Rega P10?  I am no Rega fanboy, but I find the approach taken in their flagship TT to be very interesting:  Super low mass plinth made of materials that are not likely to store energy efficiently and of low enough mass also to further reduce energy storage, but with a rigid beam connecting the base of the tonearm mount to the bearing assembly.  I'd like to hear it.
@tomwh thx. I do rebel against Van Morrison; No Guru, No Method, No Teacher. I do have a sensei. Every now and then i snatch the pebble….

i don’t think there is anything wrong with goal seeking around pleasure - my belief is the SET camp is hopelessly colored yet incredibly addictive audio tone color crack…. 

I think Ralph makes a very excellent, nuanced and hyper esoteric and yes ultimately expensive point. A steady diet of acoustic live music recorded w minimal devices in the chain in natural reverberant space while witnessing the event becomes the reference and a tool for discernment…

as close as many will get and Of note is Water Lilly, Vandersteen ( 2 discs ), any number of the D2D labels, Opus3, Wilson Audiophile, and Lederman : Direct Grace. 

This allows discernment and the ability to  hear where in the chain it all goes to @#$&*&$#@.

hard to do right ? Maybe..

I do plan a Cellist at next listening party. I have a Zoom6 mini recorder….. what will we hear ? i also have a cold cathode preamp on the way w variable bias ( thd ), so same listening panel can vote on the distortion flavor profile they like….

fun