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LAMM M1.2 - Feedback - Advice - Please - anyone heard these?

Folks - anyone that can share anything about LAMM or specifically the M1.2 would be greatly appreciated. 
Looking for thoughts on these or LAMM in general. I have never owner this brand and want some advise / feedback and to learn more from actual people / other members.
To provide this you

DON’T NEED TO READ ANY FUTHER.

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If you want to know why and what my thinking then please read on.

Thanks so much for anything you can share. 
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So here’s what I am up against. 
I want / need that tube goodness in my sound but must also have that SS grip, bass control, transparency and image precision.


Have been looking and trying for the right amp and/or Pre combo mix.
SS alone doesn’t get me there - need that tubeness that only tubes can offer but I only want a little or just enough of that tube goodness.

What I also need just as much or even more is that SS transparency and their hold and tightness and precision. My speakers are not hard to drive but still tube amps are too loose - too wide and soft. Not enough specificity and SS is missing something as well. That natural, real closeness only tubes offer. I need the right blend. 
If I was to guess the sound would be say 83% SS and 17% tubes. Transparency, grip, precision and control is so important to me but then bathed in just the right amount of enough tubeness to just hit the nail right on the head. Yes it’s a tough and picky ask. 

The tube sounding SS gear Pass and Soulution doesn’t get me there. 
SS amps and Tube preamp have not got me there. Each time I tried a different combo I ended up liking my DAC direct over the tube preamp and that of course was not getting me. 
My speakers are pretty easy to drive Focal Sopra 2. I love these. They are bright, tight and raw. Their brightness needs to be tamed with a musical and warmish sounding source and warmish sounding sounding amp/Pre combo. 
My source is a Bricasti M1SE DAC / built in Roon End Point Ethernet Streamer and Preamp all in one. I love the Sopra 2 because they act like monitors with bass. They have the transparency and precision like a monitor. I liked better then Sopra 3 that is more like an excellent floorstander then imitating a monitor with bass. I like Sopra 2 better then my former Magico S5 MKII I had before also. I’ve learned over time what I like and what is most important to me. Extension, speed, transparency, image and sound precision and I don’t need all world bass slam but enough decent bass to do the music justice. Monitor can’t do this without subs but I also need coherence which is so important to the precision and transparency. That is why subs don’t work for me and Sopra 3 or S5 MKII didn’t work also. The Sopra 2 is a monitor lovers dream with monitor like everything but better dynamics and bass but I regress.  With all of this said I’m thinking maybe this LAMM M1.2 can pull off what I’m hoping for and if anyone has any info or similar situation would love some advise, feedback or comments. 
Thanks for the time and help !!!!! 
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xfsmithjack
ddafoe
238 posts
 
@fsmithjack, instead of trying to get the perfect tube/ss match between preamp and amp, have you considered trying a different DAC?   It might be easier to tweak your source such that you can be happy with a cheaper or more readily available pre/amp or integrated.   There are some good choices in DACs that might give you the sound you are missing.

I've never heard the M1SE but purchased a Bricasti M3 last year (came new with the MDX upgrade) and although I liked it I never fell hard for it and ultimately replaced it with an R2R NOS DAC that in my opinion (and system) offers a much fuller, meatier, and musical presentation than the M3 did for me.    So based on your Focals and tastes, maybe a source change would give you that extra magic you are looking for...

I had the gen 1 Magico S series before selling them; my current DAC for my tastes would match much better with that beryllium tweeter than my M3 would have.  I would likely be looking for a little tube magic as well if I still had the Magico and M3.

Good luck with your search...
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,625 posts
 
I want / need that tube goodness in my sound but must also have that SS grip, bass control, transparency and image precision.
The Lamm IMO/IME has a classic solid state sound in that its bright and has a touch of solid state harshness. If your speakers are bright (I've not heard them) then I would expect the combo to drive me out of the room. I've not owned the Lamm but a friend of mine in town had them so I've heard them many times.


The Focal website isn't all that great so its a bit tricky sorting out the speaker, but it appears that while they claim '8 ohms' the woofer array is actually 4 ohms. This type of speaker isn't friendly to tube amplifiers! To run a tube amp you would need to use the 4 ohm tap which puts the amp at a disadvantage. So you're going to have to find something solid state. I get why you want that tube input stage of the Lamm- maybe that would tone things down a bit....

But here's what is going on. The Lamm, like most solid state amps, uses feedback, but in insufficient amount so the distortion generated by the feedback itself causes the amp to sound bight and harsh. You need an amp that can behave as a voltage source though, so IMO you'll need an amp with a lot more feedback, enough so that the amp can clean up the distortion caused by its feedback. This value tends to be north of 35dB (or maybe 40dB). That's a lot of feedback and there are not that many traditional solid state designs where that's going on. But two are the Benchmark and the Soulution (the latter of which you've expressed a dislike). But if you want to know why these amps will sound smoother than the Lamm its because they have so much more feedback. Quite literally, they are sounding more 'tube like' because they are lower distortion. (And in particular the higher ordered harmonics; the ear is keenly sensitive to these because it uses them to sense sound pressure, and the ear has a range over 120dB! The ear assigns a tonality to all forms of distortion; the higher orders are heard as 'brightness' and 'harshness' despite the frequency response being perfectly flat.)


Your other option is to find a class D amp that you like. Class D amps usually have a very low output impedance so will drive this speaker well. There are very big sonic differences between class D amps, so just because you've heard one does not mean you've heard them all. The differences between them are as profound as they are for any other kind of amp, like tube amps or transistor amps. But the things that cause distortion in class D amps tend to result in lower ordered harmonic distortion rather than higher ordered (as in traditional solid state) so what you're looking for is one that sounds smooth but has the impact you're looking for in the bass at the same time. They do exist.
karmapolice's avatar
karmapolice
254 posts
 
I lack any expertise but to my ears the lamm does not sound bright or harsh and their sin is a bit of darkness.....if you like ypsilon you will like dart (fremer likes both btw)......there is a dart integrated also avail which if you use phono has a nice phono section......the dart integrated or amp is very versatile and transparent and yet just sounds soulful too...the lamm is less versatile but is wonderful in the right room with the right associated equipment and with the right types of music.......

if you cannot find the ypsilon used I would in the meantime get the dart if you can negotiate down the price a bit especially and then if the ypsilon comes available again you can decide then how happy you are with the dart....the lamm could be bought now too but will take more effort to dial in...
inna
7,132 posts
 
Cannot say anything about driving Focals with Lamm, Lamm/Kharma is a great match and Focal sounds great with both VAC and Allnic. 
Ralph keeps advertising and making misleading claims.
In addition to tubes, Focals sound very well with Soulution and D'Agostino. DarT should be fine too.
fsmithjack's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
fsmithjack OP
712 posts
 
Did not know LAMM was traditional SS sounding amp. From what others have said it’s a nice warm and transparent amp. I always though no feedback was better. Ypsilon is a hybrid - class a with no global feedback. I though this combo would be ideal but if Lamm is a bright amp I won’t want it. It tough - I need a hybrid I think. Again - if I guessed I would prefer 83% SS and 17% tubenes. Just enough but not too little either? Dam it’s tough. Digging this Ypsilon out of Europe is not going real easy either. 
Anyone have an idea what duty tax is importing a second hand item in from the EU to US? Cant get a straight answer? 
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