After an extended period with the Sophia Baby on Omens I finally determined the loudness did not have enough weight which I knew the Omens should support. Limited dynamic range might be another way to say it. The clarity was there, but a lot of the emotion was lost.
I moved the tubes to driving a mini-Lore set (omg - the Sophia extracts more weight and clarity out of the 8-inch mini-Lores than the 10-inch Omens) and relegated the Krell integrated to Omens duty. Available headroom brought the Omens closer to their ultimate capability. I have a hard time deciding whether I prefer the smaller room, smaller driver with tubes or the larger room, larger driver with ss. Very similar presentations due to the common wideband design.
Listening to Rene Marie's "Experiment in Truth" through the Krell/Omen combo - after seeing her club performance on Monday this week - the recorded tunes do impart a lot of the likeness of "being there". |
It took me about a month to configure my Dennis Had Inspire SE amp (KT-150 w/ ~12 wpc) to sound 'right' with the Zu Omens. The bass was really woolly as supplied, and there was just no control in the lower registers - and seemingly very little power. For speakers with a sensitivity of 97 dB/W I was expecting to rattle the windows with 12 wpc.
After a few exchanges with Dennis via email, it became apparent that I needed to change the output taps from the transformer to a different impedance winding. This did require removing the bottom cover and resoldering a couple leads. I'm no stranger to a soldering iron, so this took all of about 2 minutes even for a relative novice. Since then, it's been a different world altogether. The power is thunderous and the bass is deep and solid. I just wanted to post this in case anyone ever ran into this down the road. With a 12 ohm speaker you need to change the output tap (or have Dennis do it to start with) to the high impedance tap for best results. He called the other tap the 9-16 ohm tap. |
how would a nad 356 amp be with these omens |
Excellent choices for the Omens that I have enjoyed ( and none are bright at all as I am sensitive to the brightness) include:
1. Miniwatt EL84
2. Melody I2A3
3. Shuguang 300b from Grant Fidelity
4. First Watt F3 ( I have a Rawson clone and love it)
5. Virtue audio Sensation
I have a very bright room.....and I found that placement and the DAC choice where also very important for toning down the highs.....and now my brightness is non existent ( I use a Tranquility DAC).
Hope this helps. |
Drift,
There is a long thread on audiocircle you may want to check out wherein a lot of owners chime in on what they are using to drive their Omens with. Some great information there--its in the 'cheap and cheerful' section.
The best solid state I've experienced with my Soul Superflys is a Redgum RGi120 integrated which I suspect would sound fantastic on the Omens. very fast, transparant and super musical. |
Drift, the differance will be a huge one for the pos.
Choose your tube amp wisely. There is a lot of info here on AG about tube amps. Spend some hours reading before you make your decision.
I wish you the best in luck.
John |
I've had my omens for 5 months or so ... and I do like them a lot.. a bit on the bright side but then agaim the room they are in is fairly large with high ceilings. I run them through an Audio Refinement Pre-2DSP with a Multi 3 amp (125WPC). I'm considering trying the tube route to see if I can warm up the sound a tad ... although if the difference it not HUGE, I more than likely will stick with my current setup. |
Zman
Good luck with your new speakers I'm sure they will be very pleasing.I'm not familiar with the Lore's I'll have to give them a listen soon. The more gear I listen to less seems like more, taking the crossovers out of the design just seems to make more sense, and the simpler Class A circuits that seem to becoming more popular really sound amazing i.e. Nelson Pass's First Watt stuff is just to good. Thanks for the info on the room treatment I will give it a try. |
Absolutely, 20 watts will be more than enough. |
So if I wanted to go the tube route, I could get a pair of Omens and drive them easily with a small 20 watt or so tube integrated without strain? My elite receiver has 110 watts per channel. |
I picked up a pair of Tekton Design Lore's. I'm very pleased with them so far.
As far as the room treatments, one of my freinds has an air/heat business and I got them through him. The stuffs call Duct Board. The black kind like I use is a mold treated duct board. After a few hurricanes (Florida) the Gov. made use use a mold treated duct board and it just so happens to be black. So I cut them to legth and spay painted the edges to match the rest and the look pretty good and do a great job for room treatments.
I have $150 in the whole room. Thats bass traps too. But I got everything at cost. |
Zmanastronomy
Have you tried a pair of the Zu's yet? You can't bet the deal Zu offers for trying their speakers, remember you can buy the Omens cheaper from Music Direct in Chicago than from Zu and with the same return policy in place. The answer to your question...which speakers have I compared them to well I'm "Old School" I like the Klipsch Heresy's and La Scala's. Lately I've been using a Class A solid state amp, but I've also got a VTL ST85 that really sounds nice with the Zu's. As for a pre I usually use a Placette passive. By the way the room treatment looks pretty cool what exactly is that product, and was it easy to find? |
Thank you Morganc.
Sounds like a new concideration.
I haven't thought of the Defs.
Cheers |
Hi Zman. I had a friend come over who sent his Superflys back for a refund and he preferred my Omen Defs. I did not do a comparison myself nor have I heard the Omens, but he did prefer them and I am loving mine. Having said that, I was using a bett amp, a larger room, and a better DAC than he was so I am not sure which was the key to the improvement that he noted. He stated that the soundstage was larger, more dynamic, more live sounding (I forgot which audiophile term to use there:)).
Having said that, with the return policy, you don't have much to lose and when I called Zu to ask the same question that you are asking, they just told me to order both and they would take back the loser......I decided against that and am content with the Omens. |
>>01-09-11: Cwazz
"Can we get back to the original question ,,,and has any bought the Omens yet and have a review of them?"<<
I bought the Omens and have probably less than 100 hours on them, so too soon to do an in-depth review.
I drive them with a 2A3 SET in a 12' x 13' room, and I will say that so far I really like them. Definately keepers @ $1,000. I also got the Zu Mission cables during the Christmas blowout sale and they helped quite a bit.
In this room with this amp I have had Klipschorns (too big for the room I'm afraid) and Tekton Katz Meow (last year's model). The Omens and Katz give a different presentation, I could easily live with either, both work very well with SET. The Omens sound bigger, more dynamic. The Katz are smoother, probably a little more holographic. I have yet to side-by-side them, but will soon. I think I'll end up determining that each does some things and some music better than the other. |
Spainthecat,
Can you give referance to other speakers you can compare the Omens to.
I'm looking at the Superfly, but if these are 90% there, I may concider them and pocket the yen.
Thank you. John |
I don't care what amp you use the Omen's are excellent speakers.They arrived the end of November I broke them in with a tubes and ran them all day everyday for 5 weeks then switched over to a Musical Fidelity A-5 proving that there's nothing like headroom. Yes these speakers play loud or soft. I might consider and upgrade to the Super Fly or Omen Def if someone can prove to me that it's justified.
Really clever marketing on Zu's part to offer them at $999.00 with a no questions asked return policy. Although Music Direct here in Chicago sells them for $999.00 regular price! So anyone considering a purchase should buy from MD not Zu and save $500.00 bucks and the return policy is still in place. |
I have the Omen Defs and they are night and day different from the Essence that I just sold yesterday after over a year in my system and my girlfriend, audiophile and non audiophile friends all agreed that they are a step up for my listening space (bright,reflective surfaces everywhere).
The Omen Defs have a much larger soundstage, a very large sweet spot, and have the palpable feeling of being at the concert....everyone that has heard them has commented on the fact that it sounds like the band is playing "just over there". They are not the ultimate in imaging or soundstage accuracy, but for someone like me, who prefers musicality, and a live sound, these are a great bargain at the Black Friday pricing for sure.
The break in has been a slow and at times painful process, but I have preferred the Omen Defs over the Essence from the moment I took them out of the box.
I have found great improvement from small positioning changes, to raising them off of the floor using bolts to improve the porting, to the Majik Buss that i just added.
Overall, I am very happy with these speakers and I have found that they excel with Jazz, Acoustic, and even electronica..... |
And soul different again. |
>>01-10-11: Jamich
However, they both share the same 10 inch wideband driver<<
Incorrect.
Essence and Omen use different 10" drivers. |
I realize my experience is with the Essences so it might not apply exactly to the Omen. However, the both share the same 10 inch wideband driver. Compared to the 4 ohm tap, the 8 ohm tap delivers a crisper, faster, more open presentation. Until my speakers settled in a bit, I felt it was a bit too "in your face." So I tried the 4 ohm tap and found it smoothed things out a bit. The down side was the 4 ohm tap made things a bit too polite. Not offensive in any way and some listeners might prefer it over the 8. I thought the highs were rolled off a bit and the overall presentation lacked some air. A good demo would be Black Prarie's "Red Rocking Chair." In the end I think it's a very subjective call. Use the tap that produces the results you like the most. |
I have them and they are fine speakers, good budget components that allow you to experiment with many amps. I use them on the 8ohm tap as that is all my amp has. Depending on your room size you only need a couple watts. My amp has 9w and I never have to turn it up beyond 11 o'clock. |
Cwazz,
Check out the thread in the cheap and cheerful section of Audiocircle.com A number of ACers have purchased the Omens and posted thoughts and impressions there. |
Use the tube amp with the 8 ohm tap. Should be fine. |
Can we get back to the original question ,,,and has any bought the Omens yet and have a review of them?
Thanks |
Jayctoy, which Jolida powered the Essences? I find that the Essence driven by tubes is spot-on with vocals and pianos. Palpability and goosebumps are both included with the price of admission. What did you think of the bass response? |
Jamich I heard the Essences connected with Jolida tube
amp ,the musicality of this combination is unbelievable,
I can feel the emotion of Elton John while singing.The
dynamics,palpability,goosebumps all in there. |
"Character changes are rather obvious as the break-in proceeds." Boy, have you ever got that right. I'm just passing 100 hours on my Essences and have experienced the same exact thing. I also discovered how much a difference seating height makes, though that might not be as big an issue with the Omens. How do you find the Omen's bass response? While the Essence can reach down there (check Lyle Lovett's She's Already Made Up Her Mind), and the bass is quite tuneful, I do find that's a bit light weight at times. I found the Essence to become much smoother as it broke in. I'm currently driving them with a Bob Latino/VTA ST70 with all of the cap upgrades. The speaker connectors are hard wired to the 4 ohm tap which to my ears produces a somewhat laid back and polite sound. |
I just received my Omens today. Ive been running them with a DIY 2A3 SET and so far so good. Plenty of power at 4 watts, no issues with the 12 ohm impedance. I've got a way to go before I need toake a decision but I'm pretty sure I'll keep them. |
2nd day with the Omens driven by a Sophia Baby Amp (10wpc). 2/10 of volume effortlessly fills my C-shaped 25x25 listening room to "loud conversation" levels. 5/10 of volume annoys people watching a movie 2 rooms away. As previously noted - the character changes are rather obvious as the break-in proceeds (starts somewhat congested but within few hours it comes alive). Right now Joe Henderson playing Jobim comes through precisely and evenly laid out throughout the frequency range - perhaps the lower octave not as full just yet. |
Sebrof,
Yes, we received the Superfly's (Superflies?) a couple of weeks ago and love them. At first I thought the sound was a bit too forward but I think that was only in contrast to the speakers I had replaced them with, which were more recessed in sound. I'm using a NOSValves modified vintage Scott 299D Tube Integrated with 16 ohms taps and the synergy is perfect! Just the right amount of bloom with dynamics. Startling realism without losing any musicality. Only thing I regret now (although my wife is fine with it) is that they didn't make them available in walnut when we ordered them (we have the cosmic carbon finish). Could return them for an exchange I suppose but they are too difficult to unplug now. Also, I highly recommend the Zu Mission cables with them. |
Texas42 - Did you get your Superflys yet?
Your impression of the Omens is encouraging to me since I ordered a pair last week. Still $999 at Music Direct. Expected delivery end January, so I've got a little while to wait before I hear them. |
I'm sure they'd sound better with better amplification, but should still be nice with your receiver. I haven't heard the Omen Defs, just the Soul Superflys and it is hard to make them sound 'bad' with amplification.
As far as creating a 5.1 system with the rest of the Omen speakers, I can only say of cours! That largely seems to be the point of the other speakers in the line--I think thats evident by the fact that they're actually offering bundle pricing on the Omen Defs and Bookshelves
I'd hold off on the sub and see if its needed in the setup. The Omen Defs are supposed to have a great bottom end and I suspect you may have a difficult time integrating subs to the speakers. |
How would the Omen Defs sound with a mid range receiver like an Integra or Marantz? Is the power clean enough for these? I am encouraged by the reviews relative to the pricing. Could these be used with two Omen bookshelves, the Omen Center and a sub as a 5.1 system? I'm looking to utilize this system for both music and home theater in a fairly large room. |
Thanks Jamich , can you please keep us up to date on this I appreciated it. |
I have to agree with Atmasphere's comment about accuracy, but with a slight reservation. I'm three weeks into my home trial of a pair of Essences. They possess the same 10" wide bander, but unlike the Omen, they use a ribbon tweeter. I've been experimenting with a variety of tube amps and taps. I'm currently using a push-pull EL84 amp that produces 22 wpc.
Since the speakers are still breaking in their character changes gradually. However, at this point one thing is very clear. They are capable of revealing all sorts of details. So far their presentation is one of rock solid images with a deep sound stage and plenty of air. Voice is reproduced in a fleshy, three dimensional manner. Piano, whether from a CD or LP, is stunning in tone, decay and resonance.
If anything seems out of whack at this stage it's the bass. While the Essence can produce solid bass (try Lyle Lovett's "She's already Made Up Her Mind"), it doesn't seem to blend seamlessly with the rest of the frequency spectrum. To my ears that makes the midrange stand out a bit too much and emphasizes the perception of "accuracy." At this point this may be a break in issue. I've got less than 100 hours on them. The wide bander uses a pleated surround which takes a notoriously long time time break in.
As part of a special promotion, I was given a 90 day home trial, so I'm in no hurry to rush to any judgement. I'm encouraged by what I'm hearing. |
The ZU speakers seem to work better with amplifiers that have a slightly higher output impedance, and the newer models seem like they are more accurate/less forgiving of brightness and sluggish behavior from the amp. So yes, some amps will be revealed in this fashion quite quickly.
So while the speaker does not mind having power at its disposal, it had better be clean power. Its a common experience that smaller amplifiers sound better and in this case the biggest amp you might ever want to put on this speaker might only make 40-50 watts at the most. A lot of bigger amps may not be up to the task. |
"as long as the amp has the finesse to not make a fool of itself"
Is it possible for a amp to make a fool out of it's self? I will admit mt Rogue's do have personality. |
No- they like power just fine, as long as the amp has the finesse to not make a fool of itself. |
So I guess 180 watt monoblocks are out of the question for Zu speakers? |
Mahughes, no, that is as opposed to the Druid.
Afc, the ZU speakers are all fairly high efficiency. So they encourage the user to use lower-powered amplifiers if they can. An excellent example of this is the Definition, which is 6 ohms. A lot of people want to put a smaller amp on that, because they really don't need the power.
Now with OTLs, you have a phenomena of economy of scale- the bigger the OTL, the more efficient it becomes with low impedance speakers. That is why are larger amps like the MA-1, MA2 and MA-3 can fly in the face of conventional OTL mythology as they can be quite comfortable with 4 ohm speakers.
But smaller OTLs, because of this economy of scale, don't make good power into lower impedances. Normally the ZU speakers are 12 ohms, and almost any OTL made can drive that easily. But 6 ohms... now if you want to use a 30-watt OTL, with that impedance it will play, but it won't sound right.
There was/is a 30-ohm version of the Definition, that plays beautifully with smaller OTLs. And now there are newer ZU speakers that have a switch so you can set that impedance high if you want to, allowing for a lower powered OTL and the speaker to strut their stuff.
|
Atmasphere - interested that you think Omen was the move that Zu needed to move - does that mean as opposed to the Soul? |
If you think a 12 ohm impedance throws some people off, look at the quick comparison chart for Dominance, which is coming out in January. It's user switchable, and can be set to 48 ohms. Not a typo there- FORTY EIGHT! What stinking tap do you use then? LOL.
@Ralph- not a dig at your gear, not at all (especially since I intend to buy an OTL amp in the next year), but I have a question for you. On that same comparo chart Zu has, it says some of their speaker designs suffer from "poor bass response" or only "fair" bass with OTL amplifiers. What's the rub there? What kind of speaker would make an OTL amp sound limp in the bass response? Still trying to learn about these OTL amps and how they differ from the standard transformer containing amps. One of the great mysteries of my life right now. I can take a body apart and put it back together easy, but this electronic stuff baffles me sometimes. |
We've got customers who have an like the combo a lot, but I've not heard them myself. |
@Atmasphere- have you listened to the Zu Essence with your gear? Thoughts on that match? |
They appear to have gone hyperactive. Omen, Soul, Soul Superfly, Omen Definition and now the Omen Centre. There are at least 3 other speakers (beyond what you've mentioned) coming in the Omen line in the very near future. Yes, they are in overdrive. That said--ignoring my own suggestion, I'm curious as to ow the Omen Def compares to my Soul Superflys. Tough call, but I'd stick with the Superfly. Then again, I've never been a fan multiple midrange drivers, so the Superfly fits my preferences better. |
Gopher,
That way madness lies :) Leave it be! |
I think the Omen and Soul should be looked at as separate speaker lines with different target end users rather than competing within the same line.
Its an interesting approach which actually makes a lot of sense as it unfolds.
That said--ignoring my own suggestion, I'm curious as to ow the Omen Def compares to my Soul Superflys. |
They appear to have gone hyperactive. Omen, Soul, Soul Superfly, Omen Definition and now the Omen Centre. And they appear to be working Saturdays to ship stuff. |
Omen Definition will sell for $2500.
98dB
6 ohms
Sangria, Electric Blue, Ghost Black
Dealer disclaimer |
