03-25-12: Rolandbutcher
Just saw that Steve Lefkowicz has a review of the Tekton Lores on Positive Feedback Online."
I think he liked them ;) |
Just saw that Steve Lefkowicz has a review of the Tekton Lores on Positive Feedback Online. |
Hi all ! I agree that it is fun to see what
great electronics do with these speakers . I am using an Ayon CD-2s cd player , a Cary slp-05 pre with a Cary v12 amp . Sounds quite dynamic and musical . Dont really feel the need to " upgrade" these speakers , although if my room was bigger I would get the Pendragons . |
I bought the Pendragons to use in a HT system I like them so much that now i.am working on upgrading all my electronics to see just how good these speakers can be.beautifully balanced great dynamics if you like live sound you will LOVE the Pendragon's.My present set up is Integra 9.9,Anthem MCA 5,Paradigm Reference center and surrounds servo 15 sub.My peference is integrateds with ht bypass looking at luxman 505u,Primaluna Dialogue two and Audio Research vSI60 asking for recommendations.Eric a great guy to work with is making me a center for HT.these speakers are special they deserve the best you can afford to get the best from them. |
After reading all the great reviews i decided to order the Pendragon. I was looking for a second used pair of Lore and i was able to locate a pair on Audioown.com I will use the Lore in my HT and the Pendragon in my 2 channel listening room |
No sweat Goraman, I get where you're coming from, wholeheartedly. |
I am curious about the Lore speakers. Wondered if any of the inmates that own these would be interested in having other inmates over to listen to them since these speakers are sold direct and there is no way to audition them before purchasing. I'm in the Philly, DE, South NJ area. Anyone live in this area that owns these? I sold a Modwright preamp to a local audiophile and he was running Zu speakers (not sure what model) with a low powered Pass amp. Sounded good to me, but I was not listening intently - never before interested in doing the high efficient speaker thing. I miss the immediacy and punch of live sound, and my planar speakers are not strong in that area. I am a musician and an audiophile (a somewhat rare combo). Trying to reproduce a live sound is tough. The Tektons have me intrigued. |
Floosh, I recommended the Little Dot because of it's price point the Jolida was a bit more expensive.
You do have a point,but your cable tweek was a very small reason for my rant.I have just been overwhelmed lately by
some of the ridicules claims made by guys halking very over priced wire and other seemingly magic fixes!
My point has been made so lighten up I shall!
|
Hi all ! Rayray8......just be patient , you will be rewarded with great sound and great dynamics. |
All very important to keep in mind, Goraman. I'm glad you made those points. The trouble for me, as I've been down that road of tweaking things when I needed to make a significant change, is that you don't know what you don't know. This is probably the biggest issue for novices or those without the technical engineering background to know crap marketing when they see it. Unfortunately, these online forums merely fan the flames of desire most of the time. If you call people out on their crap marketing, it becomes a pissing match, and the novice/amateur is left wondering who to trust. Ultimately, it ends up being a lot of trial and error and building up of experience. At least that's what my experience has been.
I'm disadvantaged in living two hours outside of Kansas City, the nearest major metropolitan area. I think there's only one or two dealers in the whole area, and I just don't have the chance to check out stuff in-person. In my case, the internets giveth in terms of access to a profound diversity and wealth of equipment options, but they taketh in the difficulty of discerning truth from fiction, as well as in figuring out whether my tastes/ears have anything in common with the reviewer or forum post author. |
Goramon, nice thrashing of a strawman.
Who's harping on cables? I may have included them a couple of weeks ago as an "etc" when questioning what sort of upgrades/tweaks people may have found useful. That's it. And you've been in crusade mode since.
And you're the guy touting his upgraded binding posts, upgraded internal wiring, tweeter deffractors, speaker spikes, and the new Jolida DAC you rolled 1 week after recommending your Little Dot. Plus all the times you've mentioned how revealing Lores are of EVERY upgrade and tweak you've made.
I value your opinion and experience but, jeeze, lighten up. |
Hi Goraman, great example and you described me in my early years, gave me a hearty chuckle. Good thing I learn fast. Best! |
Tubes do make a noticeable difference,and even the difference between UL and triode can be very different and we could go into an amp being anolitical or even very warm.
And once more I was painting with to broad a brush to make a finer point.So thanks for calling me on it.
My point was simply this,to meany times I have seen people attack a major problem by making changes to everything but the problem.
for example.
1.A guy gets a very forward and bright pair of horn speakers and changes interconnects,speaker cables and then moves all the furniture in his house then covers the place with room treatments, then finality after a year of changing everything else decides the problem is actually the speakers.
Always start with the most likely link in the chain for example if you never had the problem before,what was the last thing you added or changed?
Sound simple? for some it is not,they want the new componate to work so badly they will exhaust every possible avenue.
When all else fails, reason comes on like a bad hang over and they admit they chose crap.And all the cables and clip on devices won't change that!
I'm not saying amps, tubes ect.. won't make a difference,it just seems so meany people are lead to spending money on very expensive interconnects and other magic beans instead of careful shopping and common sense. And there are so meany snake oil selling crooks,that mislead and down right burn people out of a lot of money for worthless crap in a shinny wrapper.
"There's a sucker born every minute,you just happened along"
Tom Waits quoting P.T.Barnum
That statement is alive and well in audio today,so forgive me if I tend to become a little vocal from time to time but I hate seeing people given bad advice,even if it is the popular opinion of the day.
And trust me when I say,I have seen manufacturers of cables and other stuff mislead people who are still novice and trying to learn or worse people who should know better but desperate to solve a major problem cheaply. |
thanks for the reassurance! just a little frustrated to be told one thing before i placed the order and then it changes after the order is placed. |
I ordered mine in early March of last year, and didn't receive them until the first week of April. Granted, I had a special veneer that took some extra time. Eric was pretty up-front about being patient, but it did take a little more time than he originally quoted. I wouldn't be worried, but sympathize with your anxiousness to have them. |
I appreciate all that Goraman has written here, but Genjamon also makes valid points. When I make a tube change in the Primaluna Dialogue1, say from the stock Primaluna tubes (EL 34 and driver tubes) to Amperex 12AU7 Bugle Boys and 5751 Sylvania Gold Grey Plate 3m along with NOS 6n3ce Output tubes there is an enormous change for the better in every parameter. It is significant and undeniable. Does it change the inherent characteristics of the Lore or 4.5s? No! But the sound from them is much, much better, the tube changes helped the amp to sound better and consequently bring out the best inherent qualities in the Lore and 4.5s in my room to "my ears." |
Rayray8: Your patience will be rewarded. Eric is pretty busy these days. Mine took 3.5 weeks to complete and shipped. I've been digging through my old CD's every night now and rediscovered a whole new listening experience with the Lore. |
I don't disagree with Goraman's comments about amps and other switching around not making more than minor differences, compared to what changing speakers offers in the equation. However, I would say that sometimes for me that 1% difference is all the difference in the world. That's really what I'm playing around with in my amplifier switching. I had a Decware Torii II over last summer for a weeklong trial, and I didn't get near the magic from that tube amp with my Lores than I'm getting with the SP3 right now. Slightly different flavors of the same base sound for me. The Ampino was my preference in the Decware shoot-out, but so far this SP3 is giving almost all of the strengths of the Ampino with some additional soundstage and tonal body to instruments.
Are they completely different animals? No. Do they give slightly different, but definitely distinctive lenses on the basic qualities of the Lores? Yes.
Granted, neither of these amps are what you would consider true high performance amps. They're both awesome for the money, and that's the level of money I can play with. I assume stepping up the ladder would lead to greater refinement, and right now I'm trying to decide which ladder to step up.
So, I guess I'd say that while I'm still experimenting, I have found in some of my trials that 1% is sometimes all you need to make the difference between good/interesting and truly involving. |
for those that have ordered tekton speakers from their website, how long did it take to receive them? i placed an order on March 1st and Eric said they would ship in 5-10 days. then 2 days ago he says they will ship in 5-7 days. |
I'm quite interested in trying the new Red Wine Audio Signature 15 - it might be the best of both worlds and would save me from focusing next on cleaning up power to amp/preamp, allowing me to focus on cleaning up the power on my source. I've heard good things about that amp, including from Eric himself. |
Goraman, I don't even have the speakers yet, I never said there was a problem. I simply asked if others were finding characteristics they were trying to enhance or tone down.
It was primary related to DACs, as I was debating whether to go with a high clarity/resolving DAC like the Bifrost, or a perhaps something smoother sounding like a TubeDac-11. I went with the Bifrost.
And, FWIW, I really don't care about cables as dear ones are out of my budget at the moment anyway. I was merely fishing for people to describe their own perceived strengths and weaknesses of the Lores.
Truth be told, I'm just overanxious for them to arrive... |
A testament to how well the Lores disappear...
I just had a friend over (someone who doesn't know an amplifier from a Walkman), and she was sitting in my sweetspot listening to jazz and asked, "where's the center speaker?" She wouldn't believe me that the music was coming from the Lores. And it's true--I'm listening to Jackie McLean and Kenny Dorham right now, and even though my listening position forms an equilateral triangle with the speakers, the music is coming from straight ahead of me. Someone earlier in this thread described the Lores' ability to image as erie, and now I see why.
Thanks for the advice everyone gave me on speaker positioning. It really came in handy when the Lores arrived this weekend. Happy listening... |
Floosh, How would rolling different amps change the abilitys or voicing of the speakers.An amplifier at it's best game just sends a louder signal identical match from the source with out any additional information.
If the source is great, or it sucks the amp should only send it along a some what louder.After that the voicing and limits of the speakers will affect the sonic end of the chain.
This is why I roll with laughter when people try to make up for a major deficiency by changing interconnects,speaker cables and even tubes to some degree.You can't seriously make more than a 1% difference with with any cable unless one is defective,even tubes make a very subtle difference.
The best way to address the problem is to isolate the problem componate and either fix it,up grade it or replace it. But you can't mask it.
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Floosh, yeah I've had an initial foray into amp experimentation. I have an Onix SP3 playing for the past two weeks. It has the recommended upgraded tubes - Groove Tubes 12AX7, Electro Harmonix 6922, SED Flying C 6L6GC.
My other amp I had been using is the Dayens Ampino 25WPC integrated. So now I'm using a dynamic ~40WPC push pull tube amp. I find the SP3 to have more soundstage depth, better fleshiness of instruments, isn't less detailed than the Ampino, but takes a little of the edge off. Overall, I think an improvement, but I haven't yet swapped back to the Ampino again. I want to do that again sometime soon after my ears have really settled into the SP3, as I've found sometimes when I swap back I find things I didn't realize I was missing after the newness of the new amp wears off.
I'm quite interested in trying the new Red Wine Audio Signature 15 - it might be the best of both worlds and would save me from focusing next on cleaning up power to amp/preamp, allowing me to focus on cleaning up the power on my source. |
Genjamon, a month or so back you were talking about trying different amps with your Lores in an attempt to close the gap in sound between them and the Lore-S. I'm wondering if that happened and how it went? |
The Lores fresh off the boat and right out of the box are dynamic,warm and offer reasonable sound stage but lack refinement through no fault in there drivers, cabinet or design.They are limited only by price point.
Spend a little more money on them internally and the results with good source material go's from good to jaw dropping and drooling on your self.My guess is the Lore S most likely uses better capacitors and maybe resisters.
If your looking for electrostatic imaging it is simply not possible to beat Sound Lab 945's with 2X 3125 square inches of radiating surface.No 10 inch driver and 1 inch tweeter can radiate at a combined 11 inch driver surface the kind of imaging possible from a massive high voltage panel.
I would love to have a Lore S owner come over and hear my Lores and give me there opinion.
But being none of us has heard any of all the candidates auditioned in the same room on the same equipment it is all subjective any way REALLY... |
The Snell C7's beat Martin logan at their own game in many ways... except space and air.
They are a dynamic speaker...
I'm simply asking that if someone wanted to go to a dynamic type speaker on a budget and if said person likes the stageing, detail, immediacy etc of a planar which Tekton might suit them???
I assumed because of the discussion here on this thread that the soundstage is larger/deeper and with more detail with the Katz and Lore-S the'd be the closest, and since there is no comparing of the two on this thread or anywhere on the net that I can tell, I thought I'd pose the question.
So I may have been wrong, you say Lore's are the ones...
Thanks |
I would say the Lore-S has effortless detail, soundstage depth to spare, and a good warmth. Lore has the dynamics and can fill a room more, though. I was persuaded by the idea of pursuing greater detail from the Lore via Goraman's upgrade approach rather than keep the Lore-S and sacrifice the dynamics I had become used to.
I am not familiar with planar speakers, so can't comment on how Lore-S would compare beyond some very brief run-ins at RMAF the one year I went in 2010. |
Scuttlflux, Your talking apples and oranges.
Both your maggies and Martin Logans are Electrostatic plainers
a very different sounding animal compaired from the acoustic suspension driver world.
And you left out the very best example of Electrostatics of all,the Sound lab Majestic 945's these are so real sounding it will simply blow your mind in a largish room 6 ft. from a treated rear wall.I heard a pair driven with big Manley Labs monos on a cork floor.I have owned Sound labs smaller panels and heard other models in the PX series as well as the older Aroras and Dynastats and can promise you they are far better at producing a huge holographic sound stage than any other pannel. http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/majestic.htm
Here is some serious monos to pair with them also the big Walcots are good.
http://www.manley.com/neo500.php
I used a 355 watt per channel amp as the impedance is what kills you when it swings 300ohms on a full range monster with over 600 inches of tweeter and drops to under 20hz!
Now,having taken the extreme path via electrostatics lets get to reality for most of us,I sold that kit when my son was born.I didn't need 800to 900 volts running under a membrain thinner than cellophane on a cigarette pack, lethal with poke of a finger or toy!
I have not heard the lore S but own the Lore and it has the dynamics,speed and punch that you may not get in the Lore S or Kats. Speed and punch is one of the characteristics people love in electrostatics,the other is detail and the Lore is capable of that too but you will have to send Eric better internal wire,better caps,resisters and binding posts to make the Lore as detailed as the panels we just discussed.but it can be done at around the price of the lore S or a little more.Unless your happy to do it your self,I did.And I would not trade my lores to have my panels back and I drive them at just a couple watts 90% of the time.10 watts per channel is plenty loud in a 20X16 treated room.
If you want stock and the only choice was the LoreS and Katz
I think you would do better with the larger cabinet of the Lore S. but I have not heard either one of those and I don't really know for sure what it is you are sonicly seeking. |
Hey, can anybody/has anybody compared the Lore-S vs Katzmeow ???
Eric described Katz meow as kind of like a B&W killer and the Lore-S as detailed and refie. I'm not really sure what that means in regards to eachother so I thought I'd ask around. Any descripter would help.
BTW I'm listening to Maggies, I like ML's and heard some Snell C7's I thought where really great today. I seem to value a good dose of natural effortless detail and a deep soundstage.
Which one's for me Lore-S or Katz? |
Finally got my Lores today. They sound great. I mostly listen to jazz, and the Lores are perfect for reproducing the dynamism of a live jazz performance. I'll post further impressions when I've had more time with them, and they've had a chance to break in. But so far, couldn't be happier. |
12-21-11: Fusion10
1. My room is about 13 x 11 - on the small side. Is the M-Lore too large? I worry because when I tried a pair of Monitor Audio RX2, with the 8" woofer and rear port, it overloaded the room. May I ask on the placement of the RX2 in the room? How far are the RX2s from the front wall and side walls? I presume the speakers are on the short wall. Thanks. |
The stock tubes sound great they are reissue Tung Sols.
It also likes EI's and 1950 RCA black plates. NOS tube prices have gone insane in the last couple years so stay with reissues if you don't happen to have some vintage tubes from years back laying around. |
Goramon, I'm thinking of buying a Schiit Bifrost but that Jolida is on my radar as well. How's it w/ supplied tubes and how much would one have to pay for "proper" tubes, and what might they be? (I'm New to tubes.) |
It is even more clear to me then ever that the Lores can become as revealing as any high end speaker.
After listening to different DAC's both at home and in a Boutique audio store on speakers with much higher price tags,I am even more impressed with the lores than I have ever been before.With so little spent on upgrades these speakers are just to dammed good to be true!
They reached a level that simply is analog as any live performance with the new Jolida FX tube DAC, 0 grain just smooth as silk pajamas and no detail left obscured.
Seriously,what more could you want from any speaker at any price?Sweet highs,a smooth mid range and clean tight deep bass that you can really feel even at very low wattage.
If your on the fence about buying a pair of these speakers,Please allow me to push you over as your not going to do any better than the Lores at any where near the price.
If I haven't said it before "Thank You Eric" |
Im breaking in a new Jolida FX tube DAC I searched through my old stock of 12AX7's and rolled some tubes at this point it seems to like the early 90's Ei's.
It is sonicly very similar to the Little Dot DAC 1 and DAC Majic just smoother.
I'm sure it will get even better because both the DAC and tubes are in there 2nd hour.
And the Clarity Cap ESA's take 200 hours to break in alone.
I'm done with system building. It's really far better sounding than it has any right to be at this point. |
Even if someone else builds your crossover,it is soldered to the speaker terminals.Practice soldering and find a mentor(maybe a local HAM amateur radio operator) to guide you.If you are going to live in the world of HiFi learn to solder and use a multi meter to check resistance,voltage and UF/PF.and the basic symbols so you can read or draw a schematic.
Any 4th or 5th grade kid can learn these basics and it will save you a lot of time and money through out your life.
There are loads of books and youtube videos to guide you on your way after 3 months you should be ready to tackle the Lore cross over if your serious about learning these basic skills. Go to a HAM swap and look for an older retired guy and just tell him you need help,most of these guys love to help teach someone who wants to learn.Sadly alot of these guys will pass away never getting to teach what took them years to learn,a real loss to everyone.Heat the work not the solder and keep the tip clean! Flux is your friend!
Now get to it! |
My Lore arrived Hong Kong yesterday, briefly spend some time with it last night at low volume. My first impression is WOW! The Lore plays everything at ease and equally balanced no matter what volume level I set. Can't wait to see what the Lore can do when fully broken-in.
BTW, I'm not an audiophile and I'm only using my AV Receiver Yamaha RX-A2010 in Pure Direct mode to drive the Lore. Thinking of getting the Miniwatt tube amp later. Thanks for all those who have recommended the Lore in this forum. |
You will like them,but if you do not have good soldering skills and the ability to draw a diagram before you disassemble, so you can reassemble with the new upgrade parts. Then get someone who dose to help you and do it all at the same time.Remember ("DO NO HARM").
You should start learning to solder on something you get at a yard sale or charity shop not a $1.000.00 pair of brand new speakers.My first soldering job was in 1974 making my first crystal radio set.A great project for a first timer.
Suggestions.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-545
These 2 items will take you along way in your new hobby.
|
+1 on Floosh's comment about tweaks, Goramon. I do want to move forward with those tweaks, but am not very confident with my soldering skills and also would want some details on component ordering. Great summary and suggestions though. I'm left wondering if I couldn't just get someone (maybe Eric) to make me some drop in replacement crossovers to swap out myself... |
I really appreciate the advice, Goraman.
I may hit you up for more info on your tweaks down the road, but I wont bother you on that yet, cuz I'm not at all electrically inclined, so when I do I'll need it all spelled out in excruciating detail.
I should probably make sure I even like the speakers first ;-)
Cheers. |
"Still no one w/ M-Lore's?
I know Eric is busy building them, the two reviews out there have driven orders, but so few user comments..."
I'm looking to replace my PSB Stratus Mini's with a small efficient floorstander and am also greatly interested in the M-Lore. I might just have to try a pair out and do my own comparison since user reviews are so hard to come by. |
Your DAC choice will have a far bigger impact than any pair of cables.I would look at the Little Dot DAC from China in your price range.Why? because of the huge tiroidal transformer and Wolfson chip not to mention the way Sword Yang carefully implemented it all in his design.I chose the LD1 over the Cambridge Dac Magic because the little dot simply had a far better sense of scale and dynamics the little wall wart could not deliver in the DAC Majic another nice DAC in it's own right.
The Lores are perfectly balanced but can be taken to another level of detail.So there is no problem with highs and lows but the level of information that makes it through them.
If you want to get to that level you will have to do some soldering or have it done,or you could just be happy with what you have.Having said all that get your source and amp right then look to sorting out where you want to go with the Lores.Time is your friend,there is no hurry,just research before you buy.Best of luck! |
Wondering if anyone could speak to how they're trying to affect the Lore sound w/ DACs, cables, etc. What do you find that you're trying to increase/decrease in terms of highs, lows, detail, etc.
I'll be starting with low-fi SS power, which I'll look to replace w/ a budget tube amp in the not too distant future, but first will come a DAC. The two emergent candidates are the Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11 and the Schiit Bifrost. (Both ~$350) I'd love to know if anyone has thoughts on which might have better synergy w/ the Lores? My hunch is the Bifrost may be the more clinical/resolving of the two but I'm not sure of that. |
Well, after a week of album rolling with the new binding posts
I can make a final comment on the Lores ability to preform with upgrades as time and money fits.
By far my advise is to leave the inductors as they are 18 awg. and the DC resistance is part of Erics formula for great bass extension.It is not easy to remove the cross over so if possible replace the caps,resistors and internal wire at the same time.I have been in these speakers a lot rolling caps and upgraded everything but the inductors. I would save the posts for last but they do make a difference so don't count them out.
What is the end result after so much time and soldering.
A far more detailed and smoother Lore with a fuller,richer sound that I can describe as both Dynamic and Lush.
The Lores respond very well to being upgraded, and go well beyond another level of music reproduction.
Some of the most revered brands offer upgrades for example Audio Note UK has levels of upgrades so it doesn't mean you bought bad speakers just because they can be improved on!
Whats nice is that the Design and driver selection by Eric is so good it can be taken to another level at a reasonable cost.Some speakers just don't respond much no matter how much time and money you put into them, the Lores respond to every upgrade.So Happy Soldering guy's! Build your own Hot Rod Lore and Enjoy the results!
Please share your upgrades with us,get it on guys! |
If I remember correctly, grills for Lore's are $70 + $20 for shipping (they are packed separate from the speaker to prevent damage).
Sure it hurts to pay extra for them (I did), but if one doesn't want them it's nice to know they're saving that money. Works both ways. |
03-01-12: Obrown
"Hard to take a company serious that lists a speaker's price without grilles."
Hmmm, not sure what that means??
I see you are looking for Zu speakers. As someone who has owned both I suggest you take Tekton seriously. |
FWIW, I have ordered Lore's (patiently awaiting their arrival), but still I wonder if the smaller driver of the M-Lore doesn't produce a purer, more articulate mid-range? |
Still no one w/ M-Lore's?
I know Eric is busy building them, the two reviews out there have driven orders, but so few user comments... |
My Lore is on the way to Hong Kong! Although I'm no audiophile, reading all the great comments here made me decided to give the Lore a try. BTW, Eric has great International shipping rate, it only cost US$333 with grill to ship to Hong Kong by Fedex! Wow that's very economical for 120lbs+ of goods. |
