The best tube amps I’ve used over the 10+ years I’ve owned Harbeth’s are as follows (not in order of preference):
- McIntosh MC275 MKV (75-90 WPC) with 40.1’s
- VAC 70/70 Signature (68 WPC) with 40.1’s and SHL5’s
- Music Reference RM9 MK2 (125 wpc) with 40.1’s and 40.2 Anniversaries
Other tube amps owned/used with Harbeth, but not recommended based upon my experience:
- McIntosh MA2275 integrated with 40.1’s (too soft, totally lacking dynamics... very disappointing... awful pairing)
- VAC PHI 200 with 40.1’s (excellent bass, but lacking transparency, detail and air)
- VAC 30/30 with 40.1’s (excellent midrange at low to moderate volume, but lacked power @ only 32 WPC... but a great amp with a higher efficiency speaker).
The only solid state amp I liked was a Plinius SA-102 paired with an Aesthetix Calypso preamp, driving 40.1’s.
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i have paired the following tube amps over the years with the c7, super 5 and mon 40
cj prem 11a
ram modjeski rm10
vac ren 30-30
primaluna dialogue hp prem
linear tube audio zotl40 ref
audio research vt60, vt50, vt100-2, ref 75, ref 110
only in the case of the higher arc tube amps and the lta did i feel the sound quality was to my liking... in most cases i felt the bass to be too muddy, mid bass too plump and slow, and highs need more definition
i found happiness moving to high grade solid state amps, such as class a models from pass, belles, and hegel amps (not class a), along with the agd audions most recently... primare odyssey and naim units were also good, but not as good...
my taste, my system, my experiences and findings, hope that helps
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I could definitely see old CJ Premier being too soft. This would likely hold true with other classic sounding tube gear...It’s been decades since I have owned CJ. I’m trying to reassemble a second system, from which the C’7’s and budget pair of Mogami speaker cables are the only thing I held on to. My budget is $2500-$5000, but I will be trying to do this in the $2500 range.. BEK Hi-fi has some interesting choices, and they are drivable from my home. Those of interest would be Audio Hungary, and perhaps Sugden. I will say I’m concerned that tubes and C7’s may not be happening synergy wise. If I do venture out to hear (and enjoy) a low-mid budget system with another speaker, I will simply move on from Harbeth. I’m speaking of something like a Vandersteen 1 or 2, where 60-100 tube WPC is plenty. I’m simply using Vandersteen as an example. Thank you for the zotl 40 ref, Mac 275, and the other suggestions. I should ad I have Ton Trager stands, and even though I have an open mind, I would like to see the C7's work.
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@fjn04
i was just reporting my own experiences, as you asked, those were not recommendations
within your budget and as an actual recommendation, i would recommend a modest hegel integrated (h90, 95, 160 and so on) as an outstanding mate for harbeth c7’s - outstanding bass control/prat, uber clean treble that accentuates great imaging, and pure midrange that takes advantage of the c7’s greatest strength... if you want some tubey goodness, run an mhdt nos r2r tube dac upstream
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Appreciate that jjss. I've been doing some You Tube homework on Dac's. I'm sure you are aware of the ladder (R2R) type Dac's and how they generally differ sonically versus standard chip DAC'S. I'm extremely out of touch with Dac's, so I won't push my luck and try to comment here. Hegel...? Guess I should be open minded...they are certainly easy to find used. No offense to anyone that has offered their generous thoughts so far, but I just have to ask....Is there anyone who feels I am setting myself up for a merry-go-round ride with tubes and the C'7's. Sorry to be repetitive, but please don't forget, $5K Max retail.
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I have run the Harbeth C7ES3 and SHL5+ on tune amplifiers in my med-large room. I tend to like the higher powered KT120 amps and used the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II and then the Rogue Audio Stereo 100.
The sound in all cases was sublime. Rogue tube amps sound much better than many people give them credit for. Power, punchy bass, ultra refined, transparent and a humongous sound stage.
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I ran my Super HL5 Plus with Rogue Audio M180 amps and they sounded great. I've also used them in a second system with an ARC Vsi55 integrated and that may have been an even better combination. The best I've heard Harbeths sound was at my friend's house - he had a Line Magnetic LM-805iA integrated and the 40.2s and has a very well treated room. Sublime.
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@big_greg
The best I’ve heard Harbeths sound was at my friend’s house - he had a Line Magnetic LM-805iA integrated and the 40.2s and has a very well treated room. Sublime.
Roughly 50 watts of pure class A. I could imagine those 805 output tubes having enough grunt to provide good bass control. Midrange should be stunningly good.
Charles
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It’s looking as if tubes are ok, with two important caveats in mind. 1) have 60 + watts on tap, such as a stereo ARC amp with a quad of KT 88 (Kt 150) tubes. 2) Perhaps I’m reading in to this too much, but I see a pattern of liking a more linear tube sound. I was thinking about one of the Cayin amps, which lean to the classic tube side. I heard they try to emulate the McIntosh sound in their designs, and I assume that would be the old McIntosh sound. The newer Mac has gone in the same direction as many of the big tube names that come to mind. I’m not knocking this, as much as simply making the point. Should also ad that I've heard LM and owned the 211 IA. I really enjoy their sound, but this being a second system, I want keep it simpler. Maybe I'm getting old, but I want an amp I can move myself. The Wonderfull sounding 805 and whatever model replaced the 518 IA are just not what I'm looking for right now. I want to have a system I can turn on, listen for short periods, and turn off. With my main system, I tend to pass on listening unless I have a fair amount of time to listen. So this system won't quite be on the LM SET level, which to my ears, is certainly reference level.
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@fjn04
my further input to you is as follows as you decide in your own case
1. with c7’s on proper stands, a key variable as you probably know is how they are placed in the room w.r.t. room boundaries and boundary bass reinforcement - this aspect in my experience with all harbeths (other than the teeny p3’s) is really important to dial in to get the best possible presentation and relative balance of bass and mid bass in relation to treble and midrange
2. c7’s are also a pretty benign 6 ohm load, so most decent tube amps will drive them to reasonable volumes... the issue is the quality of sound that is produced, and specifically the overall sense of transparency and sufficiency of bass grip/impact
3. i have always felt that all but the best tube amps (in my book, the higher audio research ones) left the harbeths bass slow soft and sloppy, so thus i have ended up always using top solid state amps that have vastly superior bass control (and sweet sound up the range)... also the better ss amps bring the c7 treble response forward some, which is to my liking - once again, my ears my room my taste
4. more traditional sounding tube amps to me entirely mirror and accentuate the c7’s nature - midrange lushness, treble reticence, full midbass and somewhat weak/slow deep bass, so to me, they bring negative synergy - but i could see such tube amps working if one uses powered subs to augment (i tried this, i have a pair of rels, but i still felt the midbass, while rich and full, lacked my desired level of definition and speed)...
hope that helps, good luck
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My Harbeth SHL5+ can sound a bit on the bright side with SS amplification. I tried them with Luxman 590AXII, and as good as the pairing was it did tend to sound a little bright on some recordings. Moving to a tube amp -- Audio Hungary Qualiton a50i, took care of that issue. This is a sublime pairing and one that I intend to keep until I can upgrade to M40.2/3 in the future.
With M30.1 (haven't tried 30.2s though), I found the opposite to be true. These guys need an SS kick in the gut to really wake them up. Don't get me wrong, they still sound quite good with tubes but you really need big power tube amps. Little guys need not apply here. But they really shine when fed with quality SS amplification. I heard these with Hegel H390 at a dealers last year, and it was a great pairing.
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At one point, I was using at BAT VK-60 with my Super HL-5's. Listening to mostly rock, the Harbeths were likely not my best choice to begin with, but they sounded good so I kept them for years; still have them though I'm using other speakers now that are more appropriate to the kind of music I listen to.
With the VK-60, they were even less 'rock and roll' speakers but had beautiful midrange. I've since replaced that with an MSB S-200 power amp and a Herron Audio tube preamp; that made the Harbeths more to my liking....
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Tried SHL5+ with PL Dialogue Premium HP and also with McIntosh 275(s). Awful. They sounded great with a vintage Sony TA-N77ES, but absolutely stunning with a Pass XA-30.8.
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@arafiq
My Harbeth SHL5+ can sound a bit on the bright side with SS amplification. I tried them with Luxman 590AXII, and as good as the pairing was it did tend to sound a little bright on some recordings. Moving to a tube amp -- Audio Hungary Qualiton a50i, took care of that issue.
if i am recalling correctly from early on when you started posting here, you were/are dealing with a listening room with lots of glass and other hard surfaces, so if this is still the case i am not surprised you need to tame the highs of the super 5s... in general though, i would say most owners of super 5’s would not have that issue, in fact most are trying to get the speakers to have a little more top end energy and marginally improve the jump factor of the speaker
just another real life example of how forums and their advice can only get one so far... folks who want the ideal sound have to work on it in their own space and situation
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I had the Harbeth C7s, and I tried several different integrated amps with them. The only tube integrated that came close to driving them to my liking was the Primaluna Dialogue HP with KT150s. However, I far preferred a Bryston B100 solid state integrated amp to any of the tubed models.
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@jjss49 -- I have two system setups in my house. The one in the home office has a glass door plus the usual home office stuff (desk, bookshelves, etc.). However, the SHL5+ are, and always have been, in the media room which has no windows, has a carpet plus rug, and is nicely treated with GIK panels. I spent quite a bit of time and effort in treating that room and placement options, and I can assure you it was not the reason.
If you do a search on audiogon for keywords 'harbeth' and 'bright', you will see a number of folks who have reported similar findings as mine. But keep in mind that it is all relative. What I call bright might be zesty and fun for someone else. Either way, the Qualiton took care of that slight bit of brightness and thinness I experienced with Luxman, but without losing any details or resolution.
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+1 on Harbeths with Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III. I have SHL5+ and love the combination. Alan Shaw is right on at least one point - to get good dynamics out of these they need a decent amount of power. Thus, the Rogue, with 100 W. Of course, you will get sloppy bass and insufficient dynamics if you try to power them with 15W. Don't be fooled by the Rogue's low-ish price. The amps are great. Agree that Rogue tube amps sound much better than many people give them credit for.
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