Your thoughts about ATC loudspeakers

I have the same speakers as the last poster, and I agree that I can't hear anything problematic. I've read that there is a roll-off, but  that it's not detectable.

I have never noticed any deficit in the higher treble regions with my SCM40 V2s. I’ve had a several speakers in house at the same time with different tweeter designs (Klipsch Heresy IV, Zu Soul Supreme, Tannoy Cheviot, Tannoy XT8f, JBL 4367) and the ATC shows very well. Highs are smooth but not rolled off sounding to my ear.

Do ATC speakers have treble roll off or less extended sound vs metal domes or ribbons ?

Listened to the Quested v3110 today. Impressed. Soundstage. Depht. British sound. Flat to 30Hz. Smoother (or more even) than ATC (IMO). May very well be my next speaker/monitor soon.... Smaller size than expected. 750+150+150 built-in amps. 750 watts for a 10 inch woofer! It didn’t seem to move when playing Daft Punk "Contact" at a very high SPL. Try that!

and Shadorne , much as  I admire and perhaps emulate your level of fanboy enthusiasm for a different brand, for shock and awe we rely on Meyer ....

@sedgewick...with KXR and MXR Twenty, any ATC you pick, I would love to hear....you will be fine. Have fun. We run an Ayre in the studio and a Bryston in the mobile rack...all fun.
Jim

@ dragon_vibe

Can I just ask you what Quested monitors you have some experience from. I’m very tempted to bring the v3110 to my collection but maybe I should go for a bigger passive? Have the H108 since a year and would also say it presents music slightly different from the ATC SCM12 I compare it to (nearfield system with added subs). The term organic, whatever it stands for, seems to suite the H108 very well. They’re a joy to listen too. My main system is the ATC 150 ASL, sometimes only used for the basses in combination with different monitors.

My guess is -12 at 40Hz would match my small room reinforcement somewhat perfectly.. thanks for the comments. I will put these on my short list..

itzhak1969
I guess you could say ATC speakers like power, as greater dynamic range with low end = the need for higher system gain. However, last I looked, there are plenty of used Brystons and used PASS Labs and other excellent larger amplifiers available at very nice prices.

At low SPL levels they can function just fine on a smaller amplifier. Your perception of efficiency depends on the expected playback SPL level plus the amp you already own?

A small amp drives driver/horns quite loud but then there are the off axis response problems of this design as frequency goes up-a clear trade offs. Horns can have 90 degrees horizontal dispersion at 1.5K but collapse to 2 degrees or less horizontal at 15K. This makes for some very different reflections compared to the direct (on axis) sound and this can present some real challenges to imaging.

12/octave rolloff below useable LF is the preferred "performance goal" of an ATC loudspeaker design. If rolloff starts at 80Hz, its down -12 at 40Hz- (this is roughly what a SCM 19 does). Many bass reflex or other bass boost designs can have a big boost at 80Hz- which sounds like lots of bass- but then be down - 48dB at 40Hz. So the deep bass trade off is clearly obvious in this case.

So perhaps the awareness of the trade off is sufficient and then we get to choose the trade off we prefer?  It's not all good one way and not good the other as we all have different "wants".   

Brad

@shadorne
Thanks for your warm welcome and your good suggestions about potential causes of harshness. I am very excited to be a part of this community and looking forward to learn from all the good people here.

Whilst I do not want to open the can of worms and start another controversial topic - I would like to share that with my old speaker cable (MOGAMI), I never had this issue of harshness (maybe I was not getting the full dynamic spectrum). The speaker cables I am using currently are relatively new (very revealing) and may get better with some burn in. (Yes, I do believe in burn-in phenomenon). With professionally fitted connectors in this new cable, I am getting a lot better sound-staging, better gain (and some harshness). When I contacted the cable company, they also suggested to look into the source (as you also mentioned). All the tracks in question were downloaded from HDTracks, and one would expect 'quality'. I would know more in few days time. 


Thanks again!

@ssnkssnk   

Welcome to the forums. You can display photos of your system setup on this site. Harshness will be source dependent. The speakers are very revealing of the source. CD loudness wars have resulted in quite a lot of harsh sounding pop/rock.

I am aware that I am responding to an old post. But I wanted to share my experience with ATC SCM19 v2 speakers. I have had JBL, Klipsch, KEFs (including bookshelf LS50), B&W and DALI over the years. But these ATC 19 speakers are at different league all together. I am running them (95% of the time) with  Benchmark DAC3 > Benchmark AHB2 (100watts). I have a small listening area, and speakers are placed 3 inches from the front wall. They are extremely musical, fantastic sound stage (although limited in my smaller setup), non-fatiguing and accurate sounding speakers I ever had. I listen to classical, vocals, rock and these speakers can play them all the way it should be played. Tonally they sound extremely balanced (although sometimes, I do get a bit of harshness at higher frequencies).

These speakers play very well with my 100watts amp (even at lower volumes), but are able to produce a bit more fuller sound with amps with higher wattage. I use them with my other  amps - such Parasound A21 & Cambridge Audio 851W. But I play them most of the time with my 100 watts amp, and never felt anything lacking from the music.

Just my 2 cents. 

My passive SCM40 V2 passive sound great at low to moderate volumes and render bass very accurately and powerfully down to the lower limit of the woofers. I must have bought a good pair. 

;)

Go active! ATC speakers are wonderful at high volumes but they are not good at low volumes. Passive versions are even worse. If you want to have passive speakers I would check out PMC twenty.5 series. Phenomenal tweeter and a very fast transmissonline bass. They do low volumes much better. The ATC SCM40 doesn't have much quality bass, 2-way PMC would be the better choice in my opinion. If you go active consider the all digital GRIMM Audio LS1be. Best speaker I have heard with a good price / performance ratio - again better at lower volumes than ATC.

I’ve happily lived with a pair of ATC scm300A towers for the last 12 years. There really is nothing like a pair of large active speakers in a large room, able to crank up the volume to over 110db at the listening position 20ft from the speakers. They don’t just produce music, they create a complete musical event, whether at rock stadium levels or at more modest levels. Given room to breathe, they image surprisingly well for such a wide baffled speaker, giving a spectacularly realistic central image with sound emanating well past the speaker boundaries. Depth is very good, but not outstanding. Musicality is stunning providing they are fed by quality sources, I use an EmmLabs transport/dac feeding an Ayre KXR 20 preamp. But after 12 years with these babies, I feel the urge to try something else. I tried a pair of passive Vivid g2’s, but they surprisingly sounded totally underwhelming in my room, perhaps the Spirits would do the job, but they actually sounded rather clinical and fatiguing even with Ayre MXR20 or Bryston 28b3 monoblocks. So where next, well, in a few weeks I’ve got a pair of the ATC’s direct competitors in for a home dem, a pair of PMC MB2 XBD actives, they’ve only got twin 12” bass drivers vs the ATC’s twin 15” units, but I’ll be interested in whether the transmission line bass loading of the PMCs vs ported for the ATC’s competes. I’ve never heard a TL speaker, so this is gonna be interesting. Similar tweeters, similar mid units, but totally different bass loading. I’ll keep you posted

I'm using a Bryston BP25 and benchmark dac1 along with a velodyne dd18.  It's a very unsuperstitious solid state system and I'm not complaining about it at all.  It's exactly what I wanted.  I'm just saying that I think most people like a system that isn't completely accurate.  Whether it's boom and sizzle or the tube midrange, color is popular.  I think a boosted treble and low end will sound better than flat to a lot of people who listen at low volume. 

@jon_5912

What at are you using as a source and preamp with the Active 110?

A tube preamp will warm up ATC as they simply reproduce what is fed to them...very faithful to the source.

Good point JB. Only speakers that have  non flat frequency responses sound good at low levels.

The ATC speakers are truthful and we have created amazing sound in our store on a 40w Naim Atom which played more than loud enough for most clients.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Modest volume listening is always compromised at the frequency extremes and is not everyone’s cup of tea. The ATC SCM 40 mk2  do it as well, or better, than any loudspeakers I’ve owned.

I wonder if the new tweeter has made a difference in how they sound at lower volumes.  I also wonder if they are voicing their home models more for moderate/low volume listening.  I've got a pair of active 110s that are definitely at their best when played fairly loudly.  It makes sense for speakers that are flat to sound the most realistic when they are played at a volume that is close to that of live music.  Since most people listen at lower than live volumes I think speakers that tip the bass and treble up a little bit sound better.  

Based upon more listening to my recently acquired passive SCM40 mk2s I remain very impressed by how they portray music at modest volume. The clarity is outstanding, from acoustic/electric bass at the bottom though cymbals at the top. I mainly listen to acoustic jazz, and both instruments and voices are as faithful to their real life counterparts as I can expect from a music reproduction system.

I believe those who say ATC loudspeakers really shine at higher volumes. Just want to add my grist to the mill for others who listen at modest volumes, so as to encourage them to consider the brand when in the market for loudspeakers.

I have had my scm 19 v2's for over a year...they are honest no colored up sounding...sometimes it could use 'candy colored'...these are the most honest sounding stand mounts ive had...

Hej

Just wanna say that I’ve had the ATC SCM 19v2 for about three years now. They are 20 cm from backwall and 230 cm from listening position. Room size about 3,9 x 4,5 m. Amp is an old tube amp (EL84 push-pull) with 35w. I`m usually listening at low to normal listening volume. Volume pot never higher than 10 o`clock so there is still more power to use (without distorsion, I`ve checked). Fatigue? Yes, with very bad recordings.

This speakers and this amp sounds wonderful together IMHO😀

Regards

Staffan

I didn't go with the 30.1 at the time cause I listen to mostly live concerts and a good amount electronic music.  I felt the C7 were a more of a all around speaker and more my style in sound.   Rock, jazz, blues, and classical are all great too!  Plus even at low levels they sound great.  I agree they really do sound better with a ss amp and pre.  The definition of the sound wasn't as mushy as with tubes.  Not to say a tube amp wouldn't be great I just know what I heard.   I found the Atc speakers to even be more finicky with matching amps and preamp.  My Mac ss sounds great with my C7, but I heard atc 40's with Mac gear I found them dull.  This is probably why many atc owners say to go active rather than passive.  

Keoliphant, we sell the ATC and just took in mint pair of Harbeth C7 in trade towards the ATC SCM 19V2.

Here is the take on both speakers, first you do not want an overly warm amp with Harbeths, Harbeths are polite speakers in the treble. 

As per the ATC they are more dynamic, with a more life like sound, the Harbeths are more laid back perspective in the treble with a richer midrange.

We do not agree with Keoliphant the ATC sound great at all volumes, the issue with ATC is that many people like to play them loud as they do not compress and just get louder without compression. 

Low volume playback is all about a system's total resolution. 

If you like a rich laid back sound then Harbeths are your poison, if you favor a sound which mirrors real life the ATC are the better speaker.

If you like find wooden cabinets Harbeths are much prettier.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Thanks for the responses - I've been wanting to try Harbeths for awhile now and your responses definitely help get me to pull the trigger. I believe the BHK's would be a nice match...they have a tube input stage which warms them up nicely.

Now to figure out if I go c7es3 or M30.2!!! Any thoughts?

@keoliphant

At lower volumes Harbeth is a great choice even with SS. ATC are bone crunching dynamic at louder SPL with SS but at lower volumes (if that is mostly what you are after for an office) then I would advise a warm traditional style tube preamp to warm them up but definitely SS power amp to drive them. KEF is similar to ATC - fairly neutral. Harbeth sound really good at low volume - they have almost a tube warmth to them in the bass (so not the last word in bass but great for casual listening at lower volume - think BBC classical radio all day )

I am not familiar with how warm the BHK preamp sounds. I see both BHK pre and monos are MOSFET output which will have no problem with ATC but probably won’t be as warm as a conventional tube amp with autotransformer.

@keoliphant You can’t go wrong with Harbeth c7es3! I love mine! I was also looking at atc 19’s but something was lacking for me!   Good luck! 

We are both displaying Kef and ATC dealers if you have any particular questions give us a call.

We also sell Elac, Paradigm, Kef Reference, and Quad. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I'm interested in the SCM19V2's for my office setup. Currently KEF LS50's with PS Audio BHK 300 monos, BHK preamplifier, and Directstream DAC. 

Overall, I'm happy with the sound but the KEF's are my system's weak spot. I'm looking for more speaker dynamics at low and medium volumes, better sound staging (if possible), and better bass.

Any thoughts on the SCM19V2's for (1) near-field listening or (2) putting them close to my back wall?

Better speaker options? I was thinking Harbeth Compact 7's, Dynaudio Contour 20, and KEF Reference 1's. I think the sealed ATC's or Harbeths would be best since they'll be close to the back wall. Plus the KeF and Dynaudio's are far deeper speakers.

I'm mostly into Willie/Merle, acoustic/folk, chamber, jazz...5% rock!

Thanks!Ken 

I just added the SCM40 v2 to my system. I find them very enjoyable at low to modest volume, sounding lively and with superbly articulate bass. They really immerse me into the music. My Naim Uniti (80w@8, 155w@4) drives them effortlessly at my preferred listening levels. The soundscape belies their relatively compact size.

I am currently waiting for a pair of SCM19V2 to arrive.  I will be driving them with a Norma IPA 140, which is a damn fine amp.  With regard to contenders: I am selling my ML Ethos, though brilliant, because I am more accustomed to smaller boxes where the images have a better chance of being 'seen' in a virtual soundstage.  I have had Spendor D7s, which were also great, but not particularly dynamic.  I found that I could not live with the Harbeth 7es3 because I was too aware of cabinet resonance with some material.  Sonus Faber Amator M was a very nice-sounding speaker, but my room has problems with rear-firing ports.  I wish there were better videos on Youtube of the 19s.  The ones with the speakers on the cabinet are anathema.  Anyway, I bought the ATCs because I want smooth treble, neutral, realistic mids and tight, controlled bass.  From all of my reading, I think that I have made the right choice. 

I will keep you posted once they are in my system.   

I've heard SCM 19v2 speakers driven by a 30 watt Pass amp and a preamp with adequate gain. They went plenty loud for most listening and sounded mighty nice.

I was driving ATC SCM 40 V2s with a 10 year old Rotel RB-1090 Amplifier which cost me $895 here on the Gon.  

400 wpc into 8 ohms.  That Rotel owned the ATCs.

Plenty of good values in used high power amps, would not sweat that issue.

This idea that ATC is "not easy to drive" is an opinion, not fact.  The fact is its quite easy to drive for the impedance curve does not drop down low as is the case with large number of passives.  A reasonable amplifier can drive them fine.  A large amplifier can drive them fine too.

ATC makes an 150W/ch amp themselves (P1) - costs $4k. Uses the same design as their 3 way active amp packs.    Unless 4K is a cost no object price point?  
Brad

I really don't know where this information comes from, "not easy to drive".  ATC has a very consistent impedance curve, does not drop down to super low impedance like many other systems do.  Efficiency in the full range sealed box category, say BBC monitor type where 82dB was acceptable, 85-86dB seems rather good.  I see a lot of misinformation about ATC in the hi fi forums, not sure why.   Probably because the factory never posts!

Brad     

I just listened to the 40's the other day and they sounded very good with a bat amp.  Did not care for them with a Mac amp they sounded dead.  It was the mc301.   I felt the 19 really lacked after hearing the 40's.  I also went to two other stores and listened to Monitor Audio Silvers thru a MC9000 and they sounded good. They also sounded good with the primaluna amp and pre. Then I went to one more store and checked out the Harbeth speakers. The 40.2 was great, but way out of my range.  14 thousand for the pair.  Then I checked out slh5 plus, since thy are supposedly a great all around speaker, but I found the new super tweeter to bright.  Finally the speakers that blew me away were the 7es3 and the M 30.1.  Both were excellent and definitely more musical than the Atc speakers.  The 7es3 have a little more base and relaxing mods.  The M30.1 had less bass but better miss and treble.  A sliver more detailed.  I'll probably go wth the 7es3, since I focus on live music.  The 30.1 supposedly for classical and jazz, but live concerts also sounded great.  I think it's just preference in what you like.  The Harbeth speakers with all paired with a Cary amp and Cary pre with tubes.  The Rogue Cronus integrated wasn't  good with Harbeth imo.   Even though many like them.  The Cary audio was definitely better than the Rogue.   Plus the 7es3 is like 2000 dollars less than m30.1 and 2300 cheaper than the Atc40scm.  I'm gonna check my friends mac here when I do get the speakers.  If I like the Mac sound then I'll probably get a mc152 amp and c2600 pre or a c52.    Hopefully this helped! 

My philosophy is to build the most accurate system possible and then if there are situations where I want to deviate from neutral for one reason or another, deal with that separately.  You can get a digital equalizer that can be used to improve low volume playback.  You could get a syrupy sounding tube pre, or maybe just a tube buffer, if you have things you like to listen to that way.  There's nothing wrong with changing things when you want a different sound, but if you start with something that is pretty far from neutral it'll be hard to guess what will happen if further color is added.

@drubin

ATC are voiced for realistic live music levels. So turned down to levels of a TV or a radio and they will sound anemic in bass (see equal loudness curves). You can of course simply boost the bass at low levels and it will sound great.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

ATC bass is not resonant like some ported designs and this means bass will not be boosted or bloated even when cranked.

ATC help sound engineers design the mixing to sound good at a loudness level that suits the music. Obviously the normal loudness listening level is different for various genres. Anything intended to be listened to at moderate to low levels needs a bass boost and anything intended to be listened to at Rock highest levels needs to have less bass.

If you always listen moderately or softly then much of the benefit of ATC massive drivers (that are low distortion even at high SPL) is going to be wasted or remain unused. Our ears can handle a huge dynamic range and much of the detail can only be entirely heard at realistic levels. If you play at a maximum of 80 dB SPL at the listener then you have around a max of 40 to 50 dB dynamic range audibly available above the noise floor. If you play such that the highest sounds are 110 dB SPL then you have an additional 30 dB of audible detail that was not available at low listening levels. It is key to understand that by cranking it you are able to hear a further 30 dB below the noise floor at a soft level and only a very robust over-engineered design of speaker can deliver this. Large ATC are like 70 dB down in 2nd and third harmonic distortion throughout the mid range - this is very clean and this is why the SCM 40 will sound clearer than the 19 which has the 3 inch mid grafted onto a 6 inch woofer.

I'm the OP of this thread and I'm pleased that it's yielded an enduring, informed discussion. As for me, I remain interested in ATC but have not made a move. One concern that's emerged for me is whether ATC speakers do well at low volume listening. Some don't, as you know, and that could be a non-starter for me. I'm also interested in the comparison between the v19 and the v40. My local dealer prefers the 19; however, he uses a subwoofer with both models, which I am not likely to do. Anyone compared the two?

@dragon_vibe

@itzhak1969

Agreed. Good points.

ATC tend to go well with big Bryston amps or amps around the 200+ watt range. Definitely not suitable for anything under about 150 watt tube amps like big Audio Research or Macintosh amps.

ATC active amps are solid state with MOSFET output stages and biased such that they are Class A to 2/3 power. So active ATC is really the best way to go with this particular brand. And this brand is best avoided by those folks who prefer to drive their speakers with tubes or those who want more personal control over the sound.

And there is No Best Speaker suited to everyone! Only the best speaker for each individual within the context of their preferences, requirements and experience. One can only say that ATC are a world class speaker chosen by many (but not all) golden eared professionals with rather specific musical requirements for a truthful presentation that allows for ease of important mix/mastering decisions of the source master tapes/files.

ATC speakers in general are not easy to drive (unless you’re buying their active version ) buying their pasive speakers can get you to a serious problem because hungry wats speakers require powerfull amplification and this cost money, a lot of money.If cost is no object ATC can be excellent choice but most of us have a limited budget so we have no choice but to look for other brands with more efficient speakers.

Well anyway, If your a Solid State guys than ATC is an excellent speaker as long as you have large amplifiers to sufficiently drive them. They are truly excellent speakers but require very good amplification. Iv never tried Class A Solid State amps on ATC.....Wish I did.

I was once a Solid State guy, moved to SET, Push & Pull than OTL. Once i went OTL I never looked back at other Tube Amplification simply because I found OTL just did everything right. Their are issues running OTL and one of the major aspect was they can not run low Impedance speakers very well. So your stuck with a limited type of speakers.

Their are always trade-offs in this hobby, we just have to understand which area we can easily compromise as acceptability.

I never consider any speaker as THE BEST.....this hobby all comes down to personal taste and listening preference.

Living with a easy to drive speaker just gives one more flexibility to move around amplifiers time to time. At the end of the day we all get that upgrade itch at sometime. Their is no such thing as Destination Audio. Its a constant evolving process. Something I learnt painfully.

It is not about Surgical transparency for me anymore. I want to  be emotionally connected to the music. The emotions that stir within us during the listening session is the magical experience I'm after.

From experience in the pro world, a manufacturer/distributor like me has to play it absolutely straight on forums; never BS, no politics, zero opinion about anyone else's gear that competes with yours and actually try to share what you know that can help others.  Speaking about design values that are hidden, or product features that are misunderstood or clarifying facts is OK if its helpful or relevant to the thread.  But it is not welcome when its clothed in verbal advertising.  So responding to incorrect facts asserted by posters about ATC is OK, but saying its better than XYZ is not OK.  Responding to someone who expresses an opinion that they do not like ATC is not OK.  Any assertion as  manufacturer/distributor of my opinion about ATC or any other brand is not allowed.  Note my posts to dragon_vibe are focused completely on features/values that are not supported with facts, incorrect or misstated.  No response to his opinion, which is 100% OK- because we all have opinions about "what is the best" in all kinds of things.  Its completely OK for someone to like Quested or PMC more, heck the people that import that stuff are my friends!     

I have no problem with dealers talking about the brands they sell.  You'd expect them to be knowledgeable about them and since they picked them they should be enthusiastic as well.  As long as they're not hiding anything what's the problem?  

It is true that ATC passives need a bit more power, the average sensitivity is 85-86dB 1 w/1m. This is because as a driver designer you have a choice: more efficiency, or more low end. ATC does NOT use transmission lines, passive drivers or other devices for serious low end support, as the roll off after such device is severe. But it is true dragon vibe, loudspeakers are an endless series of trade offs and ATC has chosen sealed box type (slow roll off) low end performance over efficiency.

Brad

Yes this is what I felt about both speakers, overall on the matters of bass I still liked the Quested, for mids I still like the Quested again. The Biggest Point was Quested worked with Tube Amplifiers and the mids was more holographic and lucid with Tubes amps in the mix.

I can easily swap out different Amps, With the ATC I was stuck with Solid States only. So Pick your poison as no speaker is perfect!

ATC transmission line bass seemed slightly! lacking to me, it was tighter/faster but lacking to some sense it would NOT fill in the bottom end properly on certain musical genres only.

The Quested by comparison just felt a little more satisfying, but did not have that last ounce of definition that the ATC produced.

The Quested would fill in the bottom end better and give a better low level energy at the cost of losing some definition. This overall for me worked out better as I don’t sit around listening to audiophile recordings.

I would give the ATC mids a slight nod to details as comparison to Quested or PMC. I wish I could have tried the Tubes on ATC this may have slightly change its character but none of my tube amps worked well.

When it came to playing Music and using Tubes amplification from OTL Amplifiers to Push and Pull. The Quested just worked with everything very well.