after having a 10k bender in Vegas i would sober up and spend the balance of avalons. i would remember the weekend long after i tired of 'any' speakers.
With $20,000 in your hand, what speaker would you
I've recently gone into retirement. I am a 52-year-old diehard audiophile. I've had just about every statement level speaker the American market has offered over the last 10 to 15 years. The speaker I have found the most satisfying overall is my presently owned modified pair of Maggie 3.6R. I've also had their 20s and started with the Mg 3A. for my second favorite speaker I would have to pick the Avalon radian HC, and not the Eidolon( I had problems with the ceramic midrange distorting with dynamic vocals and the base was not perfect). I had dozens and dozens of conventional and electrostatic speakers so many I could bore you with the list. So let's just say I've been around the block a few times.
Let's assume that I made no mistakes meeting the speakers with the proper equipment, power conditioning and acoustical environment treatment. I have been mostly a tube person but I switched over to the new passlabs equipment because I found that I am
the equivalent sound or better than my reference tube amplifiers, without the heartbreaking experience of blowing up and $2000 tube replacements.(As I said I am retired now, I can't afford the maintenance fees anymore.
What I'm asking of my fellow audiophiles that have been listening with reference great audio systems is that they e-mail me back and give me their opinion on what conventional loudspeaker they would own if they had say $20,000 or so to spend(20,000 retail). Semi-full range down to say 35 Hz or so.
I'm going to keep the Maggies but, they don't feel the need when it comes to wanting a more compact/dynamic speaker that I could also drive with my Belcanto SET. Although, they don't need to be ultra efficient.
I would really appreciate anybody's input, I would find all of your input invaluable in making my decision.
by the way what do you all think of the Grand Veena 3A speaker. Is it better than anything for under $20-$30,000?
Thank you very much for all of your help,
Regards,
Andrew
thanks again,
Andy
PS I am still keeping the Maggies.
Let's assume that I made no mistakes meeting the speakers with the proper equipment, power conditioning and acoustical environment treatment. I have been mostly a tube person but I switched over to the new passlabs equipment because I found that I am
the equivalent sound or better than my reference tube amplifiers, without the heartbreaking experience of blowing up and $2000 tube replacements.(As I said I am retired now, I can't afford the maintenance fees anymore.
What I'm asking of my fellow audiophiles that have been listening with reference great audio systems is that they e-mail me back and give me their opinion on what conventional loudspeaker they would own if they had say $20,000 or so to spend(20,000 retail). Semi-full range down to say 35 Hz or so.
I'm going to keep the Maggies but, they don't feel the need when it comes to wanting a more compact/dynamic speaker that I could also drive with my Belcanto SET. Although, they don't need to be ultra efficient.
I would really appreciate anybody's input, I would find all of your input invaluable in making my decision.
by the way what do you all think of the Grand Veena 3A speaker. Is it better than anything for under $20-$30,000?
Thank you very much for all of your help,
Regards,
Andrew
thanks again,
Andy
PS I am still keeping the Maggies.
185 responses Add your response
Pass labs are no good with sound labs. Total wrong combo. Trust me, I have tired this. Be forewarned that Pass stuff can damage speakers. (it has happened to me) I wouldn't trust them with $20,000 speakers unless woofers are easy to get and replace and you like doing this type of thing. Really, if you have speakers you like, stick with them because the only thing that has happened in the last 15 years in quality has gone down and prices are up 3-4 times for junk. |
Acollen, I second the above recommendation on V2. Having quite a similar path as yourself in that I too had started my earlier days with amongst others an MG3a in the early 80's, and lived with the MG20.1 for a period of 3yrs a couple of years back (Incidentally am also a converted die-hard tube-o-holics). After having gotten used to planar's sound, there's just not many options in boxes design for me, Magico happens to be one that I could live (more than) happily after my planar/stats years. |
If you've been chasing this 'sound' for 10-15 years and have not found it - your quest is about the chase not about ending it. My opinion is that you'll never find what you think you're looking for because your quest is not about satisfaction, it's about the quest. Spend your money on tickets to live shows in decent halls. Pick the finest halls in the world, take the wife or a friend and enjoy live music in a proper setting. Go places you've never been, hear LIVE voices. Share the love, man. take home a memory, not another piece of gear you'll be looking to liquidate for pennies on the dollar in a few years. I sat through Il Travatore last night in a mediocre hall with a slightly sub-par orchestra and it kicked the s#@t out of any stinkin' record. And best of all, I took the wife, we had a meal, we talked about how insanely complicated the plot was. Bottom line - I have something more than vinyl, or shellac, or tubes for the rest of my life to treasure. Fear not, I love vinyl, and shellac and tubes, but they don't make the world go around. That's my two cents and worth every penny I assure you. |
Argument? Nah..far from it, waste of time. Am actually just curious of how you came about to your previously mentioned conclusion. With reference to your experience however, I believe Magico as being the more neutrally balanced and revealing speakers amongst the three, would/should have fared better given electronics of more commensurate quality. Anyway, thanks again for sharing. |
Bvdiman I dont wan't to start or participate in ay kind of argument. I know there are many people who beieve mgicos are untouchable, Jonathin Valin at his Avguide blog practicslly csme to blows with someone whodisagreed with him about the magicos, and I am not going to waste my time in any kind of debate. I rarely post at all so as not get embroiled in arguments. That beinf said, I believe the Magico was being driven by a plinius amp. The klimpts were being deiven by a larger audio research amp, which was on e of their d series solid state amps. The Sonus fabers were beibg driven by a 20 year old levinson. Both the SF and VA speakers wer sensarional, but I thought the bas and the sound stage depth was better on th klmpt. This was one of the best sounding demos I have ever heard, espescially since I was looking for a cheaper pair of speakers but wasmesmerized by the sound of the klimpt. To me the meagicos sounded less like real music, they din;t do anything wrong, but agftger 5 minutes I got bored and went to listen to the klimpt until I had to leave. I ended up buying the Final sound speakers I recommended. These are my own speaker which I payed,for me, a lot of money, so you should disregard any praise for them, except to trealize tha I spent twice as much for them as the pair here is on sale for, so that must mean I like them. Honestly, I should have saved my money for my kids, but I do feel that I got the best speakers I could ever need or afford. Despite my fear in saying so,(please don't hit me Jonathan Valin) I thought they sounded better than the magicos for what I like , and they fit my room and lifestyle better(my wife accepts their looks). Are they a great speaker? For me they, for anyone else only they can say. |
Rgcards: For floorstanders that might need more power I heard the new vienna acoustics klimpt last week and I though the were much better than magico v3 at the same dealer, and also better although in adifferent way than sonus faber elippsa. < A very interesting sweeping remarks here, Rg can you please elaborate a little on equipments/ancillaries used during the audition and in what obvious ways were the Vienna "much better" than the later two?? Also what system you yourself are currently running at home to better understand where you are coming from. Thanks. |
It seems from reading your post that you are looking for compact speaker's to be driven by a moderate power amp. If that is the casethere are a number ofmonitors people like. For floorstanders that might need more power I heard the new vienna acoustics klimpt last week and I though the were much better than magico v3 at the same dealer, and also better although in adifferent way than sonus faber elippsa. But if yor willing to experiment and think outside the box, there is a pair of final sound 1000i speakers with sub woofers for 5700 delivered on sale now. Buy then, listent to them and decide. Surely yo could sell them for close to that if you don't like them. Im betting you will love to have the speaker and 15,000 more in your retirement account |
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Avalons just sounded very unique and different to me when I heard them. So if I had the bucks, I would want to give another listen to see what it was really all about. I do not recall dynamics as being the thing that made them sound different. It was either tonality/voicing, detail/resolution or perhaps some combination of both. Not sure. Just know that they were different enough to make me take notice. I liked the unique cabinet shape and design as well. |
IMHO, The Avalons can't compare with Sound Labs or MBL. What speakers have those on this site heard, actually heard, to make the statements they have made? Those of us who have encountered the "Best of the Best", realize that there are but a handful of those Best and few, without agendas are mentioned with regularity. I've heard the Avalons at their best, and they're very good--I've heard the Wilsons at their BEST, and they're very good, I've heard virtually all the favored speakers which are mentioned here--but very few enter the sanctified realm of MBL or (not as dynamic) Sound Labs. Why, other than agenda do people push others? Now, to be fair the M5's that Valin is currently riding may be that good, I haven't heard, but understand from 'little inside voices that they are', that hey are very good. More later. |
I would audition a pair of Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8's. I just ordered my pair today and I found out that they have dropped the price to about $22,400. I am paying $23,400 ( I am ordering a special color). I have been told that they are coming out with a new speaker this summer. Interesting. Where'd you hear this bjbcab? |
Whatever Shindos I might buy for $20000 is another I might consider. Can $20000 buy a pair of Shindos with the field coil drivers? I don't know if they'd fit in my house but I would sure love to audition a pair of Jadis Eurythmies as well. Their design and appearance truly make a unique statement. The Audiokinesis speaks just caught my attention also thanks to Tvad. I'd kind of like to hear them also. They would seemingly leave some change as well starting with $20000. |
Andy, The Watt Puppies are a classic but you might go for a 7 used. The 8's may give you some of the compression problems you mentioned that you had with the Avalon Eidolons. If you look at measurements the 7th plot down from the top you can see significant compression at 95 db SPL. As I mentioned, this is common to consumer designs (designed for homes) and not at all a unique problem to the 8's or your Avalon Eidolons... this is why I suggested earlier on this thread that you look at speakers with pro drivers if you plan listen loudly to music with large dynamic range. |
I really agree with Jj2468 Jeff's plan. This approach makes a lot of sense to me, and would make the whole experience one of learning and "ear-opening" revelations. You may fall in love with a $ 5000.00 pair of speakers, and have 15 grand left over for a beautiful vacation. Good Luck, Happy Listenig, and Happy Hunting !! |
I'd like to suggest a little different approach. Since you are going into retirement, why not make an enjoyable journey out of it? I'm not sure a punch list of everybody's favorite will be of much help. FWIW, here is free advice and we know what free advice is worth. Well, these days paid advice may not be much better. Think about which "types" of speakers you have enjoyed and go hear a couple of models in each "type" and commit to not pulling the trigger until you are done with your survey. And add a couple of new "types" in case you surprise yourself. For example, listen to a) a couple of single driver speakers or high efficiency speakers, b) a couple of two way monitor box speakers, c) a couple of multi-driver box speakers, d) a couple of planar speakers and e) a couple of dipole speakers. Maybe add a horn speaker. IMHO, most models within a "type" will share similar characteristics. But, of course, there will be standouts within each "type" and you may like a model from more than one "type". But, it will be very unusual for, say a multi-driver box speaker, to sound like a single driver or planar speaker. And since you have been doing this for some time, you probably already have a good idea about what "type" of speaker you like. Once you narrow that down, listen to more speakers within that "type" and suggestions within that "type" will yield more useful information (I think). Last, given diminishing returns, there is no warranty that a $20,000 speaker will appeal to you more than a speaker half that price. Use your maggies during this enjoyable, yet imperfect, journey. IMHO. YMMV. etc. Jeff |
This is an easy question - add two grand to the budget and get a pair of B&W 800Ds. For the money, the best all-around speaker in its price class. Many speakers will do SOME things better than the 800D, but no speaker I've listened to in this price range, and I've heard a lot of speakers, offers better overall performance to my ears. If you want to save six grand and put it back in the retirement fund, get a pair of B&W 802Ds, which provide about 95% of the performance of the 800Ds, and is the best overall speaker in the $15K and under category. Better than the Wilson Sophia II, better than the Magico V3 (which costs almost double), better than the Revel Ultima Studio, better than all those "trendy" speakers that paid-advertising supported reviewers love these days. But the most important thing is to listen for yourself. Ask 30 different people and you'll get 30 different answers. It's good to use these as reference, but the only person using your ears is YOU, and in the end, those are the only ears that matter. Good luck and have fun in finding your dream speaker. |
A quick scan didn't show any Sound Labs mentioned. For that kind of money, if you have the room (partly a wifely funcion), I would at least make the time to hear the equivalent of the A-3 Sound Labs. They are remarkably clean, fast and have completely acceptable bass (for my taste), even in a very, very large room. Paired with Halcro Stereo amp, which offered 150 WPC. Sweet...very sweet. |
