i'm still trying to figure out the logic behind spending $40,000 for a system to reproduce the sound of a $200 guitar through a $400 amp with a $100 microphone and some cheap cords, into a $1000 console and onto an $8 dat tape that is recorded on a $300 player (total cost of around $2100) "as it was heard in the studio". why on earth should it take astronomical amounts of money to "hear the instruments as if they were in the room", when you could probably have the musicians flown to the room you are in to play for about 1/100th the cost? |
|
Oh, this is too much fun.
I knew a guy once, who also thought he would save money and just fly musicians to his room. But problems came up:
* The London Symphony Orchestra kept objecting to the brass section having no room to play but in the garage, not to mention the bassoonist having to setup on the kitchen counter tops
* Most major religions were objecting to his trying to fly Jimi in
* His wife threatened to divorce him if he flew Diana Krall in one more time
* He had a tendncy to listen in the nude
* A favorite blues musician loved to eat beans... lots of beans
* Everytime he wanted to hear 'Start Me Up' by the Stones it cost him a cool million, and he was starting to wonder if he was really saving money
-----------
OK, To answer the thread question: Almost every major manufacturer has a player these days in your price range - most of them these days are quite good, but they are all quite different from each other.
Burmester (German)
MBL (German)
Audio Aero (French)
Meitner (Canadian, but I know there is a Spanish importer)
Audio Note U.K.
Ensemble (Swiss)
There are a number of Japanese players, not sure you get these:
Reimyo
Esoteric
I am sure I am forgetting many...
Enjoy your search!
Mike. |
With that budget I'd be sorely tempted to blow it all on the Reimyo CDP-777 (on reputation only as I've never heard it). But not until I'd auditioned the Accustic Arts CD player first for about half as much. It's one smooth operator and German to boot so it definitely meets your Euro Qualification. |
At that price you may want to look at separate transports and digital converters (DAC).
On Stvncar's separate issue.... it is also the case of record companies and/or music performers building a perfect multi-million dollar, multi-track recording studio; only to have the young buyer listen to the the music highly compressed on an iPod with some cheap earphones. |
I will get a chance to listen to an Accuphase DP-57 in a few weeks when my dealer gets one in, but from what I read in the Absolute Sound it seems like it doesen't do anything wrong. They are about 4900.00 new. You could save alot because technology changes really fast. |
to sugarbrie:
while i agree there are some studios that spend tons of money to get incredible quality recordings, the bottom line is that the vast majority of pop, country, rock, etc. listeners will do as you said, listen on ipods or relatively inexpensive and not so great quality equipment. the music is geared towards selling to the masses. so again, how is spending $40k supposed to make rush or pink floyd sound so much better as to justify the cost? i would also venture to guess that $38k of that $40k is markup anyway. i used to sell audio equipment and know the wholesale/retail ratios in general. the other question is--and i'll preface this by saying that some equipment to me clearly sounds better than other equipment--is it really better sound or our perception of what we would consider better sound that makes us purchase these expensive pieces? |
Ccereda, at the moment I'm writing this response I'm listening to my system with an Ensemble transport and the Accustic Arts DAC1 MK3 as the digital front end.
I believe that if you go to a thread I started entitled: Reference DACS/ An overall perspective, it will give you good information regarding the different "flavors" of DACS and CDPS. I have auditioned CDPS from both Ensemble and Accustic Arts, along with Reimyo and non-upsampling players, and many are really terrific, but do offer different perspective on the music event.
That's way personnal taste and system synergy mandate home auditions if possible to find what's best for your ears'. I think the Ensemble CDP offers some of the best sound on redbook cd and can be gotten, at least here in the U.S. because of problems with having an importer, for around $4000.00 American dollars, which I think is a great deal. |
I wish I could help you with some recomendations and would like to say have fun in your search, and also sorry that such a lame brain like Stvncar has to bother this thread. |
I am very happy with the EMM labs DCC2/CDSD combo. Might be a tad over budget, but you could do without a preamp... |
i'm still trying to figure out the logic behind spending $40,000 for a system to reproduce the sound of a $200 guitar through a $400 amp with a $100 microphone and some cheap cords, into a $1000 console and onto an $8 dat tape that is recorded on a $300 player (total cost of around $2100) "as it was heard in the studio". Jeeze man, not everyone listens to demo-cd's from start-up bands! Where are you coming up with those figures? So are you suggesting the poster should limit their listening to an 8-track player in a 72 Gremlin, and save themselves the $40K for a one-time appearance by their favorite one-man band...Although I'm quite sure $40K isn't enough to be enticing an established performer to come out to East Jesus, as you suggest, to play a single private gig for one person's shits and giggles. And do you really think the one-time thrill would be THAT exciting? I think it may be a bit awkward to say the least, having your favorite performer in your living room playing just for you. Talk about overloading your room too! I don't think it does necessarily "take astronomical amounts of money to hear the instruments as if they were in the room". That's kind of the attraction of this hobby. You can get pretty impressive reproduction for not allot of coin. Obviously that's a relative amount. You are not ever going to get a system to truly reproduce the sound of a live performance in your room. The fact that you can even come close is the carrot on the stick that folks who love music are willing to throw money at. The more money you have to spare, the more you'll be able to spend if you so desire. Pretty simple if you ask me. The reason a person would want to have their system sound close to what it may sound like if, say, you were able to raise the dead and get John Lee Hooker to come play in your living room, is that, well, that is a pretty damn amazing experience. Moving to say the least, especially if you like his music. Scary if you were actually able to get John Lee back from the dead...even more so if you could do it any time of the day or night at the push of a few buttons and the turn of a knob or two. Hey, wait a minute, you can! You can also bring the "sound" of a full orchestra in a world-class hall into a 13X20 foot room, or even between your ears with a pair of headphones. Pretty cool stuff! Marco |
Dear Stvncar:
Please the thread is about suggestions to look for a CD player.
You disagree with what I am doing, fine, so what?
I find that the best sound is given, unfortunately, by expensive equipment. this it is my problem not yours.
So, please, do not keep posting. Open your own therad and have your endless theoretical usless discussion until the end of your days (do not discuss too loud I will be listening to my favourite music).
Just for your info my sistem is worth more than 40 K, but a good piano is worth much more than my system, and takes more room, and I don't know how to play it, and Rubistein insists in smoking in my house.
Are you serious? read your answer and think BUT do not answer me.
_______________
FOR EVERYBODY ELSE:
Thank you. You gave me some nice homework.
Dear Mike, you are very wrong I put the BPO in my garden and was fine... Only that the 1º violin went a little upset when it rained over his Stradivarius and the neighbour was rally annoyed when we fired the guns durig the overture 1812 ;-)).
And Eliane Elias is even prettier than Diana Krall |
ccreda:
sorry about the $40k analogy--it was a generalization, not directed specifically at you. i just think the markup on electronics is way too high, and resale values tend to prove me right in general. yes, there are some really excellent recordings and studios out there. i was just soliciting commentary on the reasons for spending lots of money on equipment. best of luck with the player.
ejlif:
the fact that you resort to 6th grade name calling shows your intelligence level. |
Mark-ups on Audio equipment are NOT all that high. That is crap propogated by cheapskates who refuse to buy new equipment or to pay Retail or anything close to it based on their erroneous assumption that mark-ups are "high".
You pay much higher relative prices on the clothing you wear and the food you eat every day. |
Ccereda,
I'm surprised that if you can afford -- not just pay for -- a $14K CD player you don't just fly to NYC and buy whatever you want. Why limit yourself to european avaiability? I assume you're independently wealthy with no need to work, so taking the time to visit the Manhatten showrooms to listen would be the best way to go.
db |
markups in general are extremely high. rule of thumb is the production cost is about 20% of the retail cost. a dealer marks up a product 100% from their wholesale cost. when they advertise a 20-50% off sale, there is still a good profit to be made. cables are the biggest markup of all. when you add up the cost of materials and production (actual labor involved), the average high end cable that sells for over $1000 has less than $50 worth of material and probably less than that for labor. it's all markup to make people think they are getting some kind of great product because it costs more. using your food and clothing analogy only proves me right. by the way, i sold audio and video equipment for a few years, so i know where my numbers come from. |
To Stvncar: You're right of course. 40k, that's a lot of live concerts. By the way, what are Sinatra tickets going for these days? |
ccereda:
I have two digital sources that I enjoy very much:
Burmester 001
CEC TL1X transport/Chord DAC64
I should really sell one or the other, but can't decide which! I was never truly happy with digital until I found these two.
Jim |
to phaelon:
which sinatra are you referring to, frank jr. or nancy? you do know that frank sr. died, right????
off the subject, a great example of high markup is anti-cables. they sell for $10 per foot. all they are is magnet wire, which sells for about $3 per pound. a 10 foot pair of these cables will sell for $100, while the actual cost of parts is about 75 cents. somehow golden ears thinks differently. i'd like to see some concrete proof that i'm wrong about markups. really, i'd like to be proven wrong. please.... |
Stvncar-
Absolutely right; that was my point (I'll bet everyone else caught that). Many people make the jump from mid-fi to hi-fi seeking to experience the illusion of hearing a live performance available only through recordings. Your "off the subject" actually is the subject. There is a plethora of scoundrels who prey on those seeking musical bliss. Caveat emptor! |
Ccereda- 14k and higher if it's worthwhile?
It's almost impossible to imagine a less than stellar performer at that price. I presume you're asking because you desire value, even with your budget. You didn't list your equipment and, particularly for you, system synergy will be everything. Unless I'm totally out of the loop, I don't think there is a daunting number of super elite players. I would contact every high end retailer around and let them shoot it out using your system.
PS. If you like my advise, can I have your G08? |
Hi Ccereda,
It depends on your system. To my opinion the following CD players are excellent:
1. Wadia 861 or the new 581 (with SACD option)
2. Audio Aero if you like tube amp type of sound.
3. Mark Levinson 390S, old but still good.
4. Krell KPS28C, plays excellent in an all Krell system. If you do not have everything from Krell then it is a matter of testing.
Do not beleive other peoples opinions, no even mine. Only beleive your own ears. Everybody listens different and the only way to find out is to listen in your own system and take the one that you prefer.
But you can already make a preselection in the shop. Just skip the ones that you don't like at all and test 1-2 in your house.
Peter |
If you are that serious about digital playback, prepare the same amount of money or more to purchase the power conditioner, good power cords, good digital interconnect and good interconnects from your DAC to your preamp. This is my experience for my Burmester 969/970 combo in order to get close to my analog playback which was with much lower investment. I have the Burmester power conditioner, two Vahalla power cords for my transport and DAC from the power conditioner, Nordost Vahalla digital link and Nordost Thyr(only good for CD playback) interconnect to my preamp. With all these, I could then hear what CD playback can do to rival my LP system. |
The problem is your current cd player is already good. I see there is no reason to upgrade some more.
I believed that since u have such an excellent player, even if u upgrade to a better one. The improement will not be that's great & its not worth the money.
Why not take a look at your other items in your system for improvement ?
If u really wanted to, u can stick with your current brand or go for seperate transport & DAC.
U can check out on this site for recommendation. I believe there is a refernce DAC started by Teajay.
Please audit the item b4 buying as your ear is different from the other. |
for the Money the Accustic arts new mk-2 player is excellent which is about 6500.00
if you have a 2x that to spend the Accustic arts transport and Mk-3 dac at around 11k is superior to anything at 2x the price ,and that is a fact .myself and a few audiophiles have tested from Teacs , to Reiymyo.
In resolution and musicality it was superbas well as superb balance ! It is funny I read the review in http://www.dagogo.com/AccusticArtsDriveI-DACIMk3.html
and after reading what I thought was hype ,was fact.
This sytem will give many very good turntables fits for the many things it does better. |
maybe I'm wrong, but i think how people who can get 12.000 euros of spare cash on CD player alone are not visiting any forum. they either don't have enough time for this because they're making money, and at the same time they don't have enough time to listening music, let alone asking questions about upgrades.
so, you're on your own, rich boy!
if i get that kind of money, i will know what to do: call some high end dealer, tell him my musical tastes (i'm busy making money, you know), let him to setup things, and slap him in the face with my 10.000 dollars smoking pipe if i'm not satisfied with system performance.... |
IMO, ALOIA 11.01 CDP from Italy makes for a crazy good transport ($2500)- combine that with a SCOTT NIXON DAC and you're set...... good luck, brent |
From what I understand you should listen to the new Esoteric UX-1 Limited edition, their audio only unit. |
