Hello, Kitty!
I know it’s YOUR day in the barrel. 🙀
I know it’s YOUR day in the barrel. 🙀
Why Power Cables Affect Sound
I just bought a new CD player and was underwhelmed with it compared to my cheaper, lower quality CD player. That’s when it hit me that my cheaper CD player is using an upgraded power cable. When I put an upgraded power cable on my new CD player, the sound was instantly transformed: the treble was tamed, the music was more dynamic and lifelike, and overall more musical.
This got me thinking as to how in the world a power cable can affect sound. I want to hear all of your ideas. Here’s one of my ideas:
I have heard from many sources that a good power cable is made of multiple gauge conductors from large gauge to small gauge. The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor. If you only had one large gauge conductor, you would need to accelerate a very large train for a small, quick treble note, and this leads to poor dynamics. A similar analogy might be water in a pipe. A small pipe can react much quicker to higher frequencies than a large pipe due to the decreased mass/momentum of the water in the pipe.
That’s one of my ideas. Now I want to hear your thoughts and have a general discussion of why power cables matter.
If you don’t think power cables matter at all, please refrain from derailing the conversation with antagonism. There a time and place for that but not in this thread please.
This got me thinking as to how in the world a power cable can affect sound. I want to hear all of your ideas. Here’s one of my ideas:
I have heard from many sources that a good power cable is made of multiple gauge conductors from large gauge to small gauge. The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor. If you only had one large gauge conductor, you would need to accelerate a very large train for a small, quick treble note, and this leads to poor dynamics. A similar analogy might be water in a pipe. A small pipe can react much quicker to higher frequencies than a large pipe due to the decreased mass/momentum of the water in the pipe.
That’s one of my ideas. Now I want to hear your thoughts and have a general discussion of why power cables matter.
If you don’t think power cables matter at all, please refrain from derailing the conversation with antagonism. There a time and place for that but not in this thread please.
845 responses Add your response
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Somehow, I believe kosst, just might hear a difference between the power cable currently used with his home built F5, vs. another after market cord. If kosst has hot wired his cord, I know he would not make the change. But, if kosst used an IEC inlet in the build, it would pretty easy for him to do so and try. Oh my, could you imagine if kosst " did " hear a difference between the two, would he come on here and admit it ? What if he did not hear a difference. He would not want to admit that either. Enjoy ! MrD. |
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Don’t think that all that glitters is only gold. It’s really a false proffecy. A decent power supply will present a very low impedance to anything but low frequency AC (50/60Hz). Now, think about how a voltage divider works. It drops voltage proportionally over the impedances of each of the elements in the circuit. If our power supply is built to be a low impedance to anything but power line frequency, then what happens if we put a power cord on it with an equal or lower impedance to non-powerline frequencies? Yeah. So keep that skinny 18 gauge cord on your low power devices because it’s the place where you want to leave the non-powerline noise frequencies behind at, before the power supply. So, that’s when cheap power cords can be good, when your power supply has a decent noise filter from the company that designed your hifi component. |
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celander682 posts12-19-2018 7:44pmGeoff/Kosst, split personality. There are treatments available. Just saying... >>>>Free psychological advice. What a great thread! |
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hypotheses for how a power cable COULD affect sound" The fact remains, if you can't pick it out (on your own system) it dose not matter. Have your wife plug in the expensive cord for a day then the stock cord for a day, not telling you which is which. Do this for a week or 2. If it's obvious, you'll be correct every time. Really simple stuff. I would suggest, after the test, and when your wife quits laughing, sell the cables to a believer here. Take the money and upgrade your power equipment, speakers or sources. Or perhaps check into some battery/solar powered equipment. |
celander680 posts12-19-2018 6:30pmWhy do I get the impression that Kosst and Geoff are the same person? Anyone else notice they always show up on the same threads? >>>>>Oh, you’ve noticed we show up on the same threads, too. Not sure I go along with your detective work, however. He’s one of my many stalkers. Isn’t it obvious? He always shows up on controversial topic threads, where your humble narrator is oft found. Costco_emoji and I are about as diametrically opposed on most issues as you can get so it’s extremely unlikely we’re the same person. Mystery solved! |
Whoa! What? I did not know there were high, medium and low frequencies traveling through the power cord. I was under the impression it was current and voltage, alternating at 60 Hz.That’s why we are having the conversation. Maybe I’m not understanding how power is delivered to the primary side of the transformer via the power cable. I figured a treble note and a bass note would produce different AC waveforms in the power cable. But perhaps I’m looking at it wrong. |
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mkgus 13. Cable constructions of multiple gauge wires that influence the way high, medium and low frequencies propagate through the power cable. >>>>Whoa! What? I did not know there were high, medium and low frequencies traveling through the power cord. I was under the impression it was current and voltage, alternating at 60 Hz. 😳 |
kosst_amojan1,871 posts12-19-2018 4: Shielding? The 50 miles of transmission line to your house have no shielding either. >>>>Strawman argument. Like shooting fish in a barrel. 🐠 🐠 🐟 🐠 |
celander678 posts12-19-2018 4:39pmCan’t let Geoff have the last word on this one. +1, to markalarsen I’d go further and suggest all cables are influenced by EMI. And some cables don’t have a shield. Just saying that as a matter of fact, not preference or argument. But arguably, some unshielded cables are highly regarded among those cables having the best SQ, including power cables. >>>>>A little bit of confliction in those statements. |
kosst, And a lot of incoming AC sucks, too. Not saying that is due to lack of shielding though. mkgus, Perhaps the simplest answer to your query is the differences in conditioning of the power cable you used on your older player versus your newer player. Cable conditioning is arguably as important as quality of the cable used. |
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@acman3 There has been a lot of thread crapping in this thread. And I'm sure I've probably contributed my fair share. But the post that was removed was neither thread crapping or uncivil....if I remember correctly. And quite a few offensive posts have gone....unmoderated. I have not been able to contact the mods for an explanation. maritime51 said: "Avoid engaging a certain Kat and you’ll be fine." Agreed, but again, the post in question did not even do that. I agree with others though. It has run its course and is at an impasse. Time to leave it be. |
I think Audiogon Admin. is taking a stand on thread crapping. The last paragraph of the OP is pretty clear. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thread%20crapping |
Can’t let Geoff have the last word on this one. +1, to markalarsen I’d go further and suggest all cables are influenced by EMI. And some cables don’t have a shield. Just saying that as a matter of fact, not preference or argument. But arguably, some unshielded cables are highly regarded among those cables having the best SQ, including power cables. |
That’s a great list. Let’s start with the first one: Purity of conductors. Assuming we’re comparing a $10 Amazon powercord and a $1k pure sliver (the best conductor?) powercord, why the latter would make a CD player sound better? To me, since either one of them would be a massive overkill for the meager power draw of a CD player as far as wire resistance is concerned, I’m lost how the silver powercord could make the CD player sound better. |
I think Steve must have stumbled upon this thread as his insight on all of this is pretty spot on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRRe3soIZFU And, despite his reasoned approach, check out some of the naysayers in the comments section. They're cut from the same cloth as those here. All the best, Nonoise |
Going off of geoff’s list and adding some of the other views expressed here, here are SOME of the hypotheses for how a power cable COULD affect sound: 1. Purity of conductors 2. Conductivity of conductors 3. Dielectric properties of insulation 4. Solid vs stranded core conductors 5. Shielding 6. Plugs (e.g., better conductors, tighter connections) 7. “Directionality” of wire 8. Single crystal conductors 9. The polishing of solid core wires 10. Cryogenic treatments 11. Conductor gauge 12. Dielectric bias systems 13. Cable constructions of multiple gauge wires that influence the way high, medium and low frequencies propagate through the power cable. 14. The physical 3D shape of the “signal” through the cable. Let me know if I forgot anything that was mentioned or if you have something to add to the list. Everybody take a number and go conduct rigorous experiments and report back. 🤣 |
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I accept the challenge. Here are 12 reasons why certain power cords could sound better than others. 1. Higher purity metal (oxygen free, 6 nines, etc.) 2. Higher conductivity metal, I.e., silver 3. Better dielectric material 4. Solid core vs stranded conductor 5. More effective shielding 6. More effective plugs (e.g., better conductors, tighter connection) 7. Conductor wires and strands controlled for directionality 8. Conductors are long crystal copper 9. Solid core metal wires are highly polished 10. Power cord cryogenically treated 11. Thicker conductor 12. Dielectric bias system |
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A large part of the problem here, it seems to me, what with all the pent up emotion, angst, open hostility and bizarre quasi philosophical screeds, is that people tend to be followers and - I hate to judge to quickly but - many involved in this thread are following the wrong livestock. As for doctors, no offense, but all that “I’m a doctor so you can believe me when I say...” is a pretty obvious albeit excellent example of appeal to authority. 🐑 🐑 🐑 🐑 🚶♂️ |
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