Why pay so much?
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@clearthink It is because there are people who lack the skills, education, and experience to earn, acquire, and develop the wealth aka "expendable income" to purchase these products.... yada, yada.....Seriously - what a sanctimonious pile of crap. What makes you all-knowing? How about those of us who can afford expensive wire, have heard and owned expensive wire, yet don't buy into the hype and choose to build our own speaker cable out of much less expensive materials, such as 50-year old copper? I suppose we are not worthy because our systems or hearing are somehow deficient....right? Standard playbook stuff. |
Mitch2, copper is billions of years old. It comes from the collision of 2 neutron stars in a binary system or in other words it’s stars that have exploded in to a super nova and failed to turn in to a black hole leaving neutron stars that combine at a 1/3 the speed of light, and create precious metals. 50 year old copper? Are you seriously kidding me? If $30k AudioQuest Dragon Zero and Dragon Bass were $100, would you buy them still? If your MIT Oracle Matrix SHD 120 Rev. 2 Speaker Interface didn’t cost $40k, and were $200, would you buy them? Audio cable theories on fidelity in wires aside, would anyone buy these wires if they only just costed $300? And I’m talking introductory prices. Not discounted. If their original pricing were to have been $100-200 for each of them. Because with 100,000% margins, they’d still make 1,000% margins on those 3 wires I listed if they changed those prices. I’m just saying you’re all getting ripped off. Do they sound "better" to you? Fine, whatever, but at least don’t get ripped off. If AudioQuest charged a few hundred dollars, or MIT wire charged a few hundred dollars, they never would have been considered "high fidelity", because of the expensive M.S.R.P. (manufacturer suggested retail pricing) dollar effect, affects your perception. mitch22,073 posts10-26-2019 8:53am Seriously - what a sanctimonious pile of crap. What makes you all-knowing? How about those of us who can afford expensive wire, have heard and owned expensive wire, yet don’t buy into the hype and choose to build our own speaker cable out of much less expensive materials, such as 50-year old copper? I suppose we are not worthy because our systems or hearing are somehow deficient....right? Standard playbook stuff. |
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Well. James Randi used to offer $1,000,000 for proof of proof of the supernatural, and he put out the reward for people claiming speaker wire mattered in sound fidelity, and no one would do it. Not Pear Anjou? Or the reviewer who reviewed the $10k speaker wire from Pear Anjou as causing your feet to do the "proevrbial" tap dancing. He stopped doing the offer recently. I think he retired. There still are several companies that offer $10k+ to prove the supernatural. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal Go claim your reward! But be sure you break in your billions of years old copper and silver speaker wiring though. 😉 Now I’m getting trollish. I was hoping to open up discussion about this, but all I received was anger and name calling like "Troll" ... But. Well, there’s a sucker born every minute. People used to literally buy snake oil for medicine. I suppose this is the 21st and 20th century version of people buying snake oil medicine. Stuff like this has been going on for millenniums. The tendency to buy on to this stuff must be hereditary and gene orientated like how some people genetically are more susceptible to sip the kool aid and join cults. snake oil/ˈsnāk ˌoil/nounINFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN
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When he set his sights on audiophile gadgets James Randi first offered 1M to a customer of mine if he could pass the double blind test for the Intelligent Chip. That was way back in 2005. Negotiations eventually broke down, however, just as they did later with Fremer and the cable Challenge. Who knows why someone who made his name going after dowsers and spoon-benders wanted to go after audiophiles? My guess is he wanted some action. I was the subject of five - count em! - of his Newsletters. One of his droogies challenged me to a judo fight on board Randi’s yacht during a retreat in the Caribbean. Too much fun! By the way, Randi got a lot of his $$$ from Johnny Carson. By the way, I don’t think you’re a troll. I know you are. |
Well, I think the OP makes a very rational point, one that I completely agree with. The cost vs. benefit proposition goes completely off the rails with uber-expensive cabling. I have Triode Wire Labs and Cerious Technology ICs's and power cables and they are pretty pricey but to my ears worth it. However, I am not tempted at all to move up the IC food chain. Belen and Blue Cables make excellent budget cabling, used by professional studios. I have Supra Ply 3.4 speakers cable which is very affordable and performs well and very affordable. What blows me away are folks that spend their cash on cheap crystals to put on their components or silly dots to affix to their windows expecting some SQ improvement. Same thing with the "fuse-heads" who salivate over some new "colored" fuse that will dramatically change the sound of their system. Price is no bother for these adherents, but I would suggest that virtually all who adopt these pricey tweaks are victims of confirmational bias, the effect of which is more profound the more expensive the tweak is. At any rate, I can't possible see how you can can flame the OP or call him a troll on this particular post. He has the better end of the argument. |
If AudioQuest charged $350 for their Dragon Zero and Bass which would be 100% fair, I might buy it. Some would call me ridiculous considering I could get the same audio fidelity from $1 a foot belden. Paying 1,000% premium for something that probably doesn’t mean anything. But I’m OCD, and I like the idea that I have something high quality in my system. But to tell you the truth. Belden audio and video wires is my thing. Even if I wanted "better", I couldn’t find it, and would keep the Belden. And it makes sense they would be the best. They’re a $3 billion dollar company that sells their wire to NASA and all of the commercial wiring industry; the stuff that people record and operate the media I see and hear with. It makes sense that a scientific company would make the best wiring as well as charging $1 a foot; as the no nonsense company probably would have the best anyways. I don’t go by price tag. I trust the $3 billion dollar company with hundreds of millions of dollars in research an development. Not the company that makes a few million dollars a year selling components they hand made down by the river in a van. |
Have you ever listened to a $100. interconnect in a high performance system, then listened to a $2000. interconnect in the same system. You will hear the difference. When building a system, everything matters as has often been stated here over and over. I do';t know what stated this stratospheric pricing of cables many years ago BUT the higher end ones do make a noticeable difference. especially if the rest of your equipment is at a similar level. I just replaced a 20 yr. old $2000. interconnect with a $4000.interconnect and there is a big difference. There are things I never heard before the upgrade now available and all the audiophile buzz words can be used in describing the new "sound". Worth $2000. ?? Depends on the buyers perspective and desires. ps. Don't justify raw costs with the selling price. If you knew the material cost of everything you bought, you would never buy anything. Since you trust billion dollars companies blindly, have you flown on any 737 MAX jets lately? I think they are grounded for some design flaws. |
You guys are really funny. Like, this is like being on the Flat Earth forums, where you see people convinced the Earth is flat. Just, it’s like a Kool Aid that’s being sipped. Could it be that you have a passionate love for music, and it’s fun spending a lot of money to get " higher quality " speaker wires and better sound? And that in actuality, you want so bad to believe that music can get more and more Accurate each year, that it’s just a never ending cycle of upgrading to get as close to the real thing as possible? I get it. Upgrading speakers, audio cables and power wire, etc, processors and power conditioners and etc? It’s a hobby. It’s something to do and you can spend hours fantasizing about new equipment. I could probably hook up some Audioquest And MTI wiring, and "hear" a difference. I could probably sip the kool aid and think something is better. In many times in life, when there’s a will there’s a way. I assume though if you got me double blind tested, I wouldn’t be able to distinguish the fidelity though. Like Scientology, the Flat Earth cult, etc, a good part of people just wants to break people free of placebo and incorrect stuff, because it’s frustration. I hope one day you guys get some courage to do a truly 100% no possible error of scientific investigation in to this, and learn a lesson about life. I kind of went through this right away when I entered the hobby, but I pretty quickly caught on to the big picture of the audio and video world. Some people are faster than others to learning things like this in life. It’s an important lesson to learn. Good luck guys! I said my peace, and I respect all of you. Figure it out, I’ll probably be done harassing you guys now. Burn away those audio cables so they break in well! 😀 😎 - Andy |
I was about to makea new topic dealing with this idea of spending$$$$$$$ on supposedly *new super high tech pure blahblahblah~~~ speaker/cable connects...I see funaudio has stated his idea very clean and has cleanly exposed the fraud. which brings me to My latest researchm,,as you guys know i try to be on ~~~The Cutting edge~~~ of all tweaks/mods..my mother was german, my great great great grandfather was Horace Bushnell, america's greatest thinker,,and so i have this knack at looking at all angles, figuring out what is best of the best. Here goes what i just discovered this morning,,so it is indeed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~BREAKING NEWS FLASH~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pure 100% copper RCA male and RCA female jack ends can be purchased off ebay. Thats step one in my $100 connects that will blow away any and every $50,000 interconnects in a shootout, ,.OK you have the RCA connects, now purcahse STERLING SILVER (a cheaper route vs pure silver) say 1.5mm thickness half round (1/2 round is cheaper vs round) connect the 1.5 MM 1/2 round sterling silver to each male rca connect,,,now replace your 2 cent RCA gold color stereo female jack plug with PURE COPPER RCA female jack,,,yeah look at your $50K amp, jadis, Mac, Krell etc ARC, etc etc ETC,,all have those 2 cent gold color trash jacks, including Jadis's 500 monos which are $50K + retail...ohh Jadis how could you.. Now for speaker wire, use same sterling silver, 1.5 MM thickness or wrap 2 strands together for extra transition of electron flow. There you have it,,,all can be done for under $500 and can shoot out any and all super high end cables/speaker wires in a NY minute. Now i need to figure if the 1/2 round is like a 1/5MM cut in half,,maybe better spend tyhe extra few bucks and get the FULL ROUND, = more condunctance. The Tweak Guy who won;t lead you astray. |
although silver possess onlya small % greater conductivity vs copper, note the section under COMPLEX RESISTIVITY and CONDUCTIVITY,, scroll down you will see the section,,note the word SUSCEPTIVITY Note the word SIEMENS, that is a key word here, although silver vs copper are very close,,my guess is what is the nature of the electron flow inside silver vs copper,,,My guess is the SIEMENS inside the silver flow are more happy = more zing,,,to the electrons vs the electrons inside the copper flow. Remember there is a socalled ~~~Imaginay~~~ nature to electrical conductivity,,called SIEMENS,,,very hard to measure,,,which is why i prefer silver sterling as my prefered choice vs copper cables/wires. You can make your own $50,000 cables/speaker wires for under $500 fora complete system, 3 pairs interconnects, 6 ft biwire silver speaker wires, all under $500, vs the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ snakeoil brands. |
forgot here is the link to SUSCEPTIVITY/SIEMENS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity |
You see unlike many posts here which are ~~just sayin~~~ I am trying to bring real science into the equation, I sure can not pass a electrical enginner exam,,but i can read and figure out some of the gist,,,gist is, silver is just a bit superior to pure copper in REAL terms,,but there is a ~~~imaginary construct~~~ called SIEMENS,,which is hard, if not impossible to measure,,Now grant it,,I have no silver yet in my system,,its all on order from ebay. In 3 weeks I will have silver going on, and will report back , honestly/fairly/whats going on...The testing A/B copper to silver may take some months,,but i will have at least a prliminary report on the ~~~Zing factor~~~ with Silver. I have 1/2 round sterling silver 20 ft piece,,that will go for the top MT section of my Thor MTM,,the lower midbass will have copper, as that midbass lower FQ's will not benifit much from silver. I am asking the ebay seller about the square and full round,,perhaps I should have purchased the square or full round for interconnects/speaker wires,,the pure copper RCA females are on the way,,the male RCA ends i am @ $32 each,,i have in wish cart as my mod budget is blown sky high at the moment,,,don't have a money tree in my backyard....,,all these pure copper/sterling silver mods are in the making,,and will take 3 months to purcahse, build/complete testing. My test results will not be biased not fraudlent, = No snakeoil from this audio review guy, ~~ just straight shooting, honest draw on the gun. As I say i have so many mods going on, new M silver/gold supremes, silver gold, silver oil, etc Mundorfs,,+ new opamps for CD17 cayin,,,IOW I have to place the silver wires 1st inn system before new opamps and new caps. After I hear silver,,then i change caps,, after i listen critical,,then i change the caps,,, and so on, so forth,,this way i can determine which mod has made more SIEMES come aline in the system. Siemens to me is the smallest unit , which has both a real anda imaginary quality of transference. Its this imaginary of ~~ zing~~ element which i think, by imploying Silver, will make alive the higher fq's in our systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_(unit) It will be dif to make my mod reviews solid, as refering to the idea ~~all things being equal~~~, hopefully i can determine which is snakeoil and which produced more ~~Siemens~~ or as i call it ~~Silver Zing Factor~~ aka SZF |
