Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)

In my example above, there is little chance I was imagining the longer USB cable sounding better than the shorter one when I was biased to thinking the opposite.

Unless your bias against the longer one caused you to listen with more focus that allowed you to hear detail that you missed before?  You cannot say with complete confidence that that was not the case.

I did not note what differences you perceived between the longer and shorter cable. I am not saying this is the case for your test, but it is common that the differences reported between two components are simply impossible with the change that was made. I do understand your point with the meteor, often there are unintended consequences, we see that in product design all the time. But there are some fundamental facts of how things work that cannot be ignored either.

@assetmgrsc

 

OK, I’ll bite -- who or what is ASR and why should I care?

ASR = Audio Science Review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php

It’s a forum that looks to more objective or reliable ways of evaluating audio gear, essentially taking the lessons from science as to the importance of controlling for variables, seeking more reliable results, etc.

Basically, if an audio manufacturer makes some claims for their product, the ASR approach is to not simply rely on the subjective anecdotes of audiophiles, but to look to measurements first of all to see if they claims are plausible or justified, and also when possible to control for sighted bias for listening tests (blind testing).

The site founder, Amir, is highly technically qualified and knowledgeable, owns some of the best measurement tools you can get, and has produced a huge number of gear reviews - speakers, amps, dacs, phono stages, cables, you name it. ASR has made huge waves in the audiophile community and Amir’s video reviews are filled with appreciative comments for the knowledge and gear evluation he is putting out.

Why should you care?

Well, depends on what you care about. How much do you care whether a claim about a piece of gear is true or not? If you are in the "if I think I (or someone else) hears a difference, that’s all I need" camp, then ASR won’t be for you.

But if you care more deeply about what is really going on with audio gear, to understand it, and use that knowledge to make decisions, then it can be very helpful.

For instance Amir has reviewed expensive cables (USB for instance) from Nordost and other companies, and shown they don’t improve the signal at all, certainly not in any audible way, over readily available cheaper cables. It would be up to you what you do with such information. Some audiophiles will always stick with "what I think I hear" and discard such evaluations. Others (like myself) will use this information to learn what to worry about or not in audio, and I’ll prefer to put my money to gear that is more likely to improve the sound.

@prof Thanks for your answer, sane, sensible and complete enough.

@amir_asr   You sir, have more patience than I do, bless you.

to all you guys believing in burn in requirements of more than that required to reach a stable operating temperature:  How do you know that the most variable element in your listening is YOU and YOU might just be the element that has "improved" it's hearing/interpretation of the music???

One last comment for me:  I have clearly heard differences in cables, but they always seem to correlate with cable diameter and quality terminations, beyond that 😁

certainly not in any audible way

That statement in itself is subjective.  I don't think ASR has any data on whether something is within or beyond our hearing threshold.  The tests they produce cannot be used to say whether something sounds warm, bright, musical, thin, analytical, has a wide/narrow soundstage ... and so much more.  At the end of the day, you just have to listen.

That statement in itself is subjective.

Of course it isn’t a subjective claim. It’s an objective empirical claim. It’s either true or false, and testable.

I don’t think ASR has any data on whether something is within or beyond our hearing threshold.

Then you aren’t familiar with ASR. Amir often references studied threshholds for human hearing (including as I recall, tests he was part of producing in developing codecs).

The tests they produce cannot be used to say whether something sounds warm, bright, musical, thin, analytical, has a wide/narrow soundstage ... and so much more.

1. Blind tests can determine if there is a detectable difference in any of those qualities between different gear.

2. I don’t mean this as an insult, but you seem to be projecting your own ignorance of what is known about the correlation of measurements and what we hear. We know plenty about what combination of harmonics create which timbres (how do you think synths have managed to mimic real instruments). Any good mixer understands which frequency changes will influence most of the qualities you mention:

I use EQ all the time to alter warmth, body, brightness, thinness, etc.

So if you know enough about frequency response, you can predict to a certain degree how various deviations from neutral will sound (and Amir provides among the best measurements you can get, including for speakers).

You CAN predict what you won’t hear via many measurements. And when it comes to complex outputs like speakers, it may be difficult to totally predict how you will hear something from the measurements, but that is different from the outright denial of the correlation of measurements to sonic character that you seem to be arguing.