why expensive streamers

@soix and others

I am unclear about the effect on sound of streamers (prior to getting to the dac). Audio (even hi-res) has so little information content relative to the mega and giga bit communication and processing speeds (bandwidth, BW) and cheap buffering supported by modern electronics that it seems that any relatively cheap piece of electronics would never lose an audio bit. 

Here is why. Because of the huge amount of BW relative to the BW needs of audio, you can send the same audio chunk 100 times and use a bit checking algorithm (they call this "check sum") to make sure just one of these sets is correct. With this approach you would be assured that the correct bits would be transfered. This high accuracy rate would mean perfect audio bit transfer. 

What am I missing? Why are people spending 1000's on streamers?



128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xdelmatae


I agree to disagree.  And I do believe that you are earnest in your beliefs.  I guess my frustration is this feeling that we live in a post-truth world.  I show you factual evidence of virtually no jitter across a wide range of streamers, but because you want to believe in the jitter fantasy, you insist there is audible jitter, offering. no evidence other than that you hear isomething.  A different approach would be: “ok, i guess you’ve shown me it’s probably not jitter.  But I hear something. Maybe I need to work out more carefully what it is.”. Regardless, peace be with you.


How can it be that these manufacturers have discovered a secret in removing jitter, noise (and fairy dust?) without showing us how to measure this new, exciting branch of science?  Why don’t you ask them to prove it?  Why don’t they volunteer this information that would prove their brilliance? It’s all mystifying to me. 

If you are genuinely mystified by these these questions you rattle off, why don't you ask the manufacturers for whatever you seek? Why harass users here to obtain the information on your behalf?

This isn't a scientific forum. No one here owes you proof of anything.

We do live in a post-truth world. But you also did not show me factual information of virtually no jitter. You showed me factual information of little jitter - two different things. And, I’ve read scientific studies that show the ear is sensitive to smaller timing effects than you claim. So, I, right or wrongly, can at least wonder if jitter indeed may be an effect. Regardless, I’m completely open to the differences not being jitter - but I also took out the effects on upsampling and processing in my auditions that you believe are those causes. In my initial auditions, I engaged neither. (Full disclosure - I do now use an upsampler and processor to great effect in my system so I acknowledge those potential benefits.) I’ve also given you rationale (but still anecdotal) why I don’t think I’m so easily duped by confirmation bias as I’ve rejected many things upon audition that didn’t provide the performance promised. I don’t part with money so easily.

I will close with this. In addition to being in a post-truth world, we are living in a post civilized world where people on forums not only disagree, but do so with verbal hostility,  arrogance and superiority. As I don’t believe my responses merited this, so your closing rings particularly hollow.  

I am confused about "no jitter."  When I was looking at different DDCs, I came across this review about the Singxer SU-6 model, that I ended up purchasing.  The reviewer performed measurements and at that time the SU-6 had the lowest jitter of units they had tested, but there was still jitter.

In addition, the reviewer discussed noise and said:

The second issue that a good DDC or Streamer will seek to address is electrical noise. You don’t want noise from your source causing your DAC to perform poorly. Noise can have a direct, audible effect, such as hearing GPU-whine through your headphones/speakers, or it can have indirectly-audible effects. For example, causing clocks in your dac, or other circuitry, to perform sub-optimally.
Some dacs are more immune to this, and some will even have full galvanic isolation to in theory prevent any noise getting through entirely. But many smaller dacs are much more susceptible to it.