why expensive streamers

mdalton

those are called rhetorical questions ...

I apologize if my frustration came across as hostile.  

Sealioning, anyone?

mdalton

How can it be that these manufacturers have discovered a secret in removing jitter, noise (and fairy dust?) without showing us how to measure this new, exciting branch of science?  Why don’t you ask them to prove it?  Why don’t they volunteer this information that would prove their brilliance? It’s all mystifying to me. 

If you are genuinely mystified by these these questions you rattle off, why don't you ask the manufacturers for whatever you seek? Why harass users here to obtain the information on your behalf?

This isn't a scientific forum. No one here owes you proof of anything.

grislybutter

I don’t imagine anything. Here is the spotify algorithm ...

Don’t be silly. Spotify is a compressed, lossy service.

As I mentioned, services such as Qobuz and Tidal are lossless, and use TCP/IP protocol to send bit perfect copies of the files provided to them by the record companies.

Note that Tidal’s MQA files are not lossless, but MQA is a whole ’nuther kettle of fish. Tidal’s FLAC files are lossless.

grislybutter

Playing via streaming (putting packages together as they come in vs having it all at the door) is different because of their algorithms for how to cut corners - to deal with missing/delayed packets ..

What algorithms do you imagine exist? Services such as Qobuz and Tidal use TCP/IP protocol to send bit perfect copies of files provided to them by the record companies. It's as simple as that.

carlsbad2

... Streaming can't use the error checking protocols that achieve bitperfect file transfer. Thus, dropped bits and the streamer's attempts to deal with it ...

That is not true. Services such as Qobuz and Tidal use TCP/IP, which is a bit perfect protocol. Data arrive in packets and faulty packets are resent.

carlsbad2

The error correction people keep mentioning is generally not the correct term. For file transfer, there is data correction available. It will go back to the source and get the correct data. For streaming, there is not data correction, there is just "data error handling", perhaps "data error mitigation".

That is not true. Services such as Qobuz and Tidal use TCP/IP, which is a bit perfect protocol. Data arrive in packets and faulty packets are resent. The streamer assembles the files and sends them to the cache, which then sends the files to the DAC.

grislybutter

I would have thought when analog is converted to digital and it becomes a stream, timing is encoded in the stream, the 0s and 1s. There is no layers of data, such as content and "pace" or whatever timing means, it's all one linear series.

Oh no, "streaming" is a misnomer in that sense. It isn't linear at all. The data arrive in packets and they can arrive out of sequence, and perhaps even multiple times if errors are detected.

grislybutter

... every time I go to a nearby dealer, they point to the "No Loitering" sign and lock the door ...

You must have treated him very badly. I can only hope you learned from the experience.

grislybutter

I just don't get the $1,000 vs $20,000 streamer argument. 

Have you tried listening for yourself, perhaps at a dealer who's willing to demo?