why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable
I have tried expensive cables and one's moderately priced. I would say there were some differences but I can't actually say the expensive cables were better. IMHO I believe a lot of people buy expensive cables because they don't actual trust their ears and are afraid of making a mistake. They figure the expensive cables are better for the fact they cost more. If you have a difference of opinion or share the same thoughts, I would like to hear about it.
Try and detect/hear the difference between ordinary speaker wire and the most expensive/exotic there is in a blind test. That’ll end the debate.
No, it won’t, because naysayers such as yourself will perpetuate the debate. One cable manufacturer has offered its own comparator for exactly this sort of evaluation. Why do you think Wireworld does that? Because there are differences. And they are audible. But - and this is a big "but" - you won’t know about these differences until you actually conduct some listening experiments. That seems to be something you and others in the "hear no difference"crowd seem unwilling to do. You prefer to be an armchair theorist.
Bin there dun that! When one checks for directionality of fuses he doesn’t know which way is the right way, so it’s essentially blind. All one needs to do is listen. Also if there are many fuses in the system one must pay attention whilst flipping fuses. Otherwise you could wind up the same as you started. The reason I’m telling you all this is because I realize you have no experience with this sort of thing. You just like to talk a lot and pretend. A pretend skeptic. You talk the talk but can you walk the walk?
Obviously anyone can cherry pick user testimonials and find some somewhere that agree with you. Or just make it up, who’s gonna know, right? And ignore the testimonials that don’t agree with your foregone conclusions. It’s the oldest ploy in the pseudo skeptics playbook. Even better, find a PhD somewhere who agrees with you. That can be very powerful in these sorts of “debates.” Cough, cough!
Why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable? Because you get what you pay for - same thing applies to audio cable.
Truth is though there are different applications for cables. Interconnects being one, and speaker wire being another. There is such an abundance of information - and listener testimonial - stating that in the case of speaker wire, anything other than "ordinary lamp cord" is essentially unnecessary and indistinguishable audibly. The only thing one gets in this case is more broke.
^ Of course I can relate to cd318. If you read many of his posts throughout the forum, they are accurate, well written and devoid of sarcasm and nonsense.
Whoa! What? Geez, it’s getting deep in here. Need my hip waders. Good luck with all that. Get out much? Finally, someone who gdhal can relate to on his level. 👨🚀
Human progress is slow, doubly so it seems when it comes to fraudio. Still, the debate about cables is kids stuff compared to other big questions that have challenged mankind.
Even when telescopes suggested different the idea that the planets and the sun orbited around the earth was hard to abandon. The perplexing problem of the holy Trinity has occupied our 'finest' minds for centuries.
The internet is awash with debates over a whole host of challenging propositions - were the Moon landings faked, is the Earth flat?, who was really responsible for 9/11, do vacinescause more harm than good, who are our real puppet-masters? etc etc.
Before we all descend into irreversible paranoia, we still have one great resource left to us, namely our minds, and in the case is audio, our ears. That's what it comes down to eventually.
If you're looking for certainty, you're looking in the wrong place. You're welcome to read all you want but please apply some consideration first to what the motives might be behind the text.
@gdhal, I’m pretty sure a nice long cold shower will help get rid of what is apparently causing you considerable grief. If that’s doesn’t work consult your physician.
cj1965 " If the game is lost, then we're all the same No one left to place or take the blame " - gdhal quoting Bob Weir (yes, the Grateful Dead Bob....)
some more from "wise old" Bob...
- " Full of hope, full of grace, is the human face But afraid, we may lay our home to waste "
Does that make it any clearer for you , geoffkait?
Allow me to translate....peaceful coexistence tends to outrank constant war, exploitation and strife. In other words, peaceful, respectful discussions are possible without vehement disagreement and argument that devolves into insult and destruction of any/all dialog....Did I get that right, gdhal?
>>>>>Allow me to translate for you..... Blah, blah, blah
"
If the game is lost, then we're all the same No one left to place or take the blame
" - gdhal quoting Bob Weir (yes, the Grateful Dead Bob....)
some more from "wise old" Bob...
- "
Full of hope, full of grace, is the human face But afraid, we may lay our home to waste
"
Does that make it any clearer for you , geoffkait?
Allow me to translate....peaceful coexistence tends to outrank constant war, exploitation and strife. In other words, peaceful, respectful discussions are possible without vehement disagreement and argument that devolves into insult and destruction of any/all dialog....Did I get that right, gdhal?
If you think that expensive cables are no less than the cheap one, then you are wrong. These cables are made with compounds manufactured under high-quality standards, waterproof and without using halogen as compared to normal cables. I prefer to buy cables from the reliable power cable manufacturers for safety, security and quality.
Goeff says: Sometimes tis best to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your yap and remove all doubt.
So....you are calling me a fool. When at a loss for something clever to say, you always resort to name calling. MY being a fool (according to you) has nothing to do with the discussion here.
But, what the hell, you needed to say something to get your post-point in. 10,000 posts by the end of July. We are all rooting for you, Geoff!!
🐑 gdhal @geoffkait You’re late. Remember to put what’s in thy back pocket where thy keyboard is. Trouble is of course, if thy back pocket consists of proceeds from a business that deals in voodoo, thy back pocket is liable to be empty. Would you consider that wise?
If thy eye offend thee pluck it out. 👀
A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from voodoo to the average Joe. - old audiophile axiom
I had no idea you were so wise. Writing a passage using clever words and phrases does not a wise man make. Especially when said passage makes so little sense.
>>>>Sometimes tis best to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your yap and remove all doubt.
(to gdhal) I will do you the solid of telling you that it exists, so that you might go on and find it on your own, but I won't give it to you, as that information is valuable. Hard fought for, in most cases.
Right on. Never give a sucker an even break and never smarten up a chump.
cleeds
- ...I did express an interest in testing the audibility of cable
differences - including directionality - in an objective,
scientifically valid test...gdhal
As did I, with the inclusion of what is typically found in ones back pocket. To this extent, you declined.
I remain willing to
discuss in public an objective,
scientifically valid listening test that would be held in public. You want to shuttle that conversation offline for very dubious purposes. If you change your mind and develop a sincere interest in this testing, just let me know. But of course, the discussion and test will have to be in public, so that others
can offer suggestions and participate, if they choose.
cleeds - ...I did express an interest in testing the audibility of cable differences - including directionality - in an objective, scientifically valid test....
As did I, with the inclusion of what is typically found in ones back pocket. To this extent, you declined. Have a nice day.
No, you're superman, capable of the impossible, and who purportedly
can hear the difference when ordinary speaker wire is reversed.
There is a very good and known technical explanation for the why of such a claim, and when it is evaluated it is known to be a functional answer within the context of scientific validity.
I will do you the solid of telling you that it exists, so that you might go on and find it on your own, but
I won't give it to you, as that information is valuable. Hard fought for, in most cases.
Commercial viability is many times tied to learned lore - as applied to product. Lore is protected, for all the right reasons.
The scenario stands as:..you seeming to collect a gaggle of yes men who are in the same boat, vs a largely silent group who understand the lore, the science and the engineering - and it's application to product.
Your voice, or position seems strong, due to the silence of intelligent, agreeable and wiser people.... who are wise enough to avoid the hassle that your position and voice represent.
You don't have a position. You have the appearance of a position--to some.
If
you are now admitting that you *cannot* hear the difference when
ordinary speaker wire is reversed, then you and I have nothing to
discuss/communicate on or offline
I never stated I could hear such a difference. If you believe otherwise, please feel free to quote from the relevant post. (Hint: You won't be able to locate such a quote, because I never said it.) I did express an interest in testing the audibility of cable differences - including directionality - in an objective, scientifically valid test. After first expressing an interest in that, you then tried to move the conversation offline. When you attempt that, the moderators step in.
If you are now admitting that you *cannot* hear the difference when ordinary speaker wire is reversed, then you and I have nothing to discuss/communicate on or offline.
cleeds -Please get your facts straight.
Don’t worry. Your accusatory statements, such as but not limited to, "your $25K "listening test" hustle" have been recorded and reported to the moderator.
No, you’re superman, capable of the impossible, and who purportedly can hear the difference when ordinary speaker wire is reversed.
You’re either be silly, or just argumentative - I never made any such claim. Never. I did express an interest in testing the audible differences between cables - including directionality - in what would be an objective, scientific test. But I never speculated on the outcome of such a test. Please get your facts straight.
^ Unable to discuss anything cleeds as my posts get deleted. Sorry.
I'm not a moderator - just a member here like you. I can't delete your posts. I think the posts of yours that get deleted are when you try to move the conversation offline so that you can resume your $25K "listening test" hustle. There's no problem as long as the conversation remains here.
marsrecords these discussions should just stop. Cables make major difference is systems depending the system itself .. higher resolution systems can benefit from higher end cables. I have heard the change countless times when I was in the business years ago. So these were not cables I bought so I needed to hear a difference. When the know it all post comes in "snake oil etc etc" "audiofools" .. my first thought it they do not really listen listen to their system
>>>>I suppose you could say it’s healthy to have a difference of opinion or have some kind of legitimate counter-argument from skeptics but I’m afraid these are not real debates. In fact many if these threads are started as a joke. Isn’t it obvious? The “Skeptics” are almost always little scamps who are in it strictly for the laughs and who enjoy teasing the audiophiles. It’s really as simple as that. Like cats teasing a dog. Isn’t it obvious? 😳
This looks like your $25,000 hustle all over again. No thanks. If you want to discuss arranging an honest listening test, let's discuss it here. I have nothing to hide.
these discussions should just stop. Cables make major difference is systems depending the system itself .. higher resolution systems can benefit from higher end cables. I have heard the change countless times when I was in the business years ago. So these were not cables I bought so I needed to hear a difference. When the know it all post comes in "snake oil etc etc" "audiofools" .. my first thought it they do not really listen listen to their system
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