Newbee, nice of you to chime in. In a sense, and I mean this with a touch of malice, you may be right. Never thought of Chet's music this way. His audience? I wouldn't really know. But our "intellectuals" in Europe, especially those who flirted with more than just weed, loved him. Speaking of dinner jazz...do you know Carla Bleys *Dinner Music" ? Hilarious!
Cheers,
Detlof |
Detlof , Apologies are not necessary.You are not fans of Mulligan or Baker that's fine.I happen to be a fan,but that just me.I still appreciate your posts and insights. |
Yeah I can appreciate the cultural myopia that might conclude that jazz is an answer to social ostracism or that musicians who must work for a living never tire of complaining about the competition. But of all the genres jazz is the one solely about its sound, one that transcends looks, cars, clothes and hairstyles. Cultural pride is righteous but assigning racial labels to individuals or groups in an attempt to somehow explain, define or symbolically organize their behavior is the absurdity of racism itself. Detlof, does a turntable sound white due to its creative origin? Beethoven isn't great because of where or when he lived. Genius is genius. Some cats can play and some can't. |
Hm, Rockvirgo, I would fully agree with your following sentence, which I incidentally find very well put, that "assigning racial labels to individuals or groups in an attempt to somehow explain, define or symbolically organize their behavior is the absurdity of racism itself." But please do not forget, that I was alluding to a time, which incidentally I am still acutely aware of, but which lies now almost 50 to 60 years behind us. Every generation interprets history, especially cultural history according to its own needs and values and what you rightly call cultural myopia now, was then within the very cradle of modern jazz seen, lived, interpreted and understood quite differently. And you're not quite right I feel, though Beethoven would be Beethoven wherever he lived and worked, his music would be not the same, had he composed in London or St.Petersburg and not in Vienna. Just as much as Handel's compositions do - at least in part - reflect the needs and tastes of the London society of his time.
My turntable is black and sounds black if thus fed by the way. (; |
Perhaps my view and take is somewhat skewed here as I was in the business with CBS/Columbia and knew many of the names menetioned in this thread. Yep old geezer now, but the fire and memories of this time burn very deep. And some of the back water stories I could tell would warrant a book. Most respondents here are not of that era, but I lived a bunch of it first hand. Even in the days of segragation it was always about the music. On many occassions Dave Brubeck would turn down a TV appearance or live concert date, because in the contract they did not want to have Eugene Wright on camera or on stage. Brubeck would not allow this to happen to his friend. Eugene "The Senator" Wright was a valued member of the quartet and deserved as much recognbition as any other member of the quartet. And that is just one instance of long before integration where fellow jazz musicians defended each other. And lets not forget the jazz clubs on the other side where white musicians were not welcome. But through it all in those days it was the jazz musicians the held together and pushed the boundries of humanity against some very steep odds. Thankfully those days are behind us and never to be repeated. Trust me on this the records labels were color blind, once again the focal point was the music and the artist. So in the final analysis good ole american jazz is a multi-culutural affair that has withstood all the obstacles and has become our true art form to enjoy. |
"So in the final analysis good ole american jazz is a multi-cultural affair that has withstood all the obstacles and has become our true art form to enjoy."
..and so it has become and I don't think your view is skewed at all, but as I mentioned, the beginnings were difficult and much of the mood of the music in those years expressed those difficulties very clearly. There were more musicians than Brubeck who tried to bridge the gap, win trust, respect and recognition, but it took time. |
I recall that Nat King Cole had a 15 minute TV show in the early 50's but that was short lived because no company was willing to stand up and sponsor the show.I also recall that the early group harmony sound prior to do-wop could not be heard on white run radio stations but these hardships are not why Nat Cole's music lives on.It was his talent and talent does not have a color |
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"And so it has become.........."
And so it has, however I reject the proposition that any discussion of the CULTURAL roots of any music are in some way latent expressions of racism.
Music is what it is. Racism is what it is. They have no relationship to each other. Anyone who understands the history of the world, the nations, and their peoples, appreciates their contribution to where we are to day. Skin color isn't much more than that of geographical accident and evolution.
We should learn to better appreciate the benefits of multi-culturism but not, in order to be PC, exclude discusions of its origins, its developements, its participants and their contributions, as well as personal preferences for music by different performers and cultures at different periods of time.
For example I love the African drumming! Can't really appreciate all of those drum solo's in most jazz....it ain't the same. I love jazz vocalists, especially when it is infused with a natural (culteral perhaps) feeling for the song - emotional, evolving... like Eva Cassidy singing "Wading in the Water (how was that for PC - didn't say of our modern singers, Mary Stallings, Laverne Butler, Rene Marie) I love that style. Is it coincidental that most of the singers of this style are Black. I don't think so, but its not because of their skin, its is IMHO because of their cultural roots of the music.
Some folks listen to Danny Boy and think aim't it beautiful....Some think, ah a protest song by those Irishmen who hated the Englishmen who invaded and oppressed them for so many centuries, I think of Eva Cassidy! Who is right? We are all right, it is beautiful, it was a very sad sad expression of the oppressed, and Eva's version brings tears to my eyes. We are all right and what we have in common is the appreciation of the music, the appreciation of its history, and the appreciation of a great rendition.
I'll get off my box now - excuse the rant.
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That was beautiful Newbee! Thanks for taking the time and effort. |
"You guys forgot Kenny G."
... and Herb Albert???? |
Ken Burn's Jazz documentary is the most recent and definitive accounting of the history of Jazz, is it not? |
I am always amused at the writings of Ken Burns and Leonard Feather as well. Both are for the novice to learn about jazz, but no one has ever written a complete definitive accounting and if anyone does, no one will publish and if it is published, the lawyers will have a field day with it in court. About twenty years ago I started just such a project from an insider point of view. However family counsel as well as outside counsel, after they had read what was the rough draft, was advised not to proceed further.
So do read the Ken Burns and Leonard Feather documentary on jazz and be happy with that. It is in my opinion the best we have for now and I do respect them for their effort. |
My parents have always had great taste in music and that certainly extended to the Jazz they listened to. I must have been four or five when "Song for My Father" came out and was placed on heavy rotation on the old Garrard. Joe Henderson's tenor solo on the title cut is still one of my absolute favorites. |
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Frank Zappa's pieces "Twenty small cigars" and "Blessed Relief"...and then, Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" |
Dave Brubeck was the first jazz I heard on my parents' stereo. It was the only jazz album they had as far as I know. I must have played the record (Time Out) 5 times the first day I heard it, and that many times a day for the next week. Guess I broke the '24hr rule.' |
bill evans at the village vanguard
i must have listened to jazz for over a decade before i really thought of it as a genre. as a child i suppose i thought jazz was dixie land rags. i probably had to hear gracan moncur III or eric dolphy before i knew what i was listening to was jazz.i listened to music i found difficult and unlikeable to my tastes. now they are basically my tastes.i love jazz. i started by accident and effort with bill evans, sunday at the village vanguard. 6/25/61. i can't even get the date out of my head! |
Same as T_bone, Brubeck,but I heard it on my parents radio-stereo combo (and old Fisher). What struck me were the time signature changes, as well as the sound of the combo.--Mrmitch |
