Dear Halcro: Between so many cartridges I own and so many that I even not ready listened one of them is the 7V that I bought second hand ( years ago ) for a very low price.
I can't comment anything about its quality performance till I can hear it. Btw, according to VE/LP 35cu is the static compliance and the dynamic is 7cu at 100hz that at the usual 10hz is higher but not 35cu. Maybe the non-match with your FR could be for additional reasons that is weird because your Signets performs very good with that tonearm. Anyway, we know there are no precise rules on the subject.
I know that we loose nothing testing different AT stylus with different cartridges and is fun to do it but maybe we need to re-read what Dlaloum's research and experiences on the subject pointed out, IMHO he is the only person in this thread that take it that subject more in deep/seriously and its conclusions were really interesting.
No, I don't take the 7V for now because finally we made the last ( I really hope. ) " touches " to our tonearm design and I have to run several tests with other cartridges that I know very well where to compare with what I heard and have writed about. Obviously those cartridges are ( between others ) the ones I made an official review and obviously the B&O.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Halcro, your post about the AT-7V has given me pause--in particular the comparative statement made about your Empires and the Technics. Wow.
If it isn't too much trouble, would you be able to comment a little bit about the ways in which you prefer this AT to your Empires and Technics? Is this conclusion based on using the stock stylus, or using the vintage 155LC stylus?
In my case since 'rediscovering' vintage MM/MI/MF cartridges a few years ago (due to this thread) I have avoided AT (and Signet) cartridges because of over-familiarity I developed for those that I used exclusively in the 70s and 80s. But your post about the AT7V gives me pause, as I mentioned!
Regards and thank you for any additional insight, Jim |
but good one with the Audio Technica, such is life.
R. |
Dear friends: Reading this thread: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1306982565&&&/What-are-your-favorite-phono-cartridges-
I counted ten posts between the 29 ( Jfrech latest one. ) total that speaks on MM/MI cartridges. Not bad at all it is around 35% and no one of us posted there yet.
IMHO the number of persons ( for various reasons, between them: un-expensive. ) ) that will own MM/MI cartridges will grow-up and I think that the MM/MI analog source alternative will be on disadvantage against what really can shows till phono stage designers really take care about and will design properly dedicated MM/MI phono stages with the options this alternative ask for.
Anyway, the alternative is really alive, even that I don't think that in the near future could even the success of the LOMC through the AHEE till this AHEE decide is worth$$$ to do it.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Halcro, All I am saying is that if some medium mass tonearms sound good with a given cartridge and some others in the same category do not sound good, then the cause is unlikely to be related to effective mass per se.
Dear Raul, Would rather not reveal the cost of the Silvaweld "in public". I will send you an email. |
Lewm: THak you, appreciated.
R. |
Regards, Thuchan. Masquerade, indeed. Is it so transparent? There go my plans for taking over the world.
Interestingly, you comment on litzendraht wire. Not a fan of litz wire either, I took some time to find out why. Like most things, time has unlearned much.
IIRC, litz (coated & woven) wire has an advantage in resisting EM/RF interference, but offers more resistance than simple twisted wire configurations, and at the lengths involved for headshell leads, EMI/RFI is not a concern. At increased DC voltages skin effect can be a problem, but IIRC again, the copper wire skin effect depth for frequencies at 60kHz is .025mm, and at 60Hz is over 3.0mm.
Good for the longer lengths in tonearm wireing if RFI is a factor but the "old school" solution was to twist the TA wiring in pairs, L & R, and then again as a bundle. It's the parallel wires/cableing that act as an antenna. This is off the "top of my head", and as Raul has noticed it is very thick and sometimes things come out with unintended consequences. Someone correct any inaccuracies, please. I do like the AT-6101 PCOCC leads and need to put a set on the very pleasing AT7V, which is, in "house sound" terms, neither AT or Signet. Very well voiced with the (IMHO excellent) 155LC stylus, which, as Halcro wrote, is about to vanish from the usual vendors.
You mentioned the TK3e (TK3ea?), might you please follow up on this when prepared to do so?
And that Guru thing. May I permanently defer the title to Raul, as well as a number of others? Except Henry. He'll be too busy as ambassador for the 7V to do any meaningful Guru work.
Peace, |
He'll be too busy as ambassador for the 7V to do any meaningful Guru work. LOL :-) It's all thanks to you my dear Professor.... Greetings Jim, My comments re: the 7V are with the 'stock' stylus assembly. The 155LC creates an entirely different 'cartridge' sound about which I shall write shortly. Firstly, an explanation of my preferences in cartridges (and audio generally), may go some way to illuminating my comments? To me, the midrange is the 'sine qua non' of all audio (reproduced or live). If the midrange is 'right', the rest are 'accessories'.......although the quality of the 'accessories' IMO, can explain the preferences for various components? In any 'live' event I have attended (particularly in intimate clubs), the 'impact' of the midrange.....particularly the human voice....is the first thing I notice. It hits you viscerally as the pressure-wave that it is, and it is almost always 'miked' or amplified. Even in tiny bars with a single singer at a piano, it is rare indeed to not have the voice amplified? And what is the sound of the unamplified electric guitar? And how can the unamplified human voice compete against a set of drums? This HP 'Absolute Sound' definition of "unamplified instruments in real space" has done perhaps more harm than good IMHO, and is generally irrelevant to 90% of the music we experience and like to listen to. But I digress. The reproduction of the midrange is the essential difference I hear, between MM cartridges and MCs. Generally, the ease, naturalness and palpability of the midrange with MMs seems to elude most MCs and those that manage it, can’t disguise the struggle to achieve it? Someone like J.Carr may be able to comment more technically (and convincingly) on this aspect, but it is easy to overlook when all one listens to is MCs…..just as one who listens only to digital can become accepting of the limitations therein? So basically Jim, my favourite cartridges recreate the midrange as a ‘pressure-wave’ with all the ease, prominence and three-dimensionality of the ‘real thing’. The attributes of the bass ‘foundation’ and the high-frequency extension and transparency together with the soundstage (left to right and front to back) combine to ‘elevate’ those worthy cartridges into my ranking system. The AT7V gets the midrange ‘right’. It is prominent, detailed, mellow, and spacious with a palpability that is a signature of the Signet range. It is no slouch in the frequency extremes either and in its overall presentation, I find it slightly less ‘coloured’ than the Empires (which I love) but more ‘coloured’ than the Technics EPC100Mk3 (which I find hard to really love). At the price of $130 with brand new materials and readily available stylus replacements, I find it a ‘no-brainer’ in the ‘highly recommended’ basket. Just remember to load it at 47K ohms (or even 40K) with its standard stylus and be very patient with all adjustments during the break-in period. Cheers Henry |
Dear Raul, I really don't know the differences between 'static' compliance and 'dynamic' compliance? All I know is that most of my cartridges have only one compliance figure stated....10x10-6 dyne for the XV1s ranging up to 30x10-6 dyne for the Empires so I imagine that these are 'static' compliance figures which compare to the 35x10-6 dyne published for the AT7V? Regards Henry |
Dear Thuchan, I love my Signet TK-3/155LC as well. This was my first introduction to the 'Signet' sound and, as you say......it provides punch and pressure. Enjoy Henry |
Greetings Professor (Timeltel), You really are predictable in ‘rushing’ into the 155LC transplant on your AT7V :-) When you have some time, I implore you to go back to the stock stylus and give it some time to form some impressions as I am now doing with the 155LC stylus in the 7V. This has really been a shock to me after the 7V had completely run-in for several days (every day it sounded differently and needed tweaking until it settled).
Previously I had believed that a cartridge had a ‘basic’ sound due to the design of its ‘engine’ and that the stylus shape and cantilever materials and suspension merely added refinements? When I pugged in the 155LC into the 7V body, everything was different. 1. The gain was significantly lower than the stock stylus requiring the volume knob to be turned to compensate. This is understandable if the moving magnet attached to the stylus assembly is less powerful? 2. The loading needed to be increased from 40K Ohms to 60K Ohms similar to my vintage Signets. 3. The VTF had to be decreased to 1.0Gm from the 1.7Gm used with the stock stylus. 4. The VTA and SRA had to be adjusted from those of the stock.
And then the sound?……..an entirely different animal. More different to my ears than if I had swapped in an entirely different brand of cartridge. Did I like it more than the stock? No…..but I am giving it a few days for my ears to adjust.
Now to you and Dlaloum, who have extensively researched and analysed the effects of stylus shape, cantilever material and suspensions, these changes must be understandable and vindication for all your postings, but could both of you please try to explain in ‘lay’ terms, why such vast differences are the responsibility of the stylus assembly? Cheers Henry |
Thank you very much, Henry, I believe your very articulate descriptions have provided me a workable understanding of how the AT7V fits where it does in your priorities. No doubt I'll be hearing one myself before too long, and thanks for all of this information!
An interesting tangent to all of this cartridge discussion may be listening preferences as defined by the listener. In my own case my listening is typically 100% acoustic music recorded in acoustic spaces, today via some lovely Bach Cantatas and some Rachmaninoff piano preludes. I do very little listening of amplified music, and of the 50 or so concerts I attend each year virtually none include any electrical amplification. This places my own musical preferences in perhaps the tiniest minority of all. And, this understanding makes me very much look forward to hearing where the AT7V might in my own aural world!
Thanks again.
Jim
|
Regards, Henry: Haven't had time to really sit down for positive evaluation, but I've raced through four styli to check for compatability. Other than the ATN155lc, the styli for the 7V, a 140lc, and a Signet minature elliptical have been tried for compatability. Surprisingly, the 140lc is the least preferable. Not sure what else I've in the stylus stash to fit, will see tomorrow.
The 155lc offers really fine retrieval of low-level detail and excellent timbre. The two ellipticals deliver a high level of energy, very similar performers in spite of the .7-.8gm VTF difference. Haven't sat down with the 7V/ATN140LC for fine tuneing, it is much better on the TK5(ea) engine, 900 Ohm output impedance instead of the 650 Ohm for the 7V, suspect there's a factor involving either cantilever resonance or a need for isolation I've not yet pinned down. Havn't tried different loading, headshells or leads either. Not quite home yet, "miles to go, before I rest".
Having great fun with the 7V, excellent in the upper-mids, good bass, extension with no glare in the hf's. Hasn't knocked the (finely tuned) TK7LCa off it's pinnacle yet, but it's still early in the game.
Peace, |
Dear Professor, Will you be so kind to put those Signet carts in some (ordinal) order for those of us who are ignorant about the brand or have problems to remember all the intricacys of the immense nomenclature of the AT brand? To me personaly it is like reading Hegel.
Kind regards, |
Dear Nicola, You can see most of the Signet variations on my Systems page, but before you begin an EBay hunt, please take the advice of a friend and purchase the AT7V. IMO you will hear all the 'magic' of the best Signets at a magical price. And Chris......if you are reading this.....I would suggest that you do the same? If you don't like what you hear, it will have cost you 'peanuts' and wasted little time? Cheers Henry |
Dear Timeltel, In your dissertation on wires Litzian, were you talking about headshell leads? IMO and IME, the best headshell lead is no headshell lead. Because of those poor quality connectors at the rear of the headshell and the poor connectors at the headshell/tonearm interface. I love the convenience of a detachable headshell, but my goal is to eliminate those physical two physical contact points that are in the signal path as a result of using any headshell. Raul runs leads direct from the cartridge to the rear of the tonearm (if not all the way to the preamp) and ignores those electrical contacts, which is a great idea that I plan to implement. |
Regards, Nandric:
There are two basic cantilever carriers (stylus assemblies, grips). Those with the round post at the base of the cantilever belong to the TK(x) series: TK1e is representative, it's corrolary in the AT brand is the AT120e. Next is their position in the hierarchy: 1, 3, 5, 7. Styli are identified, e (eliptical) and SU (Shibata). So, the TK7e would be the TOTL for the original offering, round post and the "big block" dimensions, which Raul has pronounced "ugly". Certainly not a beauty contest contender. Remember when asprin came in tins?
AT underwent a redesign sometime around the early '80's. The alignment post went from round to rectangular, the Signet brand followed suit. In the export line, if there are any cartridges remaining in their offerings with the round post after this "redesign", I'm unaware of it. In the interest of accurate information, if this is not so please advise. In both the AT and Signet lines the later cartridges were identified with the suffix "a", the numerical progression remained.
TK5e became the TK5ea and their apperance is reflected in the still available AT120ea, the AT440MLa, and the AT7V. Entry carts for both AT and Signet are usually of slightly higher output, the mounts are plastic. Metal mounts bonded to the engines are found in the higher end carts, those at the top are gold plated.
Signet offered four other options, the MR (maximun resolution) 5.0 cart, the AM (analog master), and the P-mounts. Their very finest, the TK9 and 10 are comprable to the AT22 through 25 and are exceedingly refined. Those with systems capable of supporting them speak in superlatives, everyone else wonders what the hell they're talking about. The same is true, I suspect, in the other direction, a subject that's always good for spirited discussion.
The AM series follows an AM10, 20 and through 50 progression. As typical, the AM10 is higher output, the TOTL AM50 with gold plated beryllium cantilever and the very finest styli, these offer a rich texture. The MR carts are detailed and highly resolving, there are several TOTL MR 5.0LC carts around, a report would be welcome.
So round post, TK1/3/5/7e or SU, big block. Square post, TK1/3/5/7(x)a, or AM and MR carts, apperance is similar to the currently available AT120ea/440MLa. Styli are interchangable within each category (MR styli are an exception), the listener will need to determine if it's an appropriate application. Many AT styli will interchange, be sure to research this before commiting, the TurnTableNeedles site is very useful.
BTW, a note of caution for users of these (AT/Signet) carts. On the surface of the cantilever "post" there is a small groove or notch. This engages a raise in the cartridge body and will wear if the stylus assembly is removed frequently. This will eventually loosen to the point the assembly needs to be held in place with an aid such as blu-tack. A loose or easily removed assembly is evidence of a much used cart, not of poor construction. The suggestion is to remove the stylus only if required.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
|
Dear Halcro: +++++ " live with the AT-7V over the Empires, the ZYX Universe, the Dynavector XV-1s, the AT-20SS and possibly even the Technics EPC-100Mk3 " +++++
I'm trying to understand your statement especially when you refer to the 20SS and Empire.
I know you put on sale the 20SS on February and sold it so you did not had the opportunity to compare the 20SS against the 7V at the same time. In the other side your 20SS came with a non-original stylus but an after market one that shows you its poor " pedigree ", something similar with the TK10ML that if I remember was not the MK2 edition. For the 4000D3 is important to note that the cartridge was designed to run at 100k along 150pf on total capacitance and you can match this in your system when the 7V is well system matched.
IMHO could be a little unfair for the other cartridges made comparisons with " unknow parameters ", more on this latter.
Regrads and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Henry, I was not able to find the AT 7 V. But thanks to you and Herr Professor I already bought the Signet TK 5E. I own some kind of hand-microscope (50x) and am very impressed with the cantilever/ stylus combo. In the meanwhie I installed an separat system (in my bedroom) to check all the carts I conquested on ebay. My Basis Exclusive is a pain in the a. to change carts. In Holland we ask 'butter by the fish' so you should provide the address for the AT 7V.
Regards, |
Regards, Lew: Just caught your post, as usual you are correct on all counts. Vacancy in vice guru position. Long hours, no pay. Want the job?
Gotta' go for a bit, levee on one of the ponds needs maintenance (Walden #1), muskrats have turned it into a really big seive. Who would have thought keeping things "pastoral" required so much attention. I do, however, get to play with the tractor :^)!
Peace, |
Dear friends: Around 18 months ago Dertonarm start the thread: " Establishing a common analog listening bias ".
He did it for very good reasons where I agree with him on the main thread subject. Unfortunately through that thread we did not achieved that very good, important and critical idea that could give all of us a precise and ceratin " environment " of what we report on audio items quality performance level through comparisons in between.
I posted ( between others. ) this as an example ( not the bible, only and example. ) of what Dertonarm was asking for:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1246451558&openflup&93&4#93
and here the Dertonarm answer to that post:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1246451558&openflup&96&4#96
IMHO and at least when we make cartridge comparisons could be useful that all of us could have a " small idea " what each one is talking about through those comparisons.
Having a " common listening bias " will permit that each one of us could confirm what each one of us are saying and understand the differences of what each one of us are listening.
This has nothing to " see " on what each one of us " like " or each one priorities but what is on the recordings/tracks we choosed for that " common listening bias ". IMHO if we can achieve that target here everything can be more easy and understable for all and I can tell you that could be less/lower " no-sense " disagreements.
I think too that that " common listening bias " subject could be enriched if we understand the whole listening process tests.
What mean I about?, well as many of you know I have a simple method/process for test not only cartridges but almost any audio item. In each audio item I test I follow step by step my listening test process, always. Through this process experiences I know exactly what to look for even the tone of the clicks/pops on the tracks used during the test process, this gives me a very good plattform to make audio item quality performance level judgements.
The process does not involve only the same tracks always but other same parameters like ( between others ): even the SPL on the audio items under comparisons, tests at different SPL at seat position, obviously the right set up including loading, etc, etc.
That's why I almost always report the different parameters where the audio items/cartridges were each one surrounded ( tonearm, headshell type, VTF, capacitance, SRA, tec, etc. ).
IMHO, that any one of us say this one is better than the other almost means nohing because does not exist a precise and certain " reference frame " where we could understand in better way to what other person is refering it, IMHO could be useful to give a more Objective " frame/means " to what we are talking about over those subjective opinions that we are so entilted.
I invite all of you to comment on the whole subject, to give ideas and participate to BUILD this Common Listening Bias.
Your Call!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Raul, I alas missed this thread but it looks to me a very good idea. I also think that a list 5 LP's will be adequate as some kind of 'frame of reference' to all of us. I myself am only familiar with classical music so not the right person to make any suggestions. But you are a kind of musical 'omnivore' so you can propose 5 LP's to begin with. Those should be of course available for the purchase and I assume that every one can afford them. The others can then make their own suggestions till we arrive at some consensus.
Regards, |
Dear Nikola
"My Basis Exclusive is a pain in the a. to change carts."
Time for another armpod - for close to the price of a AT 7V you can have a self made brass armpod but need to do the labor of drilling the screw holes.
Hearing music from something you helped make is very satisfying.
Cheers Chris |
Hi Henry - you said
“To me, the midrange is the 'sine qua non' of all audio (reproduced or live).
If the midrange is 'right', the rest are 'accessories'.......although the quality of the 'accessories' IMO, can explain the preferences for various components?”
I totally agree with you.
“The AT7V gets the midrange ‘right’.” Sounds like this AT7V with its "midrange" is a lot like a Quad 57 ?
How can I refuse if it is going to bring me "midrange nirvana" from both ends ?
We just need to break her in a bit.
Thx for the tip.
Cheers Chris |
Nandric, Thought you had a Kuzma Reference, not a Basis Exclusive. Or do you own one of each?
Raul, Your and Dertonearm's goal is a lofty and desireable one, but I view it/viewed it as virtually unobtainable, because the principles among us live thousands of miles apart and on the surface seem to have wildly different listening biases, based on the vast differences among us in our choices of gear. To have a common understanding, we each need to have heard the others' systems, I think. For example, I have a dear friend here in my area who like me prefers ESL speakers and tube amplifiers. I know the sound of his system quite well. Consequently, when he tells me that he likes or does not like the sound of a particular piece of gear or software, I know instantly exactly what he "means", in the sensory sense of the verb. I have two other local friends with disparate tastes in gear, but I have heard their systems many times, and we do have a common ground for a conversation. In contrast, I can only imagine how your system sounds. And my imagination may not be so accurate. Over years of reading his reviews, I think I arrived at an understanding of what kind of sound HP prefers, and I concluded that he and I have little in common on that score. Subsequent conversations with persons who know him personally suggest to me that my perception of his perceptions is essentially accurate. In other words, this takes a lot of time, if one cannot have direct access to the other guy's system. I am only beginning to have a vague idea of your biases based on listening to cartridges that you like and reading your description of their sound. That is, if you can own up to having any biases. |
Dear Nikola, Herewith.....the butter AT7VCheers Henry |
I have only read parts of this extensive post so forgive me for asking. Is it wise to buy a used cartridge? My local dealer says it is like putting used tires on your car. They are worn a certain way on the previous turntable and may not be aligned or tracking as it should on a different TT. I just sold my MC and will replace it with a Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood. |
Dear Blueskiespbd: The comparison that made your dealer can't IMHO apply to the cartridge subject that's more complex than that.
Anyway, here is what you want it:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1311686843&/Clearaudio-Virtuoso-wood-
Btw, there are some great cartridges that the only way to put your hands on it is: second hand!.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Ct0517/Halcro: +++++ " Hi Henry - you said
“To me, the midrange is the 'sine qua non' of all audio (reproduced or live).
If the midrange is 'right', the rest are 'accessories'.......”
I totally agree with you. " +++++
I respect what both of you think on the subject but I disagree for very good reasons that I will explain latter ( I don't have time in this moment. ) IMHO there is a misunderstood on what happen live against what happen at home with reproduced audio.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Hi Chris, You certainly have the midrange 'champ' with your Quad 57s. With the Empire and AT7V you must be careful to avoid 'midrangeitis'? I hear it's a particularly pleasant way to overdose :-) Cheers Henry |
Dear Raul, My AT-20SS Limited Edition had a brand new LPGear original replacement stylus (bought by me), and that was the only stylus I ever listened with. Before selling it, I broke the stylus by clumsily 'crushing' it in its cartridge case. This I have told you previously but you continue to ignore the fact. The Signet TK-10ML had either an original stylus or a genuine replacement. Your ability to determine the quality that others hear in their systems, from either pictures or brand names is truly outstanding? Yet you are apparently unable to 'remember' the sound of all your cartridges and previous equipment unless you have them actually playing in your current system? I can remember the sound DNA of all my previous cartridges stretching back 35 years as well as the sound of all my previous preamps and amps. If that is beyond your capabilities, it is indeed a disturbing admission?
I am fully aware that the Empires are designed to be loaded at 100K Ohms but I am currently only able to load them up to 60K Ohms and yes......I can hear that they actually would benefit from the extra loading. However, since most others with MM phono stages have a fixed 47K Ohm loading with no ready ability to change, it would be foolish to deny them the joys of listening to vintage MM cartridges? Almost all my vintage MMs benefit from the higher 60K loading but current models I believe (especially the AT7V), are designed perfectly for 47K. |
Dear Lewm, Because of those poor quality connectors at the rear of the headshell and the poor connectors at the headshell/tonearm interface. This is another case I believe, of 'theory' trumping 'practice'? Firstly I don't accept the statement that those connectors are necessarily "poor quality"? Any proof for this? Secondly........this 'theory' of unbroken phono cables from cartridge pins to phono stage has been accepted by virtually all the 'high-end' modern tonearm manufacturers in the last 20 years with what success? I have 2 'modern' arms with 'unbroken' phono cables and I have 1 modern arm (the Phantom) with arm-wand connectors as well as DIN phono cable connectors. I have 5 vintage arms with DIN phono cable connectors as well as removable headshells. If your 'theory' is correct, the 'modern' arms with unbroken cables should trounce the other arms? This is far from the case and with some examples, the reverse is truer. The Phantom II, with its 2 extra 'connectors', is often the 'reference arm' for high-end reviewers. I do however agree that we should be aware of the possible benefits of the 'theory' and I have found that the removable headshell made by Yamamoto (HS-1AS) which has its cartridge wires soldered to the headshell pins rather than clipped on......sounds better to me on a larger range of cartridges than other headshells. How much of that is related to the better connector rather than the wonderfully light ebony wood and the strength and rigidity of the design I would not like to speculate? |
there is a grapevine that LpGear Original ATN20SS has lots of rust on the magnets. As a result the sounds lacks definition. |
Dear Lew, I own the whole ASR German artillery: Basis Exclusive phono-pre and the Emitter II Exclusive , both with battery supplay + transformers (+/- 200 kgr.). The Kuzma Stabi Reference is from my ex- brother Kuzma in Slovenia ( former Yugoslavia). We will be hopefullly re- united in the EU so, as is usualy the case on the Balkans, we were fighting for nothing ; pure fight passion that is.
Dear Henry, I got the 'butter' already from Chris and bought the AT 7V yesterday. I was searching on ebay.com twice...As some old chess master stated:'there are obvious boundarys to human mind but human stupidity is without boundary'. Kind regards to both, |
Hi Henry – Midrangeitis – you make it sound like a disease – this whole hobby is one big disease and anyone that has taken some time to read a certain percentage of these posts is afflicted with it whether you post here or not – actually the ones that don’t post have it worse – for they are unable to express their feelings and let it out. Post away I say. Its all in fun – except for Raul – he is the only one I think (I could be wrong) that is keeping a straight face here – but that is why he is our guru here from what others have said – someone needs to steer the big MM ship here while the crew play. Raul – that is a compliment on your passion, your focus and resolve.
But Raul have you ever heard a sultry seductive female voice on properly functioning and placed Quad 57’s at 80 - 85 db. I realize we are talking about inanimate objects – but it comes close to audio adultery. These 57’s have been helping me to get through my work week away from home to when I can get home to get relief in my vinyl room aka to my family as “the Panic Room” and / or “Dads Hole”.
Cheers Chris |
Dear Chris, There is a big difference between voluntary and unvoluntary disease. Not sure however where to put being in love because it can happen both ways. Anyway nobody can force you to mess with the analog hobby. But if you are looking for excuses you can find as many as you like. Then there is this obssesion about the question what the most important 'thing' , 'issue' or whatever is. The implication is that there must be a priori a single one. How about those who like blonds, brunettes and even the reddish -brown kind? This philosophy is known since Aristotels and is called the 'essencialism' but makes no sense at all ( see Quine's 'fetherless biped'). Now I own the Usher BE-20 with very good midrange. Should I then pull those expensive Eton bass-speakers out to keep the 'essence' in pure form? What then about the keynots or fundamentals? Then there are also high frequencys assumed to be also important for at least for the harmonics. I am sorry for your Quad 57 but they lack on both 'extrimes' is probable the reason that thy are not any more in production.
Regards, |
Henry You are probably right about the empire and AT 7v and those speakers – this project is just ideas right now. I have been searching 6 months for an sp10 or other similar quality platter/motor for that location. The TNT is too cumbersome to move - now leaning to try an idler to see how it keeps speed with an armpod. Cheers Chris |
Dear Nikola
“How about those who like blonds, brunettes and even the reddish -brown kind?
The Quad 57 have blonde hair. The Acoustats have reddish brown hair. The 801's are brunette. :^)
Quad 57's are very much in production. You just dont go to a retail store to get them. My PK panel model do 40 hz and lack nothing on the high end.
Cheers Chris |
Dear Halcro: +++++ " Yet you are apparently unable to 'remember' the sound of all your cartridges and previous equipment unless you have them actually playing in your current system? I can remember the sound DNA of all my previous cartridges stretching back 35 year.... " ++++
Two issues: I don't have your habilities about and second I try not give a " ligthly " opinion on any audio item: if I can I like to heard it " fresh " against what I'm making comparisons.
I trust is several of you opinions but everytime I had/have the opportunity I like to confirm " fresh " about.
It is not only that as you and everyone my system ( time to time ) improve due to changes " here and there " but that I " fine tunning " overtime my audio items tests evaluation/" common listening bias " process.
I like to be sure always that I can before I give any opinion in this Agon forum or in anyother one. Everyone that recommend or give and audio item opinion on quality performance level has a serious responsability to the persons that read it and IMHO we have to take care about.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Siniy123: +++++ " there is a grapevine that LpGear Original ATN20SS has lots of rust on the magnets. As a result the sounds lacks definition. " +++++
this is part of the " price we have to pay " with vintage/out of production cartridges.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Lewm, regarding the old topic about contacts, maybe too many contacts in a signal line I remember those discussions since 20 years ago until today stating that every additional contact is disturbing or bringing down the quality of the signal. it is true when you have resistors in between like with some adaptors but using high quality silver like in the UNI-switch or as another example Ikeda silver in good headshells with proper working contacts you'll find no difference in a well balanced chain.
I am very cautious what kind of headshells and litz I am using and - yes, Halcro is right going for specially matched headshells with good contacts. I do hear a difference between a good and matching silver line - starting from the tonearm cable through the tonearm inner wiring via the headshell litz to the cart - and a mixed line with simple ( or very old ) copper wiring and headshell litz.
I do believe if someone does not hear this difference in his system given the two preconditions ( here: silver, copper) are being implemented on his units he may not be able to hear a difference between various headshells and headshell litz. In this case it does not matter what kind of quality the connectors are, if you avoid connectors or not and how many connections you have.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Timetel, it's a TK3E with the original 2 stylus.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Regards, Nandric: I hope you enjoy the AT7V. A cartridge that does everything nicely, and at this price point a welcome addition to my collection. One of the things I'm appreciating is the even distribution of response. The bass lacks the "gravitas" of the Acutex LPM 315, the sparkle of the Grace F9-E, or the beautious midrange of the TK7LCa, but neither does it dissapoint in any of these areas, there are no distractions derived from disproportionate emphasis (not to say the mentioned excellent carts commit this fault, either). Good dynamics and punch where needed, and just a hint of effervesence. An ascerbic performer, it isn't.
The 7V might perhaps be viewed relative to Hegle's comment (since I now know you enjoy Hegle): "The learner always begins by finding fault, but the scholar sees the positive merit in everything". And, I'm finding, there are many positives to be heard with the 7V. For $125 Henry's found a really good one. I'd not hesitate suggesting it. Greatness in a cartridge can be found, but they're usually slightly higher.
Peace, |
Dear Nandric: Good suggestion to start " somewhere " the building of the " Common Listening Bias ".
IMHO this " building " means to me something like " build a building/edifice " where you can't do it by your self, you need the help of several experts on buildings and a lot of workers.
You and me IMHO are not enough " workers " to build that building, at least not to finish this " century ". That's why I opened an invitation to everyone is interested on the overall subject that not only could help us in between but very important is that could help each one of us with each one audio system to confirm where we are " seated " , if changes to the system were really improvements or drwback and many more.
I think we have to wait for the other people collaboration.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
It is hard to believe a budget AT cartridge is as good as the TOTL models that were tried and then talked about on this thread. And Audio Technica's current high end MM cartridge the 150 MLX must be overpriced because I can get the better one (AT 7V) for $130.00? As I understand it now (according to some) the AT/Signet TOTL models are bettered by their cheaper versions?
I really liked the AT ML 170, if this AT 7V is close to that it's a steal for that price. |
Dear Lewm: +++++ " goal is a lofty and desireable one, but I view it/viewed it as virtually unobtainable, because the principles among us live thousands of miles apart and on the surface seem to have wildly different listening biases, based on the vast differences among us in our choices of gear. To have a common understanding, we each need to have heard the others' systems, I think..... " +++++++
I understand you but could be interesting if you think that today we have nothing at hand on that complex subject, so the CLB could be a good " place " to start. No it is not the whole solution but IMHO we need to take some kind of action to build that " road " or any other that could help on the CLB meaning.
In the other side, I posted in that CLB proposal:
+++++ " This has nothing to " see " on what each one of us " like " or each one priorities but what is on the recordings/tracks we choosed for that " common listening bias ". " +++++++
and this is true, we are not talking of what we like it or not even could be that the LPs we choosed to start to build that CLB don't like us. The subject is try to have a more objective " frame " common for all of us.
Example, if we determine that in a recording track we have to hear ( this is one of the standards we determine for the CLB process. Please don't think in this moment how can we choose those standards. One step at its time. ), a solid " plink " when the drumer-player ( in that track ) hit the right-hand Cymbal and you instead heard only an " sshh " then you will know something is wrong somewhere and if after re-check the system set-up you still hearing the " ssshhh " instead that solid " plink " then that cartridge or that audio item or your system has no the resolution need it to be aware of that CLB standard.
The CLB process is not so simple as some of you could think. This process that I followed and follow from years is simple for me because I have a deep knowledge on it. So we have to work, this is not a " plug and play " tool but what IMHO it is: is the most useful audio tool you ever imagine you need it.
I'm not saying that the CLB process is 100% objective, has a subjective " weight " too but lower than what almost all are using it.
Of course that a CLB subject could take out from each one of us audio opinions the " full " force that has the today full subjective weight our opinions have ( don't be affraid about. ). When someone post: " that's how I like it " or " I heard it and is better than " that " and I like it more ", no one can argue about even if that person is totally wrong or if it is obvious for any one he is wrong.
The target is not to find out who's wrong or who's has the reason, far away from there: the main CLB target is that each one of us could understand in a better way the " meaning " on other people opinions as to make more easy that other people be aware more " deeply " what each one of us are talking about and that the audio items under " review/comparison " be against the same full process/tests. That the differences has a more certainty that what we have today with out that CLB process: IMHO our each " judgement " will improve a we can be " better " and better day after day.
All people collaborations ( you included. ) are welcome!, even " collaborations " against the CLB.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Raul, I thought we were talking about, say, 5 LP's which each of us should own as a 'common reference' in our discussion about MM carts. This to me looks like an fantastic idea and I also assume that each of us can afford those 5 LP's so the most members can participate. Your 'common listing bias' is not clear to me and, to be honest, I don't like any 'bias' at all. But if anyone refers to, say, Lento assai from Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances, we all can check and listen to the same piece and hopefully will grasp what the other member means with his statement. Anyway we will then listen to the same music.
Dear Professor, I had the illusion to own the best MM cart in the actual world thanks to Halcro but you already destroy my illusion while I bought this object of desire just 2 days ago. As if this is not enough you are also teasing me with Hegel. I have read all the 600 pages of his 'Science of logic' but was not able to understand one single sentence. But 30 years later I was well able to understand that there is not one single sentence in this work that has any relevance for the modern logic ( since Frege). What a waste of time.
Regards, |
Nandric, A belated apology. I was of course thinking of the Basis turntable line, not of the German-made Basis electronics. I understand now. |
As if this is not enough you are also teasing me with Hegel. I have read all the 600 pages of his 'Science of logic' but was not able to understand one single sentence. Paraphrasing an eminent contemporary philosopher, "Hegel is long and life is short: I choose life." Nikola, I have an example of an even greater act of futility: I read nearly 2000 pages (3 volumes) of Hegel's 'Lectures on the Philosophy of Religion' without fully comprehending even 1 page. On the other hand, discussing it made for good fun because one could say just about anything and no one would try to contradict since no one understood enough to construct a cogent counterargument. |
Dear Nandric: Change that " bias " word, I took direct from the Dertonarm thread title, that's all. That word is not important, the Common Listening " approach " ( you name it. ) overall process/test is the important subject.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |