Hi bimasta, While I think that Raul is very sensitive for flattering he is even more interested in demonstrating his knowledge and believe in distortions. So it should not matter if he likes you or not . The paradox is the amount of contributions in his own thread. He can't react at all of them. Even the Mexican needs some sleep. |
I’d like to get back to discussion about wonderful Grace cartridges. I’m a bit surprised to discover (sorry i’m late) that popular Ruby version of F9 has conventional elliptical profile, same as F-9E. So the difference between F-9E and F9-E Ruby is just the cantilever and more attractive design/look of the Ruby sylus replacement assembly compared to others. When the Grace invented their superb F14 BE / LC-OFC series (unfortunately only to sell in Japan in 1984) it was based on F9 generator (later improved in LC-OFC models), but supplied with the most advanced styli (Micro Ridge) and the most expensive cantilevers (Boron along with Sapphire and Ruby). In the earlier versions of the F-14 BR/MR Grace used rare Ceramic and beryllium cantilevers. I wish i could find them. Here is a link with full info about grace cartridges. However, even in F-9 seriers Grace already used the most advanced styli, but ONLY in two models: Grace F-9F (Shibata / Discrete 4) and Grace F-9U (Line Contact, Utility 4). So why search for overpriced Ruby if it was just elliptical? Why pay to SoundSmith for his line contact if the original Utility 4 Grace F-9U is in fact Line Contact I have both F-9F and F-9U, but i will keep only one, here is another picture of my F-9U and here is a picture of the line contact stylus of my NOS F-9U. Between the F-9 and F-14 grace has improved F-8 series by inventing Level II models (based on F8 generator) and athe best of LEVEL II cartridges supplied with Micro Ridge styli on Beryllium, Sapphire, Ruby and Aluminum cantilevers. Level II cartidges also devided by MR/MR and LC-OFC. So why wasting time with elliptical versions of Grace if there are plenty of much better options? |
Dear @bimasta: ""
I don't think Raul likes me... ""
From where or why did you take " that "? , never mind the only kind of persons I don't like it are the dishonest/lier ones.
The earlier P8ES and the latest one P25MD share exactly the same kind of design on that subject you are talking about but the P25MD is a little better performer because its Analog 6 unique stylus shape.
The Nova VDH II came out to the market 4 years after the 25MD.
I own a lot of AKG ones , including the top P100 LE, many of them out of work because its suspension problem but I have in good condition the one you own, the P25MD and the Nova VDH 2.
Some people try to find out the Nova thinking is a better performer but it's not. The 25MD with its Analog 6 stylus performs at the same level and overall I prefer it over the Nova.
As I said all these models share the TS AKG design.
Now, """
then the only information transmitted to our amps and speakers will be the vibrations in the stylus directly caused by the groove modulations, and no other extraneous movements or causes. ""
"""
it strikes me a truly novel approach, possibly a breakthrough .. """
I agree with your second statement and " so so " with the first one because one thing is that we can detect the cantilever macroscopic movements and the other is what in reality is happening down there: stylus tip/grooves tracking where exist the more hardest " forces "/movements we can even imagine including that side to side ones.
Ovbiously that The AKG TS design try to put at minimum that kind of generation distortion movements and with out doubt this is something really good for us.
In the other side, today or past cartridge designers/builders is for sure they knew this kind of design and maybe they did not gave the need it importance for its designs or maybe becuase can goes against his own cartridge design.
I like AKG.
Regards and enjoy the music, R.
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Chakster, AFAIK, Grace was the only company to use a .2 x .7 mil elliptical for 4-ch tracing. That minor radius is sufficient for required high frequency reproduction. Beryllium was phased out in early '80s due to highly toxic dust. It's interesting to compare properties of the various cantilever types now available. I believe J Carr helped us out with this information around 30 pages ago. Regards, |
Dear Fleib, ''It's interesting to compare properties of the various cantilevers now available''. J. Carr was talking in general about properties relevant for the cantilevers. I.e. about advantages and disadvantages of different mateials. In this context he stated that the advantage of aluminum (alloy) is the fact that the stylus can be pressure fitted while in all other the stylus must be glued. However all cart producers are dependant from styli/cantilever producer which are very few at present. As you mentioned so often in the 80is much more superiour cantilevers were produced then at present. Not only (tubed) beryllium but also ''tubed'' boron pipes were made. Neither is available at present. One can see variations of sapphire cantilevers but Carr deed not like them. He deed not like how they sound but should also have objective reasons in the sense of properties reg. the question why. I , for example, noticed that he uses the same boron/stylus combo as Benz by LP S and Ruby 3. I own many MC from the 80is with thiner cantilevers than at present available. The paradox is then that we see astronomical prices for carts with mediocre cantilevers. |
@fleib AFAIK, Grace was the only company to use a .2 x .7 mil elliptical for 4-ch tracing. That minor radius is sufficient for required high frequency reproduction. It is not true, look at the official grace product catalog with all the models including F-9F and F-9U. On the second page in the right upper corner is clearly stated that F-9F is SHIBATA TYPE. You can also check this japanese website (translated with google) to find out that both F-9F and F-9U styli are elliptical LINE CONTACT (while the F-9F even described as light weight elliptical LINE CONTACT and it was the most expensive grace cartridge in 1975, the price was 25000 Yen). |
Chakster, Who else used a .2 x .7 mil elliptical for 4-ch. ? Regards, |
Dear @chakster : In those old times anything diferent from elliptical stylus tip was named " line contact or extended " till appeared the patented Shibata stylus tip. This is to say true Shibata shape not " Shibata type ". Audio technica used the 0.2 x 0.7 elliptical shape and true Shibata on its top of the line models and with both stylus tip you can enjoy the 4-channel recordings because I did it with. This looks as an offical grace catalogue, even comes in japanese language and you can't read any single reference to true Shibata stylus tip: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/grace/stereo-pickups.shtml Shibata type does not means true Shibata stylus shape. In the other side: """
So why wasting time with elliptical versions of Grace if there are plenty of much better options? """ but not only with Grace but by other vintage manufacturers. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
@nandric thanks Nikola, your Azzurra Esoter aka Glanz has arrived. I've never seen the original box with manual, it looks nice. |
Dear Chakster, Your dissection of the lineage of Grace cartridges is very informative. Thank you for that. But you imply strongly that one can know how a cartridge will sound based on knowledge of its stylus shape. One would only wish this were true. It would make this disease of audiophilia much easier to treat,
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Hi chakster, The Azzura is ordered by Glanz but there is no reference to any Glanz model. However I own the manual provided by my Glanz 31 L. According to which the most versions have the same generator. That is to say that the only difference is the stylus and complience. You can try the stylus of your 31 l in the Azzura and ''see'' if you can hear any difference. I got two samples from my Italian friend Valerio for free. My comrade Don got one and you the other as present. I never tested this one because I owned all Glanz top carts. |
Dear @lewm : Agree with you, stylus is only one important part of the overall cartridge design. The cantilever build material and shape is other way important factor on the quality level performance in any cartridge.
Yes, agree too that the @chakster Grace information is very informative for say the least.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Unfortunalety i don’t know the exact size of the Grace F-9U or F-9F diamond tip, but what i know for sure from the Grace documents (see page 2 of this doc. in description in the upper right corner) is that those styli are not the Elliptical like F-9E. The Grace called them "Shibata Type" (for F-9F) and "Elliptical Line Contact" (for F-9U). If anyone has original manual for f-9u or f-9f or any other catalog with provided stylys tip size please post it. I’m not trying to say that my F-9U or F-9F are the best cartridges ever. I’m just tryin’ to say they are rare and not widely available as conventional F-9E model, the styli on F-9U and F-9F are different from elliptical (the cantilevers are the same). I think for Rubby SoundSmith rebuild service is the way to go (with his optimized line contact), because the original Grace Ruby is Elliptical. Grace own "Shibata Type" (F-9F) and "Elliptical Line Contact" (F-9U) makes those two models very special. Only two Grace models comes with better stily than the elliptical in the whole F9 series of carts. And only Level II and F-14 models are better in this regard. Now let’s check more from SoundSmith website: PROPORTIONS
of the
SHIBATA design 6 x 75 um - Shibata "large" design 6 x 50 um - Shibata "small" design Rather than providing a small circular "dot" contact point with the groove, the more complex shape of the Shibata allowed a long vertical line of contact to be achieved with the groove wall. The result of contacting more of the groove wall was the achievement of the two primary goals. Through better wall contact tracking was improved and information retrieval improved (facilitating higher frequencies), and because the total contact surface area increased, the amount of pressure per square area was substantially reduced - less pressure equals less wear on both the record and the stylus. In actual fact the side radius of the Shibata is about the same as a 0.2 mil elliptical - so theoretically they have the same ability to trace high frequencies, but the elliptical only ever contacts the same small area - which can become worn - resulting in degradation in high frequencies. Playing back a record with a Shibata stylus which has been worn with a conical or elliptical stylus can result in near pristine sound - this is because the Shibata shape can "read" the groove wall in areas that were not contacted by the simpler stylus shapes. After the release of the Shibata, various competitors developed very similar shapes which were (and are) marketed under various names: Hyper Elliptical (various sizes!) Stereohedron 0.3 x 2.8 mil / 7 x 72 um LINE CONTACT (VARIOUS SIZES) Fine Line 8 x 40 um These are all much the same. EXOTIC STYLI: The next development was driven by a designer called Van Den Hull in Holland - using computer analysis he developed a stylus shape which replicated the head of the cutter used to make the original vinyl masters as closely as possible, while reducing the side radius further. This meant two things: 1) the reduction in side radius reduced distortion and improved tracking of the high frequencies, and 2) the increase in the length of the contact patch further reduced wear and increased longevity of stylus and record. This led to the next wave of stylus shapes, again known by various names: Micro Line 2.5 x 75 um Micro Ridge 3.8 x 75 um VanDenHull 4 x 70 um FritzGeiger 5 x 70 um SAS 2.5 x 75 um Paratrace 4 x 70 um P.S. I just checked the manual for my Stanton CS-100 WOS and realized the stereohedrom II stylys tip on this signature model is "something special" 5.3 x 76 which is slightly different from "large shibata", or like an extended FritzGeiger. The cantilever is sapphire coated. |
As someone who had his Grace Ruby rebuilt by SS with their OCL tip, I can attest that indeed the new stylus shape (or something else attendant to the rebuild) has made for a very noticeable improvement in the performance of the cartridge. For a "control", I own a second Grace Ruby that still has its original elliptical stylus. I was a big fan of the OEM Ruby, until I listened to the OCL-retipped version. Be forewarned that it takes 20-40 hours before the re-tip starts to really sing, however. At first, within the first few hours, I really had my doubts. |
Van den Hul never produced any stylus. But he deed design 3 kinds for Gyger and ''obviously'' stipulated by contract the right to sell them under his own brand name. However we have never heard about Van den Hul I, II and S while Gygers are so marked. The first two (I &2) were difficult to produce (aka ''polish'') so the they settled on the ''S'' . Benz used the ''S'' for a ong time byt recently moved to the ''micro ridge'' while, as far as I know, Allearts still uses the ''S''. The ''Gyger story'' was told in the German Magazine ''LP''. Van den Hul desribed his styli dimensions elswhere . I am not impressed by the styli shapes. Anyway I am not able to ''deduce'' enything from this , say, ''criterion''. I am very fond of FR-7 kinds the most of which have conical stylus. I am also very impressed by Andreoli's Magic Diamond which is also provided with conical stylus. Then I own Sony XL 88 and 44 L which use ''super elliptical'' (Raul is very fond of the 44 btw) . Then I own different Kiseki's (the Blue, the Silverspot and the Goldspot) which all use ''super elliptical''. And last but not least the Miyabi Standard with aluminum cantilever while I have no idea nor do I care what kind of stylus this one has. |
Dear @chakster : Yes, stylus shape can make a diference alwaysand yes elliptical shape was main stylus development a next to it Shibata and the latest real new develpment VDH thank's to Dr. AJ. Before all those spherical was the " name " and over the time the other main stylus developments and its derivatives from outperformed spherical ones.
Now, I think that some of the information that you gave us where exist advantages of " this " over " that " are what the theory says.
How much of that theory is acchieved under playback conditions?, we have to take in count that cartridges in reality can't match exactly the grooves tangency to track it where in otherside the grooves tracking quality level performance depends on several other main factors as: cantilever build materials and shapes, how the cantilever is atached to, type of suspension design, quality of stylus build, quality of the stylus polished tip, etc etc.
But, all in all diferent stylus shapes helps to improve quality performance or at least can makes a " difference ". I think is not easy to evaluate it for sure.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
AFAIK Grace was the only company who used a .2 mil ellip for 4-ch. Shibata was developed for the format - high frequency tracing. It's come back into vogue, and rightfully so IMO. Sweetens the high end, and if you noticed, Ortofon uses it on their TOTL popularly priced. fleib
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@fleib where did you get the info about the size of grace styli when it comes to their CD-4 models? Any links or documents available ? |
Chakster, I posted a bunch of vintage spec sheets although I'm not sure if Grace was among them. You can find the spec on VE database. Despite reports to the contrary, most of those specs are dead-on. I supplied some specs myself - mfg. data sheets. Look at the photo of the Pioneer PC 401 MC, a sweet little HOMC with user replaceable stylus. Good luck finding a stylus now though. The replacement was practically the entire generator, or so it looked. It also looked like it was made by AT. A .2 mil minor radius can track the high frequencies, but the question remains about the longevity of the rear channels. I don't really know, I never got into the format. Best Regards, |
There is ZERO information on VE database about GRACE size of the styli appart from what i already posted here where those top of the line CD-4 models described as SHIBATA TYPE (F-9F the most expensive) and ELLIPTICAL LINE CONTACT (F-9U), but no information about the exact size of the tip.
I have two Pioneer PC-1000 MK2 and they are among my favorite cartridges, it’s their best MM, also the most expensive one. |
Dear all, I have individual quality control test (prints) that comes with my NOS JVC Victor X-1II cartridge. I think this factory test illustrate very well how different loading works with MM cartridges. CLICK HERE for image.
Started off with 47K Ohm resistance on the first test print ... and with 100K Ohm on the second test where we can see a rising top end from 15kHz up to 25kHz. Any comments? 1.5g tracking force Capasitance is 100pF Cartridge output: 4mV (right channel) and 3.8mV (left channel).
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Dear chakster, I checked my sample for comparisson sake and found your first test as separate document included in the box while your second measuring example is included in the user manual. The output of my sample is: 3,4 mV L.channel and 3,2 mV R. channel. In the user manual both channels are ''idendical'': 3,3 mV. So there are obvious deviations in output which are not expressed in dB's but in mV. This may implay the need for an Left-Right volume ''regulator'' which is seldom to find in a phono- pre but well in (some?) pre-amps. |
Looking at those FR graphs for the different loadings of the X1-II Chakster....I hope you will realise that your liking for 100K Ohms loading is a subjective aberration which bears little relation to 'flat frequency response'.....🤔 |
@halcro maybe you’re right, but i don’t have this tests for all my MM cartridges. In fact i don’t have any cartridge that sounds better (imo) at 47kohm. Do you have some?
Next month i will get my Radian 850 tweeters with Clarity Caps from Zu Audio to made my final upgrade of Zu Druid MK4 speakers. I’m really looking forward! |
Chakster, My comment is to note that the units on those charts of FR are 0.1 db. None of us would ever hear 0.2 db (the rise in response seen in the R channel with 100K ohm loading), at those very high frequencies. Maybe this is not the right way to examine why the higher load sounds better to you; maybe there is another reason also based on the physics. |
Chakster, for years I ran many of my MM cartridges at 60K Ohms thinking they sounded better.....🤔 In the last three years I have found that virtually all of them sound better at 47K or lower..... There are probably only two or three left, out of 40....that I prefer at 60K Ohms 😎
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Luckily with my phono stage i can easily chose whatever load i want with MM or MC, but right now my experience is opposite than yours, we will see later when i'll be able to check more MM cartridges. |
I too am able to infinitely adjust the loading for my MM cartridges between 60K to 20K Ohms 'on-the-fly'. Unless you can hear in real time, the comparisons.....It is hard to distinguish the very subtle differences.
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You have to try 100k then, 47k vs 60k is not the big difference, i've never tried lowed than 47k yet. |
You have to try 100k then, 47k vs 60k is not the big difference Why would I do that if I find 60K mostly too thin and edgy....? |
That's interesting and probably system dependent, but i found the 47k dull compared to more open and airy sound with 100k loading. Anything under 47k was even worse. Maybe i need more time to experiment with it. |
Dear @halcro / @chakster : """
100K Ohms loading is a subjective aberration .... """"
No, it's not. It's only knowledge level to understand what is happening down there. Btw, @lewm , the chart shows 1db divisions not 0.1db as you pointed out and that's is a huge difference.
The RIAA curve equalization made a very fast and abrupt high frequency to avoid that the high frequencies can goes over 50k. So, the curve shows that as the high frequency goes over 20khz starts to goes with 0ver minus 20db eq. dow to infinite. That's something to avoid that the cut lathe burn in.
That's why exist the Neumann pole that's an additional special characteristic that permits that the high frequencies stops to fall so fast to infinite, as a fact it really stop or makes a more gentle curve for the high frequencies.
This Neumann is something additional to the RIAA phono stage design and several phono stages designers and professional reviewers are against it and not because does not works but because is a pain in the ass implement in the phono stage design for hard phase/amplitude problems that introduce down there. So, only with the rigth design to avoid its inherent problems can works in fabolous way. We implemented in the " rigth " way in our Phonolinepreamp and we can choose to use it or not through a simple special internal switch.
So, that's why one of the reasons that LOMC cartridges sounds more open: because almost all are not really flat on frequency but has an over-shoot in the high frequencies that in some way compensate for the RIAA inverse eq. curve and that's what happens with the 100kohms in the MM/MI response.
Years ago Ortofon ( still have it. ) started with a very special gold-ears team/group audiophiles whom were testing Ortofon LOMC cartridge with flat frequency response and with the " normal " LOMC over-shoot at high frequencies and over " thousands of tests in different sessions those golder-ears found out that always the quality level performance of the cartridges with that high frequency over-shoot sounds really better and Ortofon through the years decided through that kind of tests that its cartridges had and has around 3.5db on that critical subject.
It does not matters what any one of us or other manufacturers or any reviewer can think about. All those are facts and that's why we like it MM at 100koms and not at 47kohms or 60kohms and one of the whys we prefer LOMC cartridges.
Regards and enjoy the music, R.
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This is another interesting article written by Joseph Grado himself about his Signature pickups like Grado XTZ (I love this spectacular MI cartridge):
"The frequency response of the Grado Signature XTZ pickup is set for maximum musicality and excitement and INTO a 47K Ohm LOAD is +.5 DB at 10KHZ and +1 DB at 20 KHZ, THIS RISING FREQUENCY RESPONSE is generated symmetrically. If there are any doubts on this matter they will be dispelled the moment you hear the sound. I personally prefer this frequency response since it enriches the audibility of harmonic structure and enhances the accutance of sound image without adding distortion. This very slight rise in frequency response tends to add the elusive air and space to the sound. The first thing that's going to hit you about grado Signature XTZ sound is the giant super dimensional soundstage in all directions and the awesomely quite background..." - JOSEPH GRADO |
Very interesting chakster, thanks for posting that.
Somewhere I read that Grados may sound best when loaded close to 20K but I've not tried that. I've not had a Grado in my system for a few years but have two lined up in the wings patiently waiting their turn. I'd be surprised if Joe designed his other models differently enough that this advice would not apply to them as well. |
Dear @chakster and friends: It’s important to look for flat frequency response from 20hz to around 20khz to mimic what the RIAA eq. in the phono stage did it with the recording.
The issue is that " flat to "" around 20khz "" " and beyond it. We don’t look for that flat frequency response in that frequency range, always will be better a deviation over 1db to compensate in some way the fast " free-fall " of the high frequencies down there.
JG said that his 1db+ deviation at 20khz ( and perhaps higher deviations beyond that frequency. ) sounds better and Ortofon just confirm /even the JG opinion. No one of them tell the why’s about but the fact is that quality level performance is enhanced with.
I took in count the why when sevral years ago started our Phonolinepreamp design where for the first time in my audiophile life understand it the overall RIAA eq. and how in reality it works. That’s why we decided that this Phonolinepreamp can handled the Neumann pole.
Through the years I read posts after posts everywhere from internet forums and from reviewers through ST/TAS magazines and no one ever talked/touched expressely the why is a desired/necessity a deviation ++in the high frequency range.
To understand it in better way we have to think that MUSIC does not " exist " with out harmonics that are generated from the fundamental notes. So, the harmonics ( first 3-4 ) for the 6khz-7khz ( that are fundamentals that everyone can detect. ) are in a frequency range that almost no one really can HEAR but those harmonics ( as all music harmonics ) are the ones that gives the " life " to the MUSIC: are those harmonics what we like/feel on a music hall when we are listening the Firebird or the Bethooven 9n. We have to remember that all human beens " hear " through all our body: ears, skin, skin hair, hair, bones and the like and that to " hear " at maximum we have to dress clothes with natural fabric like: all cotton, wool or silk NEVER SYNTETIC fabric that does not permits to " hear ".
Btw, @pryso , in this overall, critical and so important subject ( high frequency + desired deviations. ) you don’t have to guide because some people said that Grado sounds better loadedat 20kohms. That’s is only what they said mainly because poor systems resolution and because are unaware of what I’m telling here and about distortion levels.
Btw too, when I posted for the first time in VE analog forum I posted that Grado’s and other cartridges has to be loaded at 100kohms and all the VE regulars " shout " me in different ways that I was totally wrong. We had very hot discussions there till I said: good bye stay sticky as all of you are accustom to " That happens in other net forums. I remember that a gentleman that came here from VE and whom I have in very high respect ( David/Dlaloum. ) because his high knowledge levels that discussed with me my findings on that 100kohms loading where he in theory proved I was wrong when in reality I was not. The difference was only that he did not take in count the inverse RIAA eq. overall role.
Independent of the cartridge overall frequency response all phono stages needs to have a well designed Neumann pole and if we are not listening through it then we are not really listening what is in the recording.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
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Dear @chakster : I don't see the reason for your confusion. That article talks about the Neumann cutting lathe system and I'm talking on an after " market " phono stage 3.18u Neumann pole design and not op-amp kind of design. Forgeret, the Neumann cutting lathe system is one thing and what I'm talking about even that has some relationship is different and the more critical issue is to know the rigth way to implement/design in the phono stage with out any single detriment of the signal but only for the better.
It's not only to speak about " Neumann "" but to understand the whole RIAA and RIAA inverse eq. overall role.
I don't want to convince no one because facts are there and at least to regarded opinions: J.Grado and Ortofon that in theory knows more than you or me.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS, R.
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Why should any manufacturer produce MM carts for other load than 47 K which all MM phono-pres use? This make no sense to me. On the other side there are many people who like to experiment in the hope to ''improve'' the sound of their carts by changing the load. In order to justify their efforts they then invent ''improvements''.
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@chakster : If I remember these are some phonolinepreamps manufacturers that integrated the Neumann pole in its designs:
Dartzeel, Aquovox, EMT. There are more. I think that over the time we will see more designs with that important characteristic and I hope those designs been a good design because is really dificult to deal with that pole.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS, R.
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That's correct about Aqvox, from 2CI manual:
"uses RIAA equalization with Neumann time constant because almost all
records are cutted using this or similar extension. uses Neumann
extension, providing extended high frequency range and a correct phase and level in the
upper frequency range for better transparent and natural reproduction." A bargain at its price. Cheers, Spencer
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Dear @sbank : Thank's for your important contribution. I think is the first time you meet this thread. Good, I never imagine so many knowledge gentlemans like you read this thread when almost all are on LOMC cartridges.
Maybe an advantage in this thread is that many contributors " touched " and touch several non MM important/critical audio susbjects that could be interesting for any audiophile.
This is only the second time in this forum that I " touch " the Neumann subject that for me open something to really " think about ".
Audiophiles as almost all of us normally are busy on " simple " audio " things " trying more than other thing fun here and there but almost never we really are interested or analize in deep what is really important not only to understand it but to test or at least to intent to test to grow up in this hunting of MUSIC enjoyment.
Through the years I learned that that is crucial and more important that to " play " with the " cartridge of the month " or the " new kid on the block ". Yes this has some fun but does not helps in the mature audio learning serious day by day " task ".
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS, R.
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Dear @chakster : I don't think that the Aquvox can help you because is a SS design.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Any SONY PUA-7 (stand alone) tonearm owners here? Anybody knows the effective mass of this arm with stock sony headshell? This arm looks so attractive and the build quality must be superb. Also the stand alone version of PUA-7 must be superior to simplified version that comes with their cheaper turntables (and often sells like PUA-7). Not so many info available about this tonearm and how it works with our top MM cartridges. Also, I think SONY MM cartridges are missing in this thread. What was the best MM design from Sony? XL50? Anyone?
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Dear @chakster : I'm an owner of that tonearm and can read about in my virtual system and yes, the Sony cartridges are not missing here we posted about years ago. Where?, who knows.
regards and enjoy the music, R. |
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What’s your personal experience with PUA-7 with MM carts, Raul ? Do you like the original Litz wiring ? and original headshell?
I know Nikola has several Sony MC cartridges (like XL55, XL88D with Dimond cantilever), but i guess no one never mentioned Sony top of the line MM alternatives like XL50 or MM XL70. Do you have it, Raul ?
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Refurbished my Lustre GST-801 tonearm finally! I've been waiting for a long time to try this arm on my Luxman PD-444, the internal wire was broken, so we have replaced original silver wires with brand new Discovery copper wires. I have posted before that Pioneer PC-1000 mk2 MM is one of my personal favorites. But on rewired Lustere GST-801 it's a killer combination! Emotionally rich presentation, almost psychedelic effect. I'm shocked. Before @rauliruegas posts i knew nothing about this rare tonearm, now i realized why Lustre is highly regarded among audiophiles. Also thanks @griffithds and @nandric for support. |
Dear @chakster : Good. The GST-801 is one of the true great tonearm ever made. Its design was " ligth's years " ahead everything in cluding several today tonearms.
Very well damped, magnetic dynamic balanced design ( no ringing as almost all dynamic designs. ), full magnetic AS, very good VTA on the fly, silver wire, etc etc.
Maybe the more misunderstooded tonearm but is a real jewel that was designed thinking in the true cartridge needs.
Btw, please check my new ad on cartridges for sale.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS, R. |
@rauliruegas seems like SONY used their own geometry on PUA-7 tonearm, it's way off the Baerwald, Lofgren or Stevenson when it's dead on to their own protractor supplied with the arm by SONY. Anybody knows what is that and how to live with it? The sound is spectacular and the build quality of this tonearm is tip-top (the antiskating, arm-lift, arm-lock ... are unique design, never seen anything like that). Superb SONY engineering, so glad to have it next to Lustre GST-801 |