Hi Fleib, JVC proudly mentioned their 'pulse train' method to anylize 'tranducers' among which our beloved carts. 'Your phase problem' is also mentioned as objective. To my taste the X-1 is the best MM cart I have ever heard so far. This is not my 'field' but it may be the case that this result is the, uh, result of this method? |
I've generally been sceptical about the advantages of a dedicated mono cartridge over the 'mono' switch on a phono stage or preamp...👀❓ But when Thuchan informed me that "I wouldn't believe the difference".....I took the hint..😀 Although he wanted me to buy the Ortofon Cadenza Mono...I opted for the cheaper AT33Mono at less than $400....😜 With only 6 hours playing time so far on the cartridge......Thuchan was right👍🎶 I thought that I didn't own many mono recordings (unlike Thuchan who has hundreds of mono jazz issues)....yet I discovered a full box-set of early Ray Charles as well as Fats Waller and Fats Domino...😎 Then I found my mono Brubeck 'Take Five' (alongside its stereo brother) and mono Henry Mancini 'Music from Peter Gunn' (also alongside its stereo sibling)...😘 A disc of The Everly Bros Greatest Hits was re-discoverd as well as a double album set of remastered 45 singles compilation including Elvis, Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochran, Carl Perkins, The Big Bopper, Gene Vincent, Shirelles, Chiffons,Gene Pitney and many more....is highlight of my collection...😍 But the revelation was the remastered set of Elvis' singles on 'Elvis 30 #1 Hits' and 'Elvis 2nd to None'...😘🎶 It's hard to describe the transformation that occurs with the sound of the true mono cartridge playing these familiar grooves as the normal audiophile descriptive terms simply don't apply...😷 One thinks that terms like 'soundstage', 'depth', 'accuracy', 'positioning', 'transparency' etc would not apply to mono....but they do indeed..😘
The recent Beatles Mono set delivers the least 'bang' over the simple mono-switch...perhaps because they used stereo cutting heads...❓😥 But for any audiophile with even a modicum of good mono records (and multiple arms or detachable headshells)....a $400-$1000 investment in a true mono cartridge will enrich your listening pleasure....😘🎶 Take it from Thuchan....👏 |
Hi Nandric, I'm not familiar with JVC pulse train transducer analysis, but there's a lot I'm not familiar with. AFAIK a pulse train is irregularly shaped square waves and a pulse train is used for such varied things as radio frequency signal analysis, radar and optical guidance systems etc. I believe it's related to pulse code modulation which is the basis of analog to digital conversion.
The Ortofon article is based on analog data from a study they did sometime around 1980- 82. I think they were originally studying things like tip mass analysis. They mounted an accelerometer on the headshell. The article shows the relationship between amplitude and phase in phono carts and dispels some commonly held myths, namely the affects of electrical and mechanical parameters on phase linearity.
You were lucky to find an SAS stylus for that cart. Jico does not have a wide selection of SAS. The database has it listed as beryllium/shibata, 2.7mV, VTF 1.55 - 1.75g, 12cu (100Hz?), and response to 60K. Is this right? What else? Nice specs, similar to some 4-ch models with that output and low inductance? How did the stylus change the sound, more exact and slightly less sweet?
Regards,
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Hi Fleib, Raul mentioned this JVC X-1 some time ago but I was not able to find a single one for two years and give up. But in the last three months I got three samples. One of which in NOS condition. Your specs apply to this one: beryllium cantilever and Shibata stylus. The other two (bodies) needed a new stylus. One got Tonar replica with elliptical stylus the other got the Nivico DT-X1 ,Mk 2 with also elliptical stylus. My comrad Don got the first mentioned as present and ordered the new Jico DT-X1,Mk2 with Shibata stylus. Both my Nivico and his Jico are provided with tension wire. Don is very impressed even with the Tonar stylus. I hope he will post about his Jico stylus. But as far as I know this Jico is not an SAS. My NOS X-1 is the only MM cart which I can't distinguish from my best MC carts.
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It looks like Jico has a SAS for the Z1 - four or five listings, might be a cross reference. I don't know about these JVC styli. They are the same basic style and if the joint pipe and cantilever are the same, you might be able to trim some plastic on the stylus holder and get a fit.
Maybe someone at Audio Karma knows, or you could buy a cheap Z1 replacement to see if this might work. Regards, |
Hi Fleib,
I have a ad page from JVC which describes the X-1 and the Z-1, both on the same ad page. Therefore they are quite similar. The Z-1 is the later model and has a slightly higher output. I hope this is due to the magnets, and not additional winding's on the coils. I have one of each. The SAS for the Z-1 is on order from Jico. The stylus holders are not the same but as you have stated, perhaps a bit of trimming will cure that. But we are assuming that the Z-1 is the lesser of the two and that has not been established. JICO only supplies the SAS for the Z-1. Now why is that? Perhaps because it is the better of the two? Perhaps because it was a much larger seller so their would be a larger market for replacements? Unanswered question as far as I know! But I am going to find out! The X-1 with the JICO DT-X1 MKII stylus or even the surprising Tonar's replacement for this X-1 makes this cartridge the best M/M I have ever heard. Better than the Grace Fe, better than the Technics 205C MK IV, better than the AT 150 Anv., and as good as my London Decca Jubilee. I own many of Raul's cartridge of the week. None, and I "mean" none of them can compare to this X-1. I'm hoping that the Z-1 is as good. I say this because there are many of them that pop up on the auction sites. As my comrade Nikola (Nandric), has stated, you can spend years looking for an X-1. I would have liked to have waited and found a backup for the one that I have before I alerted anyone but Nikola has 'spilled the beans' sort of to speak! I will keep all informed when the SAS from JICO arrives for the Z-1 as to how it will perform and if it will be a contender. I do have high hopes! If you run across a JVC X-1, buy it if it has exceptable coils. Either the Elliptical Tonar or the Shibata Jico are availabe for stylus's. Both are absolutely stunning performers. Regards |
Hi Griff, Going by this limited info, they're not likely the same. BTW, do the owner manuals in VE library have more specs? The X1 has response to 60K. Maybe it was developed for 4-ch. The shibata stylus might be an indicator and it should have relatively low inductance for high frequency extension. The Z has 4mV out, as opposed to 2.7mV and extension is to around 30K at best. Two of the Z (Z-2?) are listed as 2.4K ohm impedance and 4mV - looks like a 150MLX. You could measure DC resistance with a digital (only) meter and see if they are close. I'd guess that the X is around 4-500 ohms and the Z is closer to 800. This is a wild guess based on very little information. Still, the SQ might be closer than you'd expect.
If you're not in the habit of measuring DC on carts, just hold the probes to the pins (not connected to anything else)of the cart just long enough to get a stable reading. Digital meter only.
Jico sold a complete MM cart w/SAS about 5 years ago. It was called the SAS MM1 and people raved about it. Anybody get one of these? At the time there was conjecture it was a Philips cart. The specs look like a JVC Z: http://stylus.export-japan.com/sascartridge.php You never know.
Regards,
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Hi Fleib,
I remember that SAS MM1. It sold out rather quickly. I have that very same stylus mounted in a Garrott Bros. P77 cartridge. No, not a transplant but a perfect fit! If what you speculate to as the JVC Z also being the SAS MM1 then I am going to be quite a happy camper. Perhaps I should try to fit the SAS stylus I have for that P77 into the JVC Z. Housings do look different though! BTW: The JVC ad copy states the Z1 goes out to 50K. The X1 goes out to 60K. Compliance between the two is a little different. 12X** for the X1 and 10X** for the Z1. This might account for the slightly less extension with the Z1. Just my guess at this point. Regards, |
Fleib,
Forgot to mention. DC resistance: X1 470 Z1 510 And both Shibata's
Regards, |
Agree with everyone on the Victor x-1. A sweet little cart. Thanks as always, for the heads up on the replacement styli. |
I have a little confession. I had been needing a longer phono cable for weeks, and have not decided on what to buy, but in the meantime I was listening to digital through a Yamamota Dac and a PS Audio Transport. I thought I had finally found a digital source that could replace my turntable. Today, I just decided to set the turntable up, on the floor, next to the preamp.
Analogue still kills digital at my house. |
A fitting end to the MM/MI thread? Nandric and Griffithds declare a winner with a "sweet little cart" rescued from obscurity. Who's to offer another opinion with only a few examples in the known world? Known to us, that is.
Raul has this cart, yet never declared it the best? Just got a mention? Maybe it isn't so great at 100K, but it looks like a 4-ch cart.
What do we make of this, a conspiracy of two who prefer MCs (at least Nandric), to have their way with the defenseless MM damsels? Is this sweet little cart a pawn in a power struggle for MC superiority?
Since Raul isn't here I want to tell you, it's plagued with distortions. These are insidious anomalies designed to mask reality and lull you into sweet stupor. This is a warning. Don't listen to the JVC Sirens. Cover your ears like brave Ulysses or you'll be lulled to your demise. You'll be doing crazy things and sabotaging your set-up. Nandric wisely bent the beryllium cantilever and broke out of his stupor, but the call of the Siren was too much to resist.
Regards, |
Hello Fleib.
One of the phono stages that I have in use is a heavily modded Jasmine. One of the mods converted it to 100K. I wondered if the reason it (the JVC X1) sounded so good was because of it being a 100K load! But Nandric was running his at 47K and feels the same about the JVC as I do so I do not feel the loading isn't an issue. Now perhaps mine does sound 'better' loaded at 100K than my Comrades loaded at 47K. (grin) I've not heard it at 47K to say for sure! I have the amp in the other system (the 47K phono stage system), out for repair. When it returns, I will check the JVC in it to confirm. Regards, |
There are a few things I should add. 1) My previous post should have read 'loading is', not loading isn't. (a typo) 2) Nandric's cantilever is a Beryllium with a Shibata tip. Mine also has the Shibata tip but it being a Jico provided item, I am not sure of the material used for the cantilever. But I am sure it is not the coveted Beryllium. What convinced me to buy this Jico replacement was the fact that it has the 'tension wire' like the original stylus design. This lack of a 'tension wire' is the reason why there are no decent aftermarket stylus replacements for the Stantons and Pickerings. Morita-san, the designer of the SAS for Jico has developed the SAS stylus with this 'tension wire' design and must have decided to incorporate it into some of Jico's other stylus's. The JVC that Nikolas (Nantric), has was found and purchased on the Japanese auction site. I had the pleasure of having it pass through my home while on its travels to his home in The Netherlands. It is 100% NOS. In the short listen I had with his, I can honestly say that I could not tell any difference between his, and the JVC with the Jico MK II stylus. I state this only in praise of the Jico JVC X1 MKII stylus and I must clarify that there was no direct A/B testing done. But the amazing dynamics and clarity that I heard on the original (Nandric's), is also present on the Jico version. J/Carr has commented earlier on this forum about the importance of this 'tension wire'. It is why Nikolas and I started our search for cartridges that incorporate this design concept. It appears the Morita-san of Jico, who also had a hand in the design of the highly sought after Sony XL line of cartridges (the XL 45, 55. and the 88's), also feels that this 'tension wire' design must have much merit. I know that David (Dialoum), has been looking for an original X1 stylus for a long time. If I were David, I would not waste another minute before I placed an order of this Jico replacement. Its # is the DT-X1MK2 Regards, |
Regards, Griffiths: It's said "There's no fuel like an old fuel" (did I get that right?), so here's some "old fuel" to throw on the fire.
From "OldADC", Prichard's successor (1978) as cartridge designer: "Those other (cantilever designs) required a tie wire to assemble the stylus assemblies. A small wire was soldered in the back of the stylus tube and pulled toward the rear of the cartridge to a specific load and then soldered off to hold the assembly together. The load plane and the tension defined that center point of rotation for the assembly. All well and good until you consider a couple of factors. 1) That assembly is now by definition imbalanced in motional impedance fore and aft of the pressure defined pivot point. Constrained, held hostage, on a freaking leash! 2) That tie wire has a resonance of its very own. Almost all of them, based on length and diameter of the wire ended up somewhere around 17kHz. Many designs went to great lenght to dampen and tame that resonance but....and here is the big deal....even if you tame the amplitude resonance so flat you can't see it in a swept sine wave plot....you haven't done a dang thing for the 180 phase shift that must occur when that wire passes through its resonance, damped or not. I swear I could always hear a tie wire in the desperate confusion of attack on top hat symbols.
The Omnipivot design was very carefully calculated so that the balance of masses fore and aft of the designed point of rotation meant that the point of rotation as defined by the assembly is the same point as the point of percussion (ie that point of rotation were the assembly to be in free space). Thus the assembly wanted to rotate about the same point that we were asking it to. And when you got them wrong in assembly, you could tell. The Astrion was hand built and tweaked for this very reason. Every stylus assembly was truly balanced point of rotation to point of percussion and had not tie wire therefore no phase shift through resonance."
Other interesting observations concerning assemblies without tie wires identified a "pistoning" of the canitlever. This specific circumstance illustrates the need to match TA/cart compliances, the consequences of which were sometimes so severe as to result in the plucking of the cantilever assembly from the grip. ADC's low compliance suspensions when mounted to a "bulldozer" tonearm sometimes had this outcome, this phenomena was observed with the (MK 1) XLM. Prichard denied it's occurance.
Vibrations in a beam are influenced when constrained, a concern in industries ranging from architectural engineering "Galloping Gertie, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge) to fiber optics. In analog audio, the addition of a tie wire (see OldADC's comments above) illustrates this phenomena.
Just some fun info.
Peace, |
Our present technical ( aka 'scientific') member Fleib is obssesed with cantilevers, inductance, capacitance and loading and convinced that from those parameters he can deduce 'objective information' how any MM cart should sound. As Kant put it: we prescribe with our laws the nature how to behave. But our 'sumprime outhority ' J.Carr simply stated: 'if I was able to produce a real good MM cart I would of course do that'. He obviously overlooked the possibility to consult Fleib regarding the question how this should be done. What Fleib also overlooked or never tought about is that our forum is about members opinions. Those are of course 'subjective' ( an expression which Fleib hates) but if ,say, three members state to like cart X than other may be interested to try the same cart and hear for them self. Nobody had problems with Raul's carts 'of the month' despite the fact that Raul is not a technical guy. His technical guy was/is his Sancho Pansa. But the most carts which Raul recommended were good carts. So ,probably, he has very good hearing capability. We are not able to conclude anything about Fleib's hearing capability because he is only interested in carts technical data. |
Griffithds,
Earlier this year I ordered thee same Jico stylus for my x1/2. It does not have the tension wire. Did you special order yours with one?
I had a brief encounter with the original stylus (until I broke it) and the Jico w/o tension wire doesn't sound nearly as good as the original. In addition to the difference in cantilever material, the diamond on the original was the smallest and best polished one I've seen. I have no idea whether that even partially accounts for the difference I hear, but it was impressive to look at. |
Hello Tom,
Good to hear you are still around! (grin) I am quite familiar with Mr. Prichard. I have owned and still have several of his cartridges. The Sonus Demension 5, The ADC ZLM and the Astrion among others. It's all in the execution. Some of the finest cartridges ever made are with this 'tension wire'. Some of the finest cartridges ever made are 'without' this 'tension wire'. My favorite non M/C cartridge, the London Decca Jubilee doesn't even have a cantilever! Like I said, it's all in the execution. But what would be the point to go through the expense and design issues in regards to building a cartridge using this 'tension wire' concept if your end result was only going to be mediocre. I did a survey of cartridges. Those from our past that hold a position on the pedestal that we (hobbyist), have created and I was rather surprised at how many of those are with 'tension wire'. I'm not saying all cartridges with this 'tension wire' are good. Crap is quite easy to construct. But it is not easy to build contenders around this 'tension wire' concept cheaply so what would be the point? In the Stanton and Pickering Handbook by Richard Steinfeld, there is a discussion in regards to the presents of this 'tension wire' in there designs that haven't been copied as of yet. To date, there has been no aftermarket stylus that will out perform an original. This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of many followers of the Stanton/Pickering brand. The reason given it the lack of this 'tension wire' in the aftermarket design. There is no 'one way' to make a contender. If there was, we would only have 'one' cartridge. And there is no perfect cartridge or design. The opinions of others are just that. Their opinion. That includes Mr. Prichards. I know what sounds good to me. My ears are all the opinions I need. If it's because I have learned to like certain 'distortions', (like Raul use to state), so be it. Regards, |
Hello Banquo363
If you still have your sample, look at the brass tube. If there is a tension wire, there will be a hole in approximately the center of its length that has been filled in as in the SAS or a tension adjustment screw as in the (or my) DT-X1MK2. I wish this site would allow pictures because I would like to post a picture of what I am talking about. Go to the Jico site and look at the Z1 and the Z1 SAS Page 2 of the JVC stylus listings. You will see this hole I am referring to. You can not see it on the picture of the X1 MK2 due to the angle the picture was taken, but mine has that hole. Now look at the Z1S picture on the same page 2. You will see no hole. The Z1S has no 'tension wire', but the Z1 and the Z1 SAS and the X1MK2 (that you can not see) has this hole therefore has the 'tension wire'. In regards to you liking your original better than your replacement, well, we hear what we hear. I don't doubt you for one moment. I can only comment on the samples that I have heard. Regards, |
Griff, David Dlaloum has an original X1 stylus. It's the body he lacks. It would be interesting to see some measurements.
Did you special order your stylus from this Morita guy? Seems there's a consistency problem.
All Jico non SAS styli are bonded tips on straight aluminum cantilevers and some are more expensive than some other SAS models. It seems the regular ones are used to subsidize the SAS which are bargains. The regular ones are overpriced. That's why LP Gear switched the shibata to vivid line. They're made by another company and retail for a little more than half the price.
Regards, |
Fleib,
I have often wondered about the pricing at Jico. I did think the $144 price of the DT X1MK2 was rather high. That was until I heard it. It is because of this 'hearing it', that I decided to order the Z1 SAS. I have the Z1S body which is no different that the Z1E or the Z1. JVC just slapped different styli on the generators and gave them a different ID. I am hoping to also get stunning results from this marriage. If David reads this or perhaps you can pass this on to him. I frequent the Japanese sites often and Nikolas frequents the European sites so between the 2 of us, I am sure we will find David a body. There is a comment made by Banquo 363 stating the appearance of the diamond on his original. I don't think what he described is what I remember seeing on Nandric's NOS stylus. I need to contact him before I comment further.
Regards, |
Fleib,
I have transplanted both the LP Gears (Jico) Shibata, and the LP Gears Vivid Line into either the Virtuoso or the Maestro. I prefer the Jico. Just my 2 cents! Regards, |
hi Griffithds, To be clear, I wasn't at all trying to confute your comparison between the Jico stylus and the original. In fact, I was sort of trying to explain our different experiences by pointing to the absence (or so I thought) of the tension wire in my Jico sample. But now you tell me that The Z1S has no 'tension wire', but the Z1 and the Z1 SAS and the X1MK2 (that you can not see) has this hole therefore has the 'tension wire'. So, unlike the original on which you can see the tension wire sticking out the back, you are saying that its existence in the Jico can be inferred by the existence of this hole. I can't be certain, but I do seem to recall seeing that hole (w/ a set screw in it) on my sample. I'd pull it out of my cartridge to check but it's stuck (I broke the original doing the same). But that leaves our different observations unexplained (not that it matters). Perhaps I can convince Nandric of the identity between his sample and mine so that he would be willing to swap :)... wait a moment, do you have the x1 cartridge body or the x1 mk2? Mine is the mk2. Therein lies the difference? I wish this site would allow pictures because I would like to post a picture of what I am talking about. You can upload pics onto your system page and then link to it on this thread, like this . |
Banquo 363,
I have the X1 body. Nandric has the X1MKII body which I believe should be the same as your picture. Do not worry about your statements . I have no problem with differing opinions as long as we remain civil.(grin) This cartridge has very little information available on the net so what we discuss here will be new knowledge to me. In this way, we all learn! I have contacted Nikolas (Nandric). He has been having trouble getting his posts posted in a timely manner. He has been on the moderators review list for much longer than necessary. If I say more, perhaps I might also get 'black balled' so I'll say no more. He has replied and his posts will be available tomorrow. BTW: I will have to figure out this 'upload' method that you are using. Learn something everyday! Thanks Regards, |
Banquo 363,
I just removed my stylus from the JVC to again verify this screw. It is as I described. I do not think I will be removing this again. It does not come out as easy as I would like. I could also damage one the next time around. Thanks for your previous warning. I was extra careful! Regards, |
Nandric, I realize English isn't your native language, but really?
You might not think that post was amusing, and maybe it wasn't, but how could you possibly think I was serious? Can't take a little friendly kidding? Ulysses and the Sirens indeed!
No one posted on this thread for a week and now we have 15 posts in one day. My post was meant to be both provocative and facetious. I have no doubt the JVC is a good cart, exactly how good I'm not sure. Specs and test reports help some of us figure out the physical attributes of the good ones and how that impacts on preference.
Have a nice night. |
Sorry Fleib, It is not 'the native languge' but the 'native nature'. As a Serbian warrior I am easelly provoced. Actually we, the Serbians don't even need a reason to start a war. One would call this 'pure passion'. My other 'weakness' is thst I like disputes. Probably not because of my 'nature' but my 'nurture'. As you yourself mentioned several times I am a lawyer. |
Banquo, It is no my intention to add to the confusion butI own (owned) 3 x JVC X-1. By my first I broke the cantilever copying Fleib by trying to bend the beryllium cantilever(grin).Then I bought one without stylus (aka the body). Then my comrad Don bought an NOS JVC X1,Mk2 by Jauce.com for me. For my first sample I bought Tonar stylus (elliptical)by 'pick-upnaalden.com'. Don got this one as present. For my second (the body) I got the Nivico DT-X1,Mk2 with elliptical stylus.The one Don bought by Jico has the same name but Shibata stylus. Both have the so called 'Industrial diamnod' . My new JVC X-1 , Mk 2 has beryllium cantilever and square shaft diamond. I assume but am not sure that the shape is Shibata. I intend to keep both. You need to be patient and wait for one without stylus. You are lucky to own the original stylus. Your best chance to find 'the body' is ebay.uk. or Jauce.com.
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Nandric, No further comment on your post 11/20/14 because I realize you were angry. As Kant said, cogito ergo sum. I'm not sure how that fits in, but at least he said it.
**By my first I broke the cantilever copying Fleib by trying to bend the beryllium cantilever** This is inaccurate. I was performing a transplant and the bend was unintentional. The patient survived but the transplant part unfortunately did not. This happened not once but twice. The other time excess pressure by the compliance screw on an un-shrouded tension wire caused the break. Both times I was performing delicate surgery and not trying to bend a beryllium (the most brittle) cantilever.
So you see Mr. Serbian warrior, I am the king of beryllium breakage unless we hear otherwise. I'd bet there was someone who worked in a cantilever factory and greatly exceeded my record. They might be dead by now because beryllium dust is highly toxic and they stopped using it in the early '80s.
Regards,
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Halcro, Inspired by your post on this subject I'm checking out a mono cartridge, a loan of a DL102. This is HOMC, a true mono with only 2 long output pins so you have to double up the wire connectors. VTF is 2 to 4g w/3mV out. Tip is a .7mil spherical.
I just got it set-up recently so no revelatory comments, but one old Blue Note (Kenny Durham) seemed to have a presentation that was much better than playing it with a stereo cart or even the stereo version of the same recording with a "superior" cart. I'm referring to the presentation only, stage, natural balance and such.
This seems like a worthwhile pursuit for anyone with a mono collection. Ortofon makes some high end monos with advanced tips which should be better for modern pressings.
Regards, |
Fleib, Interesting....😎 I look forward to your impressions on other monos....😋 Regards |
I finally got around to listening to my newest mm/mi. The Audio Note IQ3. The IQ3 is a very balanced cartridge. It has good detail without the rising high end. It is based on a Goldring cartridge, modified to Audio Notes spec. It has a Gyger 1 stylus , according to accompanied literature, or a Gyger2 per website. ( maybe it changed through the years). It has a a titanium cantilever .
Can anybody shed any light on the Gyger terminology ? |
All: Audio-Technica has announced a price increase for several of its VM cartridges; AT5V, AT100E, AT100E/G, and AT150MLX. Prices for the associated replacement styli will also increase. The higher prices are for Japan, but may eventually include other markets.
Here is a link to a translation (from Japanese).
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phileweb.com%2Fnews%2Faudio%2F201411%2F10%2F15185.html&edit-text=
Audio-Technica's price increase does not surprise me, as we (Lyra) have likewise received price increase notifications from our cantilever suppliers, which overlap with those used by Audio-Technica. We are told that the reasons for the price increases are the need to overhaul and replace worn-out and outdated facilities used to process cantilever materials and fabricate styli, and to hire and train new staff.
Although some of you may decry the price increase, I think this is not bad news, as it implies a willingness on the cantilever suppliers' part to continue to be involved in the cartridge market. No company will invest hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars in production line refurbishments and new hirings if they plan to subsequently let production dwindle and die.
It would be far more of a disaster if the cantilever suppliers had declared "our production equipment is worn-out and the production staff is getting old, the size of the cantilever market is pitiful compared to our revenue in other areas, and cantilever production brings no technological benefits to where we want to go as a company, so we will cease production."
At least we cartridge manufacturers can be reasonably confident that cantilever and styli supplies will not dry up.
If you wish to buy one of the aforementioned Audio-Technica VM cartridges, or a replacement stylus, and price is a strong issue for you, I suggest that you act sooner rather than later.
kind regards, jonathan carr |
In connection to the above, I should add that Audio-Technica has already implemented price increases earlier this year for other cartridge models, so the net result appears to be an across-the-board price increase.
Link to translation from Japanese.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phileweb.com%2Fnews%2Faudio%2F201411%2F10%2F15185.html&edit-text=
kind regards, jonathan carr |
Pasted the same link as before by mistake!
The correct link:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phileweb.com%2Fnews%2Faudio%2F201406%2F02%2F14541.html&edit-text=
Sorry! |
Acman3, Gyger styli are designed by Van den Hul. The first was Gyger I (= Van den `Hul1 ) with vertical radius of 85 micron and horizontal of 2 micron. This one was difficult to produce so Van den Hul was asked to design Gyger II with vertical radius of 40 micron and horizontal of 7 micron. I assume the same reason as the cause for the introduction of the 'S' model but I have no idea about its dimensions. There was an article about Gyger in the German Magazine 'LP' in which the 'design story' was told . The mentioned dimensions is Van den Hul's own story. By Van den Hul styli only Van den Hul I is mentioned as such. I have never seen Van den Hul II or 'S'. He never produced his own styli but probably made an agreement with Gyger to use his own name as 'brand name' for the mentioned Gyger styli. BTW Axel still has some of the Gyger II in his stock. The retip price is about 500 euro. |
Thank you Nandric. I also read an improvement was had, with a boron cantilever , but I am liking the IQ3 with it's titanium cantilever .
The IQ3 is very controlled at 47k. Those that believe a cartridge cannot be over dampened need to listen to this cartridge. I would like to hear it at 55-60 k, but really think it is good. Just plays music, nothing that draws attention to itself. |
Audio Technica has been raising prices for the past few years, but the carts are still a relative bargain. Some of the price increases are in the features you get for the price. The 33EV is a redesigned 33 series LOMC with a tapered aluminum cantilever and a .2 x .7 elliptical - more expensive than the older 33PTG w/boron ML. They just introduced the 33Sa. This sports a boron cantilever described as tapered, and a shibata. Price is $890 @ LP Gear.
AT has Japan only models for years and some seemed to be bargains for the Japanese consumer. The 100E was such a model. Its generator is almost identical to the 150MLX. It comes in a plastic body with a bonded .3 x .7 tip on a straight aluminum cantilever. Being a 100/120 series stylus fitment, you could use an ATN150MLX stylus or any from that series. The 100E is currently $80 @ Gear.
There's now an ART9. It's a higher output version of the ART7 (.5mV) and used the same low resonance body. The price is just shy of $1100. It's not on Amazon (yet?) where you can get an ART7 for around $900.
Regards, |
Perhaps I missed something along the way; but, DONDE ESTA EL MEJICANO?
I hope he is well; wherever he is. Seriously, does anyone have any information re his conspicuous absence? |
Hi Frogman, I was very impressed with a lecture by the Dutch scientist Casimir. The lecture was about a possible nuclear war. He quoted some Danish saying: 'the noble art of loosing face may save the human race'. My 'face' was involved by my second email to Raul asking kindly about his , well, situation. I never got any answer from him to both of my emails. But in his previous emails he mentioned his intention to start what he called a 'family business'. So I assume that he has not the time to mess with Agon members. |
Frogman, stranger things can happen south of the border. I heard El Diablo went deaf and thus can no longer post regarding his golden ear recommendations. |
Hi Frogman, From the last email exchange with the MEJICANO, he said he will be back but that he has a lot on his plate at the moment. Judging from his passion with our crazy hobby, he is the last person that will abandon audio. I just wish that people will be more tolerant of him when he comes back because goggle translate sometimes creates a havoc with his intentions. |
heard he is still developing his tonearm being presented on CES 2020... |
Thanks for the updates on Raul. I hope to see him back on this thread. To give credit where credit is due, I hope we can agree that this thread and Raul's opinions have been, at the very least, thought provoking and sometimes illuminating.
****I just wish that people will be more tolerant of him when he comes back because goggle translate sometimes creates a havoc with his intentions.**** - Audpulse
Completely agree and as someone for whom English is likewise a second language, I pointed this out a while back. |
dear Nandric, When you wrote "You are lucky to own the original stylus" it wasn't true (I had broken mine). But my luck appears to be in good order as I have since acquired a NOS one--for a song. Here it is for those who want to see the tension wire. As griffithds observed, the jico replacement has the screw that secures the tension wire, but the wire does not stick out as it does on the original. I examined the diamond with my loupe: it is as brilliant as I remembered it. I have a problem though: my jico stylus seems to be permanently stuck into the cartridge body. I broke my first original stylus taking it out. Since I am loath to repeat the same mistake, what to do? |
Hi Folks,
it has been a while since I looked in on this epic thread, and then it took me a week to catch up on the 18months or more that I had missed....
Most of the postings that might have triggered some words from me are now somewhat too vintage!
My own research on vintage MM's pointed me towards the JVC X1 about 4 or 5 years ago - reading various spec sheets, articles, finding out about JVC's work on quad , on phase linearity in cartridges and then the cartridges they issued post that work.
Those cartridges included several now legendary MC's as well as the X1 and the Z1.
At the time I started seeking both the X1 and the Z1 - getting the Z1 body was easy - finding the original beryllium/shibata stylus was not (and it continues to elude me). About 2 years ago or a bit more, I came across what appears to be an original NOS X1-mkII stylus - and snapped it up.
However I still did not have an X1 body!
Now due to Don's help, I hope to shortly have an X1 body, and I will see whether the theoretical potential matches the reality!
On the topic of the tie wire - I too have read Pritchards comments on the suspension tie wire as a negative. I have quite a few XLM series cartridges/styli and am a big fan of the Pritchard approach.... I also prefer the theoretical philosophy of the tie wireless design - but execution seems to consistently trump ideology/philosophy, and I have plenty of tie-wire based cartridges that perform at the same level as those Tie-wireless ADC's.
Nandric - you mention an eliptical stylus you purchased for the X1-II, was this with a beryllium cantilever or a standard aluminium?
The X1 and Z1 both use laminated core poles (like the V15III/IV/V and the AT TOTL efforts, and others) - but no information was ever available (that I could find) as to how many laminations and of what thickness. - To the best of my knowledge the only company that has ever published this type of information is Nagaoka - The MP series are all laminated, but as you go up the range the laminations increase in number and decrease in thickness.
I expect that the X1 used thinner laminations than the Z1 (and more of them) thereby reducing eddy current effects and their resulting high frequency rolloff... on the other hand the difference between them may be as simple as a more highly specified (or hand picked) stylus...
I have not looked at the X1 stylus under the scope in a couple of years - perhaps time to do that again, in preparation for the imminent arrival of its bride (body).
A special thanks to those of you who have kept this thread alive in the absence of Raul....
Although we may have already dug up most of the great MM's (never say never though!) - I think we are far from having explored all the potential great cartridges of the golden age.
Part of the theme of this thread has always been value for money, and the ability to achieve true top level "High Fidelity" performance at price levels that are at least an order of magnitude lower than the current TOTL market, and frequently several orders of magnitude lower!
The gems of yesteryear are still out there to be found, tasted/heard, tested, and raved about (or not...).
Another aspect of this thread has been discussion of optimisations and synergies for various cartridges.
Of particular note is Halcro's observation that the metal bodied AT's match best with wooden headshells and that the plastic bodied AT's match better with well damped metal ones (eg Magnesium). Also discussions of loading, setup, alignment, VTA/SRA etc...
In any case, I will look in more frequently, and look forward to the next 10,000 postings.
bye for now
David |
Banquo363, great news on the Victor x1 stylus!
I seem to have the X1, not the X1 II version. Nandric , which version do you and Don have? |
Dialoum, I am glad to see you will soon have the Victor body to go with your stylus. Patience is a virtue. Good for you! |
I don't normally post cartridge and styli info, but since the buyer has several, I will. There are several NOS ADC XLM MKlll stylus on Ebay if interested. |
Hi David,
First I want to say your hopes of having the body for your X1 is more than just hope. You will have one coming to your door soon. But first I need to use it for some comparison tests. This will only take a few days. Last night, I received a gift from Nandric. It is a Z1-S cartridge. I have known it was on its way for a couple of weeks so I had ordered a JICO SAS stylus (Boron cantilever/ Super MicroRidge stylus), to be used with it. I also have the X1 with a MK 2 stylus. Coming from Japan, is a X1 MK2 cartridge with its original MK 2 stylus. David, the JVC X1 elliptical stylus that Nandric had is now in my possession. It is not a beryllium but an alloy and does not have the tension wire. It also is better that expected in its musical presentation. Being a Tonar, I believe it to be made by Goldring. I have 2 turntables in my systems. One of my phono stages is a heavily modified Jasmine MK 2 which allows the use or comparison of 2 turntables with the flick of a switch. First I want to determine if I can tell any difference between the X1 and the X1 MK2. Then I want to compare the original JVC Beryllum/Shibata (nude square shank) cantilever/stylus to the Nivico (JVC), Alloy/Shibata (black industrial diamond) cantilever/stylus. It is best to not prejudge the 2 cantilever/stylus's that I just mentioned. I am rather shocked at how good this Nivico is as was Nadric when he bought the first one that got me interested in this model. Even this Tonar elliptical is better that it has a right to be. All this makes me think that perhaps it is actually the generators that are the main contributing factor in what we are hearing. Think about what I have just said. I have a alloy/elliptical, a alloy/Shibata (industrial Black diamond), and a Beryllium/Shibata (nude square shank diamond), and everyone of them sound far better than almost all of my other 50+ Moving Magnet cartridges. To say all this has caught me by surprise would be a major understatement. I had thought we were at the end of discovering lost gems but this JVC has smacked me up side of my head! More, much more to follow in a few days! The Z1 SAS is loosing up (breaking in) as I type this! The fun has begun! (grin) Regards, Don |