Dear Fleib: Very good information from your last post, thank's.
I, mainly, started my interest in the Genesis 1000 when I read one of your posts about, then I made some search on the net and decided to buy one and " see " what happen. With your post you confirmed all what I read it on the net.
In the other side, I was unaware that my Accuphase AC-2 designed by the same Genesis designer. I know very well the AC-2 and as you say " is very nice too ".
I'm thinking to " re-build " my AC-2 with berylium cantilever, I want to try something different on what I'm accustom with that cartridge, my take here is that this cartridge motror is worth to try in that " direction " we will see.
The cartridges are in the " road " to Axel and I don't know what could be his advice on the Genesis 1000, I have to wait.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Dlaloum: Axel handle exotic materials but in rod shape. I asked him about tube cantilevers because my XL-44L came with and I wanted to have the same kind of cantilever but he told me he can't do it: no suppliers.
Fleib, only to confirm that the cantilever on the AC-2 is boron.
regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Raul,
Yes, I've owned the Astatic for about 3 months now but I used it for only a month--because it was too good. Let me explain.
When I get a new cart I usually spend a week or so dialing it in, and because I've been well advised by this thread I've enjoyed every cart I've tried. So far the AT 20ss has been the standard by which I compare others. After dialing in the Astatic I couldn't believe my ears, it was too good to be true. I don't have the descriptive vocabulary to accurately convey what I heard, let alone try to explain it, but suffice it to say that I liked what I heard--a lot. So much so that I put back some other carts to reassure myself of the accuracy of my memory. When I verified this, I got protective of my new jewel and it never went back on the arm. I'm now like Nandric with his unused prized FR 64s arm. I'm only half joking.
Three characteristics stand out most of all for me: tracking, tone and timing (I'm not sure of the term here). I have a great recording of Janacek's second String Quartet that I often use to 'test' new carts. There is a lot of 'screeching and wailing' near the end that taxes a cart's ability to stay in the groove. The Astatic is the first cart to play through it without distortion all the while conveying in full detail the drama of the musical climax. The instruments retain their tone throughout these difficult passages. The 20ss can play without any obvious distortion as well but also without the fullness and presence of the Astatic. Another track I often use is Aretha's Bridge over Troubled Waters, Live at the Fillmore where she is virtually screaming in her inimitable way through certain phrases. Again, the 20ss can track it without obvious distortion but the Astatic does it while revealing (or not concealing) the character of her voice and showing nuances in the phrasing. I can listen to such passages without tensing up.
Regarding timing, it is difficult for me to describe this elusive property and I'm not even sure I have the right term. Jazz ensembles are playing together seemingly for the first time in my system. Each succession of notes emerges as one would expect and hope, with the right impact and at the right time. It's like what the Greeks said about Athena, that she sprang forth from her father's head fully armored and ready to go. I don't know if that makes any sense but the Astatic keeps time as if it was live music, my other carts seeming a touch slow, less cohesive and dull by comparison.
At any rate, to be sure the Astatic will go back on the arm once I get my new table (I'm following Halcro's lead). And there it will stay until I run it into the ground. I guess I'm not like Nandric after all.
I'm running it on my epa 100 mk2 arm at 1.74g VTF, just a hair tail up. It likes my lighter 9gr headshell better than my 12g one. It's relatively easy to set up, unlike the 20ss which, after a year, I'm still fiddling with. |
Banquo363, I think you have eloquently described the MF-200 as I have experienced it as well.
Your comments about musical nuance, lack of distortion, and rhythm are central to my perception of it, and in my little note about the cartridge on my 'system page' here I write that its unusual strength is with dynamically delicate chamber music. I often track mine similarly to you (1.75g vta, slight tails up) but also enjoy it at 1.85g and parallel to the platter). I enjoy it thoroughly in my Micro Seiki MA-505s arm, in a ten-gram AT headshell.
When you reinstall the cartridge I'd be very interested to hear if you have fiddled with different headshell leads.
Regards, Jim |
Hi Nandric, I hope Axel is able to cope with the Genesis body & cantilever. I think VdH, Gyger S might be a better choice if you want to replicate the sound of a Microridge? which is virtually identical to AT Microline. The shape is supposed to replicate the cutterhead and wear evenly for no record damage. Hard to separate fact from hype, although it's one that might last 1 - 2K hrs. I think diamond quality/polish comes into play, clear gem-like vs industrial dk grey. When I say micro I'm referring to those types in general. The Optimised Contour Contact Line is Soundsmith top diamond and costs $450 on existing cantilever. Perhaps Axel can advise better. Regards, |
Hi Raul, I never owned an Accuphase cart so I'm not positive, but pretty sure the cantilever was boron. The AC-3 that came after had hollow boron w/beryllium rod for strength, rigidity. The generator specs for the Accuphase and Monster are virtually identical. All the LOMC are 4 ohms. I think beryllium would be a good choice. It's slightly heavier than boron, perhaps more rigid. It's more brittle though. My impression of the AC-2 was a little more relaxed and musical, maybe slightly less accurate than than the Genesis 1000. Regards, |
Another excellent post from Banquo. How refreshing to hear qualitative descriptions which actually contain a modicum of sensibility? Compare these subjective/objective analyses to the cliched, meaningless jargon usually proffered by the erstwhile audio press? "...instruments I had never heard before..." "...as if Quasimodo was actually standing between my speakers...."
I, similarly tend to focus on the 'lack of distortion' in particular passages, as an indication of the quality/worth of a individual cartridges...and apart from 'timing'....there is a 'je ne sais quoi' about a really great cartridge which usually defies description.....at least for me?
Although having had a rather differing experience with the AT 20ss to Banquo.....his lucid and enthusiastic commentary on the Astatic.....is enticing me to return to EBay?
Well done. Henry |
Fleib, I'm fairly certain the Accuphase AC-2 had a sapphire cantilever. |
Yes, a tubular sapphire cantilever Here's a url: http://www.accuphase.com/cat/ac-2en.pdf |
I have never really got my MM's to sound as good as some on this thread seem to get. Whenever I brought up all things being equal I believed MM's sound better with SS and mc's with tubes. Mm's always sounded a bit soft on tubes and mc's definately superior on tubes. To me there is o doubt about that. Always vigorous debate on this viewpoint.
I have been listening to the Pass XP-25 for the past few weeks and my Technics epc100mk4 and Audio Technica AT 25 have never sounded better! Much better than any tube mm stage I have heard.
I still overall prefer my MC's with tube phono stage, however I have no desire to take these two mm's off the table. They sound superb.
Perhaps a few of you may take a listen to a really nice tube phono stage and your views of mc's may also change.
Cheers |
Hi Shane, I would like to think that the choice of electronics was not the defining characteristic in extracting the worth of either cartridge technology.......but I'm not sure that it may be of some influence?
Having said that however.......I have never been a great fan of the EPC-100Mk3.....and I know Raul will say that it doesn't compare to the Mk4..... But having now completed a comprehensive study of many of my finest cartridges.....both MMs and LOMCs.......the Mk3 shows deficiencies in many areas not the least being the most important.........it lacks a soul. There is precious little emotion emanating therefrom...and that to me.....condemns it? I have no experience with the AT 25 but my experiences with the AT-22s was even more desultory than the Mk3. It may be that you really haven't experienced the very best MMs that we regularly speak about here? The Empires, the Astatic, the Signets (TK-3,5,7) and even the Virtuoso? A phono stage which allows a loading of at least 60K Ohms and variable capacitance values is also important for MMs. Finally the arm is very important for high-compliance MMs as I found out to my chagrin? The famous Phantom II just about destroyed every MM I tried with it...so much so that I was forced to sell it. And if you ever do obtain one of the great MMs........remember that switching from it to a LOMC will always sound initially impressive. It's switching back the other way that the truth is revealed IMHO? |
I have noticed in the last two years or so.....that almost all the new high-end phono stages which have been introduced.....feature adjustable impedance and adjustable capacitance as well as MC and MM inputs? And even some of the new mid-range phono stages come so equipped?
I don't believe this is a co-incidence but decidedly inspired by the influence of this long running thread? And for this.....I congratulate Raul for his maverick courage and stubborn perseverance.....and all the contributors who have kept this thread alive and created a groundswell of change in the perception of the 'old' MM technology. It was not so long ago that phono stages were being sold with 'MC only' inputs? Viva Le Republic! |
Hi Henry
Yes, I believe the choice of electronics and speakers does provide the foundation over what sound you may be achieving. Do you think it does not?
Yes, the epc mk4 and at25 are neutral sounding cartridges. The epcmk4 measures ruler flat and sounds superb, so I may say you have never heard a great mm cart either :-). I always thought a tranducers job was to be neutral?
That you do not find neutral cartridges pleasing is interesting. I guess everyone is looking for their equipment to provide that emotionAl connection somewhere in the playback chain. You in musical cartridges?
You could save yourself sow time and try a nice tube phono stage and the balance may change, then again it may not but at least you would have tried. And you won't have to unplug and plug your different arm leads each time :-)
I agree, the phantom tone arm I could never get quiet with mm's let alone sound good. I use my P3 and Ortofon 12 inch arms for that. It is mc only. |
Henry, you are stretching a VERY long bow linking this thread to any release of high end phono stages. Most Phobos stages have always offered mm.
There are no phono stages outside of Accuphase that offer 100k loading that Raul likes.
The Vitus, ARC, Aesthetix, Ypsilon, Boulder and Allnic do not offer capacitance loading. The Pass XP-25, Burmester and Esoteric do.
Can't think of too many more recent high end phono's off the top of my head |
Hi Shane, I lived with the Kebschull valve preamp with full valve phono stage......6 valves in total.......for 20 years. I think I have a handle on valve beauty? Measuring ruler flat is not necessarily a recipe for greatness? I've heard cartridges, preamps, amps and speakers which....supposedly...measured that way and a toss-up between boredom and agony was the net result :^( |
On the contrary, some of us are quite sensitive to high frequency ringing and compression in solid state phono stages. It is quite plausible that tube phono stages are more benign in dealing with high frequency resonances generated by MC's. Certainly your fellow countrymen, the Garrot Brothers, were of the view that MC's go with tubes, MM's go with solid state. |
Henry
Todays valve gear has changed a bit from 25 years ago. Have you not heard Valin's musing of SS and tubes merging. Not quite but closer :-)
Did you have the same handle of appreciation of mm's when you had your tube pre amp as you do now?
I was only talking about transducers being flat. I would never say my tube amps were ruler flat :-)
Cheers |
The Kebschull preamp uses internal MC transformers for the MC input, and does not represent a high gain tube phono preamp. You may well have a skewed view of the tube world if this was your reference. |
Shane, You complain of not achieving the great performance traits with your MMs ....that others on this Forum appear to be accomplishing? Without attacking any of your associated equipment.....I try to explain perhaps a reason for this that is easily rectified? For some strange reason.....you appear to take this suggestion as a personal attack on you and your two mentioned MM cartridges.....and then proceed to defend them to the death? Yes.....you're right. Your two MM cartridges are the best ever produced and the reason you prefer LOMCs is because they are intrinsically better. Enjoy the music. |
Dear Fleib, Depending on the kind of repair the cart must be 'opened' or not. By the 'retip' the usual procedure is to insert the cantilever/stylus combo ( as provided by supplier) in the 'tube' on which the bobbin (with the coils) is fastened. The cantilever is then glued in the tube. The reverse 'act' presupposes that the old cantilever should somehow be pulled out. I have no idea how this is done but assume that some solvent must be used. What kind of stylus one can order is not only dependant on what Axel can provide but also, I think, on the thickness of the cantilever. On my AT 180 and the Virtuoso with the boron cantilever one can hardly see the stylus even with the 'help' of an hand-microscope (50x). The line contact diamond on my other Virtuoso on the other side can be seen with the 'nacked eye'. I think that the 'microridge' stylus is 'invented' for those 'thiny' cantilevers. Alas I also need to wait till Axel has some spare time ( I hoped for preferent treatmnet) so I have still no idea what kind of stylus or cantilever/stylus combo he will put in 'our' Genesis. Regards, |
Dear Banquo 363, To be honest I consider your comparison of your Astatic cart with MY FR-64 S (+ B60) insulting. I just bought a pedestal to put this 'work of art' in my living/listening room such than anyone with some esthetical sense can also enjoy the beauty. Now try , for the comparison sake, to put your cart on whatever pedestal in your living room and I can ensure you that your best friends (if you have any) will recommend to you some decent asylum in your neighbourhood while others will advice some of their own psychiatrist.
Regards, |
The Kebschull preamp uses internal MC transformers for the MC input, and does not represent a high gain tube phono preamp. Hmmm....I've got it here right in front of me. Can't see anything that looks like MC transformers? Can you post a schematic? MC input handled without noise Koetsu Urishi, VdH Grasshopper, Clearaudio Concerto, Clearaudio Insider Gold and Lyra Helikon. Enough gain if you ask me? You may well have a skewed view of the tube world if this was your reference. You may well be right. It is still the finest, purist most transparent and transcendental sound I have heard in my system....or any other. |
Henry, why would I think anything you or anybody else is getting personal. We are talking hifi not rugby league :-)
Since you still have your tube pre, why don't you use the tube phono stage in it to see if you can get better performance from your lomc's. Nothing to lose except time.
Cheers |
When I was in Germany a few years ago I looked at purchasing a Kebschull VV150 preamp. Was advised that it used internal MC transformers, located rear left inside. Relevance is not the gain, it is that as you know transformers are not universally applicable to all MC's. They require matching to the cartridge in terms of turns ratio and primary and secondary loading. To me a tube phono stage has no fets/transformers/opamps/transistors between the cartridge and the first tube. If you have a different all tube model then well and good. |
Certainly your fellow countrymen, the Garrot Brothers, were of the view that MC's go with tubes, MM's go with solid state. I visited John and Brian Garrott on several occasions and spoke with them on the phone many times and they conveyed no such philosophies to me. Their disdain for MC cartridges was palpable and they loved nothing more than playing the top Supex MC with Entec head amp through their stacked quads and then switching (with an interchangeable headshell no less) to their P77 MM and watching your expression. They played with full valve amplification at their house at Mona Vale and never played MCs other than to display the differences. |
Garrot Bros -= when I was working with them in the mid 80's they had a modified NAD 3020 running into Brian's home made electrostatics. They had a preference for MMs and yes they loved to put the P77 after a MC for shock value. However they also associated MC's with "soft flaccid" valve preamps. They were quite clear about this. You do realise that they later did produce their own moving coil. |
Dear banquo363: Yes, I agree with you as Dean_man and other Astatic MF-200: nothing short as a marvelous performer.
+++++ " The Astatic is the first cart to play through it without distortion all the while conveying in full detail the drama of the musical climax. The instruments retain their tone throughout these difficult passages. The 20ss can play without any obvious distortion as well but also without the fullness and presence of the Astatic. " +++++
I posted almost the same, the tracking MF-200 habilities is second to none not even the 20SS can eve it. If it is true that the 20SS makes a great job running the Telarc 1812 overture the MF-200 makes not a great job but a seamless one that no other cartridge I remember shares.
I posted several tiemes the critical importance on cartridge own tracking habilities as a characteriostic that always makes a difference for the better or worst. That the stylus stay always in the grooves makes the difference a paromouint differences. Tone, timing, focus, flow of the music are some distinctive factors that we can aware on cartridge differences on tracking habilities and this sole characteristic put the MF-200 in a different quality performance level than any other cartridge.
Due to its greatness IMHO is a must to have at least two samples of the MF-200.
Sooner or latter I will make an official Agon review, this cartridge deserve it.
Good to know you " discovery " the greatness of this Astatic.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Lespier: Maybe in some time the AC-2 came with sapphire cantilever but mine came with a non-sapphire one or at least not a " pure " sapphire ", I mean that could be a sapphire cantilever with a cover of " something " that preclude to see the " sapphire " build material: transparent/clear.
Thanks to bring your link here. I will ask Axel when he has in his hands, at the end Axel handle sapphire cantilevers.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Here is an interesting memory from the man who 'bank-rolled' the Garrot Bros. it contains some insights into the properties of styli and cantilevers:- elroyvomlacheren -- Sat, 12/18/2010 - 06:01 The missing link I stumbled over some posts about the late Garrott bros, and though I usually never blog nor use any forums, I thought it adequate to clear some of the thoughts, feelings and obscure history of the Garrott Bros. Some posts were right and brought warm and hurting memories and some were dead wrong. The ones who remember the Garrott family well remember them as living in an enclosed space, very isolated from the world around them. They concentrated on their work and left the world pass by. In the quietness and peacefullness of their living they mastered cartridge repairing, retipping and building never achieved by anyone in the past nor up today. I had first contact with the Garrott brothers at the age of fifeteen, which was over 30 years back from now. Half a child but most enthusiastic about HiFi I digged out their address to make first contact. At that time, there was no net - we had telex, letterpost ans later faxmachines. I still remember the day to have Johns voice on my phoneanswering machine. I was too scared to called back - I was still at school learning English as my fourth foreign language amd it took me two days to find the courage calling him. Finally made it and he was surprised that I wanted to meet them in Oz. It was very exceptional back the to fly to Oz amd back to Europe - Oz was a one way destination and at that age it really must have been exceptional. We immediately became friends. In fact, as they did not have children they kind of adopted me to their family, and as it was the way they lived, all in secrecy. Over the years the did teach me all of their secrets and they remain in my hands still. After my frist degree I entered university and studied design, architectury and engineering and I addem my knowledge to the projects we had. I was working in secrecy in OZ over the Euro winter I brought my findings to Oz. While we had the retipping service for all cartridges around the world (except for Linn, which John thought was a non honest company and refused to work on any Linn cartridge) there was the P66 and P77 cartridge. HiFi circles all seem to need a topic to dial in, they did on the diamond. In fact, the diamond is an essential part of the whole component, but only one. The same importance goes to the allingment, the mounting , the rake, the length of the cantilever, the material, the magnetic construction, the damping, the coil assembly, the field arrangemet, the inductance and much more. As usual, the hifi comunity reduced it to the A&E with Garrott stylus, which was fine for us and still makes me smile by today. It did't change much when I added the leaflet where the cartridges were named "dynamic coil". It should at least make people think that the dynamic change from the A&E to a P66/77 did NOT come from the diamond. I did have a good free lance job for Lamorghini Spa. then and it was partly about suspension and damping, which makes the difference for a car going fast or slow, but customers thinking about the horsepower. Same with cartridges. The secret really lay in the dynamic balance of the moving parts. As the P66 and P77 were for Brian and John Garrott, we made a set of 3 cartridges, the K1/K2/K3 to represent or 3 party, as I became a full Garrott family member and the K series came from my idea to make a lower cost series to give more people the chance to enjoy vinyl. By that time CD was in the wake and I thought it best to fight it in the beginning. The K series were fixture mounted diamonds, which were less expensive to make, but still had the exceptional polis all our diamonds had - exceptional. to say the least. The were round/eliptic/parabolic.shape. They were fully balanced, as were the P66(elliptic)P77(parabolic MScanner). They were differently balanced, as the tip mass was different from the K to the P series. I then initiated the making of a series of MC cartridges. 3 for us all - the blackP87 elliptical, the red P88 parabolic and the goldenP89 MScanner. We made the housings, printings anodisations here in Switzerland and used parts from our watchmaking industry. I did read that somewhere that they were affraid of the Cd and dwindling sales. This is dead wrong. The company was fully backed by my finances of 2Mio$US at Westpackbank. I wanted to give them their love back so I gave them the possibility to live the way they were used to and made their work excell. They never had any financial problems, and all they ever produced was bought by myself or backed by myself untill they got payed by their customers. We made batches of the P87/88/89 in the size of 400/400/200pcs. over the years. I was running a repairstation for ProHifi for Radio and TV servicing EMT's and Ortofons. While the MC-type P series were made for the then used mid mass arms which needed mid compliance cartridges, I had to service the tractors style types over here. I made retippings with Garrott round and elliptical styli for SPU's and the made a pro cartridge available in Switzerland only called the True Blue. 30pcs. batch, low compliance cross coil Garrott suspension style, aluminum cantilever with a Weintz parabolic. This was a wonderfull cartridge, but for heavy mass arms only. So we had two chains - I was on the pro heavy mass work and the Garrotts were on the HiFi medium mass. It was the time of the so called sharp needles - the then S-nadel was made by Gyger over here and marketed by VdH. He later renamed it VdH, but actually is a Gyger S. Friend of the Garrotts remember they did not dring alcohol. They still had fun getting a booze. After watching Roos around Cox's river road, we mounted a Gyger on a P89 and really got the booze - phasey and not natural. I should mention the importance of balanced weights. We have had around 100 types of diamonds, some with same shape but different weight, which is very important. We had multiple types of cantilever, aluminum, boron rods and tubes, with and without drill, Berillium strights, conicals, flat tops, flat tops with slits, ruby and so on. The magic always layed in the balance, not in the individual part. It is a very common missunderstanding that the stiffer the cantilever the better the sound because of lower transmission loss. Most cantilevers do not allow a mechanical rigid mounting of the diamond mechanically except for the glue. In this case aluminum is the best fixture possible with the lowest loss. Then the cantilever does NOT end at the coil armature. In fact, it ends within the backside polepiece, and the suspension wire is part of the cantilever, so the ultra rigid boron rod cantilever transferes the energy to the supple suspension wire which resonates much more than it would with an aluminum one. I will not discuss on cartridge building but would like to focus the reader on the real work we did at Garrott bros. If you would have sent the lets say a working Kiseki, you would have received a much better balanced Kiseki back without changing the stylus nor the cantilever. We did have the very best years all the way untill John got ill. It was a hard time as it was not sure if his sickness could be treated or not. As they were living as a party of 4 their very long live, isolated in the blue mountains, in the bushes behind Merimbula it was hard to immagine for Brian to go on without his brother. He took his time of from their house way behind Bega and headed for Merimbula again and think about the future. It was difficult to get in cintact with all of them. John was at his hous with Normita Gerrott and Brian away with Teresita and looking back they tried out how life would be parted in two. Tears run over my face when remembering those difficult times, which I thought would be more easy to remember after 20 years have passed now, but it is still too hurting. I got my last call from Brian after his turning back 3 weeks before they commited suicide, which they did in secrecy, as thethe distributor chain, which seems to be y could not immagine to ever part from each other. I excuse for not beeing able to think nor write about it. I was informed about the tragedy by the local police and then had to arrange according to their wills. I was not able to lay my hands on any cartridge for years as the memories were to hard. I only kept the proparts I was involved with anyway, and the rest was auctioned. The company was bought by Philippe Luder of Melbourne who was well known to John and Brian and they felt that their name would be in good hands and stayed in OZ. I incognito visited the company to see if they follow the will and ideal of the Garrott bros and I was very pleased that they really do their best to live up to the Garrott bros name. Though the current P88 is different to the late P88, it still uses the same body and some identical design features, and it is fair to make the best out of the currently availeable parts, which I very much believe they do. I warmly would recommend a try. I am not in any way anymore related to Garrott bros, but remember my family each and every miunte of my life. Thank you |
Dear Halcro: ++++++ " I would like to think that the choice of electronics was not the defining characteristic in extracting the worth of either cartridge technology... " +++++
I can't agree more with you. Downunder is stiucky to the idea of LOMC/tubes and MM/SS as its best couple. I discussed with him in the past about supporting what you posted.
I still support that the MM/MI tracking cartridge habilities makes a difference on quality performance for the better against its LOMC counterpart. Better tracking habilities means almost always lower a lot lower distortions that gives near neutral performance against more colored performance with higher distortions ina LOMC cartridge due to more problems on tracking cartridge habilities.
According to Downunder IMHO if one electronics kind of technology makes a better match to MM/MI or to LOMC then both electronics designs are wrong. A good electronics design must add the less and lose the less with absolutely accuracy to makes any cartridge kind to shows at its best and IMHO if one each kind of electronics can't do it then it is because failures somewhere in the electronics designs.
Seems to me there are no valid factros/parameters to say LOMC is matched better with tubes electronics but for the contary due to the very low output of MC cartridge the " natural " couple to a MC cartridge is the very low noise active high gain characteristic on the SS electronics, don't you think?
The other important part on what we think on the whole subject has to be with: how " euphonic " are biased our ears/brain?
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Dover: ++++ " ome of us are quite sensitive to high frequency ringing and compression in solid state phono stages. " +++++
again, this depends on the SS electronics design. IMHO any SS good design plain and simple does not shows that " ringing and comprression... " and if did then there are somewhere failures in its design but not because is a SS design.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Fleib/Lespier: My Accuphase AC-2 is on the " road " to Axel so I have not on hand for the moment. This is my second sample where the first one alredy sold.
I think that Lespier is right and the AC-2 comes with tubular sapphire cantilever. My confusion was because in the AC-2 the cantilever is not transparent/clear as the ones in the B&O or ADC cartridges that comes with sapphire cantilevers too.
Now, I never had on hand the Genesis 1000 ( I send directly to Axel from the seller. ) that you say was designed/builded at the same place/designer than the AC-2, maybe I'm wrong but: the Genesis 1000 comes with Ruby ( similar as sapphire material. )cantilever? or is only a misunderstanding from my part.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Halcro: +++++ " And if you ever do obtain one of the great MMs........remember that switching from it to a LOMC will always sound initially impressive. It's switching back the other way that the truth is revealed IMHO... " ++++
agree, but I think that Downunder really likes or likes more that what heposted the MM/MI alternative because he said here:
+++++ " however I have no desire to take these two mm's off the table. They sound superb. " ++++++
Btw, Downunder if you like the AT-25 then you have to find out the AT-24 that's its stand alone ( similar model. ) twin that gives you a better quality performance level. I'm with you on the greatness of the stand alone P100CMK4 really a must to have/experience. The problem with the Halcro MK3 is more on its headshell integrated design ( that degrade the cartridge signal. ) than on the MK3 version.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Banquo363: ++++" Due to its greatness IMHO is a must to have at least two samples of the MF-200. " ++++
my meaning there is to have the original MF-200 along a MF-300 ( same cartridge motor but lower price. ) where this one can be up-graded by Axel trying to achieve a next step level over the already great MF-200!!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Thanks Henry for the "missing link "post. There is a lot of information to digest in that post, both technical and emotional. Sometimes more is said in a few paragraphs than a whole book.
Breaking the Grace F8/F9 comparison to listen to the Garrott.
Thanks, Danny |
Dear Halcro: That " missing link " is really informative and in many ways confirm not only what J.Carr shared with us about aluminum cantilevers but what Fleib posted about Gyger stylus shape on an answer to Nandric.
Thank you to share with us this great " link ".
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Dover: I think that maybe you can help me: as you know I bought a Dynavector Karat Nova 17D/13D? but now that I see it I can say for sure that the cantilever in my sample has not not only the 1.3mm length but neither 1.7mmm but a larger cantilever so my cartridge sample is not on original shape about.
I will send it to Axel to a modification and my question to you is what can I ask to Axel: to fix with a 1.7mm or 1.3mm cantilever or leave to Axel the choice about?
Thank you in advance.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Downunder: +++++ " The Vitus, ARC, Aesthetix, Ypsilon, Boulder and Allnic do not offer capacitance loading. " +++++
with some of this phono stages my take is this:
some people buy expensive very expensive audio items as a status symbol more than with quality performance level on their minds. For these kind of people ( that I respect all of them. ) staus is their main priority and obviously status means expensive/top LOMC cartridges, for these people MM/MI cartridges is an " insult " only to mentioned and obviously the manufacturers take care on what the customers needs here.
If we take the Vitus phono stage that has a retail price of 60K only for the phono stage where you need other 60K for the line preamp: 120K!!!! we can confirm it through the M.Fremer review where he stated:
++++ " No alternate capacitive loadings are offered, but really—how many buyers will use an MM cartridge with a $60,000 phono preamp? " +++++
obviously that here exist a " stupid "/very low knowledge on the whole MM/MI subject and no one cares about.
This Vitus is IMHO a " shame " of 60K/120K product even for LOMC cartridges. How is possible that for that kind of money the inverse RIAA eq. deviation comes down from 200 hz at 0.15db and goes down to 20 hz at 0.75db !!!!!!!!!
and even that MF reviewed something like this: the greatness of the century over anything he heard ever. If a person can't detect that huge deviations then is only because is deaf or there is some " interest " down there with the audio item manufacturer.
Anyway, do you think that a Vitus owner cares on that specific RIAA subject?, certainly not what cares is that other people can see what he has/own.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
The typical Vitus owner does not know what a "db" is, and if he does see that number, he thinks 0.75 db is a very small error. He does know what $60,000 is and that spending it on a phono stage should guarantee perfection. For Fremer himself, there is no excuse. He clearly does know his stuff. I would posit that if one takes the old HP/TAS stance that listening tests and subjective opinions are all that count, then one can ignore inaccurate RIAA equalization. We all know that imperfections in one part of the reproduction chain can serendipitously compensate for imperfections elsewhere, so as to give a copacetic result. If one would give MF the benefit of the doubt, it may be that he quoted those RIAA specs so as to point out to the cognoscenti the technical shortcomings of the Vitus, even while he praised the sound (or maybe that was John Atkinson's measurement).
Have you read MF's comparison of the Caliburn to the Onedof turntable? $150,000 for a turntable with no tonearm that comes with a $5-rubber mat.... a rubber mat!!!! MF did a decent job showing that the rubber mat had to go, but there is no excuse for the maker to have supplied it in the first place. |
Hopefully someone on this thread bought the mf 300 stylus I saw on ebay last night ($45!) and is now gone. I didn't think about the possibility of sending to Axel as Raul suggests.
Dear Nandric: I have no friends except my cartridges and I fear some would die of envy if I put the Astatic on a pedestal; so, I refrain from conducting the experiment you outline.
Dear Jim: I'll probably be getting some Ikeda silver leads soon and I'll let you know the results. Right now I'm using copper litz. BTW, I used mine with the stylus guard off. Be careful! I nearly took the cantilever right off when trying to remove the guard. |
Dear Lewm: Yes, who cares about on a 60K audio item: he don't bought because of accuracy.
Was J.Atkinson whom made the measurements.
Again, yes there is noe xcuse for that $ 5.00 rubber-mat.
About the audio system owners that bought$$$$ mainly because status is one of the reasons why exist very expensive products that can't justify through quality performance level those very high prices.
When I started to bought " dozens " of LOMC cartridges my primary target is to have only the top ( high price ) cartridge models does not cares how good or not were. Then I learned but I invest a lot of money to learn.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Banquo363, the terror of removing that guard! Although I have a spare stylus I think I'll play it safe and continue with the guard in place ;)
FWIW I'm thoroughly enjoying silver leads (SME) with mine, preceded by some DIY silver ones, and initially copper Litz. |
Dear Banquo 363, I bought the MF 300 stylus as a spare for my MF 200. This seller may have some more: phonoed@aol.com
Regards, |
Hi Raul, My memory was faulty concerning the AC2. As I mentioned, I never owned one. Sapphire tube + line contact it is, thanks to Lespier. The Genesis 1000 is diamond coated boron tube + Microridge. Nakatsuka developed cartridges using what he thought, the best materials available at that time.
The AC2 was developed in late '70s when shibata and line contact were best available, I believe. The AC3 was early '80s and had micro type. The Monsters were mid/late '80s and both the 1000 and 2000 have boron tube/Microridge. This seemed to carry on to ZYX, also Nakatsuka. I believe one ZYX had boron tube, but now discontinued? I think now they either have solid boron or diamond cantilever with Microridge. Regards,
Tracing this history of his LOMC, it seems all the generators are similar, as I mentioned. Sapphire or boron tube are unavailable, perhaps Axel will know what's best. |
Dear Henry, An interesting story about Garrot brothers indeed. When we discussed cantilevers and styli I mentioned this 'stubborn' Swiss Reto Luigi Andreoli and his 'deviant' opinion reg. styli and cantilevers. He become known with his Magic diamond LOMC. What I deed not mention because there was no connection nor any reason is that he spend 2 years by Garrot's to learn the trade. So, it seems, that ''Luigi's opinions'' are actually learned by Garrots while his carts are made in 'Garrots tradition'. Ie to understand Andreoli one need to know his 'Garrots past'. When you posted your 'euphoric' report about Axel's retip of your FR-7 and the Virtuoso I informed Axel with the remark 'Halcro wrote an ode about your craftsmanship' . I just recommended to him to read 'the ode' about Garrots with the remark that he will find some interesting info in the ode about his own trade. Regards, |
Dear Nikola, This is too much of a coincidence? Could your Andreoli be the actual author of that article? Glad you enjoyed it. Regard |
Halcro/Nandric - back in the 80's I was sending about 10-15 cartridges per month to Garrots for retipping, both old and new - usually for a microscanner tip, mostly Koetsu's. I suspect that like any cartridge designer they could probably tell what a cartridge would sound like from the construction, not just cantilever, tip, but also coil configuration etc. Koetsu's were usually fettled internally as well, although they did not talk about it too much. I know one fix was to glue down the "guts" internally as the stone bodied Koetsu's internals were held in with paper shims. They considered Koetsu's poorly built and would remedy the issues as they saw them. In terms of other cartridges they would usually come back to me with recommendations on tips and cantilevers. They refused to put microscanner tips on some cartridges. One example I had was the Denon 103 - recommended weinz parabolic tip with a hybrid cantilever of boron & aluminium. I do think that they were artisans that used their knowledge of cartridge construction to produce rebuilt cartridges to their preference, and they were fantastic - both MM and MC. |
Dear Halcro, Even more 'coincidental' is the fact that this Andreoli is a kind of 'intellectual omnivore'. As if there is no scientific field unfamiliar to him. But his comprehensive article is writen in German and very technical so I was not able to understand many details. I posted his article to Dertonarm and Thuchan in hope that they would write some comment but both seem to have left our forum. Thuchan wrote to me that his reason is the 'new site'(aka 'owners') while my dear Daniel is not responding to my emails. Incomprehensible considering the fact that the person in casu (some Serbian) is such a nice guy. BTW the info about Andreoli and Garrots was from some of his friends . I have no idea if the (moving) story that you posted is writen by Andreoli.
Regards, |
Dear Henry, I hate to admit that somebody else is right. By rereading the Garrot story I was able to recognize many details which I rembember from Andreoli's article. Then his mentioning of Switzerland , the aluminum cantilevers with pressure fitted diamonds (aka 'no glue'),etc.,etc,. My confusion or , better, uncertainity, was caused by those two years that he was assumed to have spend with Garrots. There is this 'devil' and 'details' again. If one assume that proposition A is true then ,logicaly, some other proposition B can't be true, etc. Now I am nearly 100% sure that the story is writen by Andreoli. I already admired his mind but now I also admire his human character.
Regards, |
I have a MC head amp built by Rito Andreoli under his electronics brand Blue Audio Systems Design, called The Star, it's the best SS step up I've heard, way more transparent than the Klyne 7 I had. |