Dear Lewm: Yes and my " worry " is why almost all people speak about the " same ".
My take with Miles ( other that his name: Miles. ) for example is that he was surrounded ( on playback. ) for other great names: Coltrane, rollins, Adderley, etc when H. Edison for example was almost a " side man ".
I like Bill Evans a lot but what amde him so famous when W.kelly is at least at the same level and no one almost remember him.
What makes D.Guillespy ( other that his slope trumpet. ) so famous?, nothing wrong with that or with other of the big names I like it all ones but at the same time I like you like other not to famous players that in some ways or some kind of " tempos " are even better than the " greats ".
Which your take here? because this happens not only with jazz but on classic music too, an example of this is Mahler that IMHO at symphonic composition level is even greater that Beethoven but almost no one " knows ". Maybe I'm saying a stupid " thing " with Mahler but inside my no-formal music formation is what I think. Yes I like Beethoven and tchaikosky too but Mahler is something very especial for me.
regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Raul, Lay persons such as ourselves should be really careful in ranking famous musicians based on our perceptions of their musical abilities. I take my cue from professional musicians. One of my local idols is a jazz pianist who is also a professor of music at the University of Maryland. He can tell you why Bill Evans was a truly great innovator, held in high esteem by OTHER jazz pianists, even in his day. Marian McPartland also was a big fan of Evans. Similarly with Dizzy; his fame is not just due to his funny-looking trumpet or his sense of humor. He was an innovator; he made new music, or to put it another way, he made music new, a founding father of bebop. By the same token, Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Brubeck, Mulligan... these guys were up in the clouds over everyone else back in their day. Real musicians who understand the structure of music know why; it is not for us to doubt that. But of course everyone and anyone is free to dislike the output of this or that genius based on personal taste. Fifty years after most of these musicians had reached their peaks, we still have nothing better or even as good. For me, that's proof enough. |
Dear Lewm: Certainly I don't dislike them and I understand what you mean for what Frogman posted about Coltrane and now you about Evans and Dizzy.
Yes, W.Kelly or H.Edison or Baker maybe don't contribute in that way for been take in count at that level but even that true their skills and soul are IMHO up with the great ones so as a players it self they IMHO has the same merits than the ones that " count ".
Thank you for your explanation that puts " things " in a better overall " stage ". My ignorance level here is realy deep I have to say , however I prefer listen to H.Edison and even Baker that Dizzy or even Miles. Of course this is absolutely subjective and of course that depends of the recording selections where things can goes the other way around.
The arts like music is fully subjective not like audio. Is in arts where I fully agree there are no absolutes.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Amen, brother! Ultimately, that is why we are here. |
Dear Raul, it's great to have more discussion about music and musicians; it helps to put discussion about audio gear in a better perspective, and gives it more meaning. Much to say about the previous posts when I have a little more time. For now, just want to share some music by the great Wynton Kelly (I too, am a fan) with two of the giants of the tenor saxophone, Coltrane and Getz. Interesting to hear two vastly different, but equally great players. Enjoy. http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=8egSzCBCie0 |
Raul/Lewm/Frogman,
All too true but I think we sometimes use reference points that are commonly known rather than talking about artist that we cherish but others might not: on the Jazz front that could range from composers and orchestras such as Gustav Brohm to singers such as Carol Kidd.
On classical, Mahler is again difficult for many who look for no greater harmonic complexity than Mozart and so that might be why he is often ignored (although I have referenced his 8th a good few times on this thread). Milhaud uses jazz inspirations and is also largely uncelebrated in normal discussions but I adore some of his work. And my musical education is also limited to my ongoing cello abuse.
There is a thread on Audiogon in which many simply discuss their favourite Jazz works and seek to encourage greater experimentation and purchasing. However, a lot of the recommendations are on the cd format. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?gmusi&976325372&openusid&Dgob&4&5&st0.
It seems to be a similar learning curve to that on cartridges and seems (as raul and others have noted) the most important for any thread on Audiogon.
As always |
Dear Don, The most simple division of people is in optimist and pessimist. You know : those who see in the Swiss cheese only cheese versus those who see only holes. Or those who describe a bottle of whisky as halfull versus half-empty. If the Italian 'pizza' seller has put two 420 in the two 412 boxes I also would believe in a mistake.
Regards, |
Hi Raul, **Of course this is absolutely subjective and of course that depends of the recording selections where things can goes the other way around.**
Many of us music lovers really don't understand the contributions of an individual musician. Our likes and dislikes might be based on a limited sampling of their work. Dizzy's contribution to the invention of be bop is well known. He also helped Miles learn to play and keep up with Parker. Miles was just a kid when he went to NY. It was Dizzy who got him the gig with Bird. Miles went on to introduce modal style of playing and had the most prominent jazz band for decades. Up and coming musicians got a name for themselves by playing in Miles band or Art Blakey's. Look at the list of trumpet players who were with Blakey. It includes everyone from Clifford Brown to Wynton Marsalis. For a more modern selection from Dizzy, I suggest "New Faces".
Anyone looking for an Astrion? www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-UNBELIEVABLY-BEAUTIFUL-ADC-ASTRION-CARTRIDGE-AND-STYLUS-LOW-USE-/320807347189?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab19ba3f5 Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
IIRC, it was the seller that contacted a buyer on the site that discovered a 412 in a 420 box. One in which he (the seller) was preparing to ship. I doubt this mixup occured at Acutex. I think the seller bought up all back stock from someone and asumed none of it had been tampered with. Just my optimistic opinion. |
Whatever kind of music and artist one prefer we all, I assume, want to hear them in the best possible way (personal financial limitations presupposed). This is the hardware part of our hobby. The strange thing is, at list in my experinece, that professional musicians don't care much about (our) hardware. Ie as if they listen in a different way or care about some other 'qualities' in the music.
Regards, |
Nandric,
Optimisticly looking at your 420 delimma, I would say you are lucky. Why? Well you will never have to go thru the fulstrations of trying to find the proper set up location for it. Out of all the cartridges I own (23), this is by far the most difficult to repeatedly set up correctly. Once you have found it, you will never want to remove it from the tonearm. But of course, you will and thats when the problem begins. The next time you want to listen to the 420, it will not sound quite right, and the whole tweeking process begins all over again. Just the loosening up of the screws and retighting them will cause a change in its sound. Very flustrating to say the least. But when you get it right, you will think you just crossed over into heaven. I have spent more time listening to this cartridge set up wrong, than I have with it set up right. I bought an extra arm wand for my Graham tonearm so that I can leave the 420 (once properly adjusted), permanetly set up. All I have to do now is set STA which I can easily do repeatedly to with a tonearm bubble lever. BTW. I have just finished comparing the 420 to my Garrott Brothers P-77. I am sure glad I bought 2 of the 420's! |
Dear Don, there are even economic theories about 'rewards'. However the notion 'waiting' (for the reward) is also involved. So I bought 'some' shares 'some' time ago and was waiting for those (promissed)rewards... In some sense my Acutex 420 ( plural) needed to wait till I was ready to live my Virtuoso and start with the Acutex. As with my shares the discovery of my illusions was to late. There are no more Acutex 420. Besides the Italian 'pizza' seller has some memory problems. According to him I bought only two Acutex 420 as well that they are very careful reg. checking and packing of their items. The fact however is that I have 5 Acutex 412 while I ordered 'just' three of those. I am still in correspondence with the 'pizza' seller. I am envious about your optimistic inclination but we are actually two sides of the same coin. You will discovere the other side ever but I hope you will not.
Regards,
|
Dear Nikola, As per your swiss cheese metaphor, think of it this way: You now own enough Acutex 412s to become a dealer. You have cornered the market on Acutex 412. If price goes up, you are a winner. |
Dear Frogman: Thank you, I'm sure that every one here will appreciated your next post:
++++ " Much to say about the previous posts when I have a little more time. " ++++
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Fleib: Thank's too for your information, I need to learn and read and research on the whole topic.
I know why The beatles are so famous and not The Animals or Kinks but other that appreciated their " instrument voices " through their recordings and read the LP cover information I almost know nothing on jazz/blues history.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Dgob: I will take my time reading that link: thank you for that.
As seems to that all people agree if MUSIC is all about IMHO, in each musical's genre, is way important to know its " roots ".
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Lew, My swiss cheese metaphor will, I hope, not apply to my 5x 412. My proposition to the Italian 'pizza' seller is to exchange two wrong 420 for either the 415 or M 312. Alas there is not much info in this thread about 415. Nice to have the whole 'çamish' but if the M 312 is better I would not care for missing the 415 in the row. Anyway both are still available but I need to make a choice. Any suggestions?
Regards, |
Hi Nandric, I haven't been paying close attention to the Acutex posts, but if the styli on your 412 and 420 are interchangeable, they probably share the same generator. If you can swap styli and if the output seems the same with either stylus, I think it's a pretty safe bet that they have the same body. They have identical DC resistance.
I don't know all the ins and outs of these with long bodies and short etc. Perhaps a 312 and 320 also share the same generator? Regards, |
Regards, all, and seasons greetings: Nandric, fortunately (beware, a lot of opinion follows) the 412 has more in common with the 320 than does the 415, which in spite of extensive effort I cannot bring myself to enjoy. The somewhat overlooked 312 (catching up on previous posts, I notice Stltrains has made some understandably positive comments) is a STR stylus bonded to titanium and the cantilever is of nicely tapered titanium. Be glad the mislabeled carts weren't 415's. I found a NOS example several months ago and if it is typical of the 415 then I'm in perfect agreement with Raul's impression, a lack of dynamic swing, glassy hfs and brassy mids. Perhaps a good choice to brighten up a mid-fi or darker sounding rig? The quality of performance of my 415 reminds me of public announcement gear, a pretty good one but still P.A. The 312 is, out of the box, a near parallel to the 320, good tonality and a presentation with a sense of immediacy not often found. Again I'm concurring with Raul, the LPM 3xx carts are, to my ears, a better listening experience than the later 4xx series. You might consider either keeping the 412 carts or exchanging them for the still available LPM 312 rather than obtaining the 415 alternative. IMHO, the 310e (elliptical) is unremarkable.
Griffithds: Spent some significant time with the Signet TK7SU/hand selected Akai RS180 cantilever assembly transplanted into the OEM Signet grip, a "synergistic" combination that beats up the Acutex 415 pretty handily. A 9.5gm Ortofon Japanese oakwood headshell cleans up the somewhat rounded and resonant bass of the Signet, hf's retain the silk-smooth Shibata character. Not up to the performance of the crisper TK7lca but I'm always pleased to listen to the 7SU. My old computer expired and all previous research was lost but IIRC, the RS150 stylus is a bonded stylus. I've no experience of it but it may, however, be another "sleeper", possibly comparable to the ATN15XE, a stylus which is now nearly, in NOS condition, extinct.
Acman3: The OEM TK7lca stylus is superb. A subtle step up in clarity and resolution from the ATN155lc, but definitely an upgrade. Have been looking for a spare stylus, if you find a shoebox full of them let Henry and me know!
Those with a low eff. mass TA and the inclination to experiment might sample the AT7V with an AT140lc stylus hitched to it, higher compliance (nom. 1.1 gm. VTF) than the 7V elliptical stylus and as typical (IMHO) of a LC stylus on a comparable cantilever, not as bright as the elliptical.
Peace, |
Dear Fleib, Thanks for your support. My technical shortcomings are compensated with my economic insights and those suggest to me that to pay 69 Euro, which was the price for the 420, for the value of 49 Euro of the 412, is well technicaly possible, but not wise. I see somtimes the item I payd 20 Euro for in some other shop for 18 Euro and even this small amount causes me sleeping problems. Not because of the price difference but because I hate to feel stupid. Alas such kind of experience is not unique in my life. As some kind of variation to the 'second best' principle I intend to choose for the 'second worst' and ask for two 415 as my way out. To exchange two 420 for the two 415 is of course not very smart but I see no other option.
Regards,
|
Nikola, My Acutex experience is limited to LPM320STRIII, which I like quite a bit, as you know. I have not tried any of the others. Indeed, I think I have only one 3XX series LPM body that is not broken (the one that is in use), so I would have to swap styli. The others have me wondering whether I should just send off my Italian NOS LPM420 for a re-tip, before even listening to it.
My system is really cooking these days, now that I finally finished my amplifier project and have modified the Sound Lab electronics to render the speaker much much easier to drive with an OTL tube amp. All cliche's apply. |
Hi Timeltel,
Glad to hear your computor is back up an running. Your comment about losing past saved information makes me think you had to do a factory reboot? Been there, done that. I feel your pain! Welcome back! I must not have explained my inquiry well enough. Your reply addresses the TK7SU. What I want to do is improve my TK5Ea. I currently have the 440MLa stylus on it. Nothing wrong with that, but watching how the prices of the various stylus assy. options (ATN160ML, 150MLX, 152MLP, 155LC/152LP), are rapidly increasing, it appears supplys are running out. My bottom line question is, will installing one of the beryllium/boron type of stylus assy. on the TK5Ea be nothing more than duplicating something I can already accomplish with the TK7SU. Stylus available in my stash for the TK7 are the AT15sa, 20SLA, 20ss, RS180. My basic understanding is that the TK5 and the TK7 generators were quite similar, so would I be just building 2 cartridges that sound the same? |
Dear Professor, Just in time to prevent my economic insight to make the (wrong) decission. The Italian seem (also) not to work on Saturday so I can exchange my two 420 for three M 312 on Monday. This however means that I will own 5x M 312 and as such still be furnerable to Lew's Balkan jokes about me. He has not high regards for this kind of humor but has obviously no problem at all to use it.
Dear Lew, I am really glad to hear that you at last got your speakers and amps in optimal state. But as you know I am in particular interested to hear about your SP 10 mk III with the Reed tonearm. BTW there is a new Reed magnetic (prototype)tonearm which I will get tomorrow from Vidmantas. He wants to hear from me what my impression is. Ie the production of the Reed magnetic will also depend on my judgment. Raul will be very suprised but I feel somehow compensated for those 'wrong Acutex' carts.
Regards, |
"but if the M 312 is better"
cant comment on the other acutexes as of yet and i know i'm beating a dead horse but this little giant m312 lllstr of a cartridge is simply amazing and a most definite best buy. it still does not have the 3d magical sound that 4000d3 has and most likely wont but it does have better pace and speed. a different musical experience but a most listenable presentation from 312. waiting for Axel to reply on sending my 2nd 312 for his magic. mike |
Hi Nandric,
Very optimistic outcome! Very happy to hear it!
Regards, Don |
Dear Stltrains, Speaking about 'a dead horse'. I am very skeptical about the retip of a new cart in general. I inspected all of my Acutex carts styli with my 'hand microscop' (50 x ). They all look so simple that I am not able to imagine any mod on them except a new stylus. But one will not get a new stylus fitted to the 'old' cantilever but an aluminum cantilever with (pre) fitted stylus. That is how those styli/cantilevers are made and ordered by the retip-services. The 'old' stylus/cantilever is removed from the holding tube and the new one is put instead. It is much more work and much more difficult to put a new stylus in the old cantilever which also imply the removal of the old stylus from the cantilever. That even such an critical mind as Lew consider an retip is an enigma for me. The cantilever of those Acutex carts is made from titanium/boron 'alloy' and I am puzzled why aluminum cantilever should be better? Fleib and Laloum shoud provide for better answers than I am able to do.
Regards, |
Regards, Griffithds, Nandric:
Griff: Thanks for your comiseration re. the computer, best described as a catastrophic failure. In the process now of transitioning from Microsoft to Apple processes on a new unit, all previous saved data is lost. Speaking of apples, the TK5ea is 5.5mv output, the TK7SU is 2.7. In broad terms, the 5ea with any of the styli you mention will offer more detail and faster leading edge transients than the 7SU, which will have a more "organic" presentation. Both Signets "fell from the same tree" but sonically the comparison is apples/oranges. For the TK5ea, the beyrillium cantilever on the ATN155lc for faster rise time without emphasizing the AT "house sound", or a tendency towards, in some systems, an impression of shrillness. The TK5ea will approach the quality of the TK7lca, but the hand wound coils and PCOCC windings of the individually bench assembled and tested TK7lca generator are evident in immediate comparison, the components of the TK7/9/10 and their brother AT15/20/22-25 carts were not simply pulled out of a parts bin.
Nikola: Just now took a look at the lenco heaven "Acu-tex-bar" thread Dyna-5x linked to earlier, a poster to that thread has some cogent comments about the 415. So many impressions of cartridge performance relate to system differences it would be imprudent to say the 415 is a poor performer but personally, I'd not exchange any of the 312's (or a 412) for the 415. If you visit the thread there are some very good photos of the stylus assemblies. The 412/415 have a straight pipe cantilever, the 420 a longer tapered cantilever, all of undetermined material, best guess would be a Ti/Al alloy. The LPM 3xxSTR cantilevers are the longer tapered titanium cantilevers. Longer cantilevers are often described as being slower in leading edge transients and thereby "softening" detail, of which the 415 seems to me to have an excess and consequently distracts from the homogeneity of the composition. "Overly analytic" carts do not appeal to me, the result is listener fatigue. Raul (in his usual subtle style) described the 415 as "unlistenable". The diamond of the 3xx carts are uncolored gems, the 412 and 415 are dark. This is not necessarily bad but the clear diamonds are generally held to be superior.
It's regrettable the carts were mislabeled, in the overall view of cartridges the LPM 420 will probably be held as fairly high in the ranks. Best of luck in resolving this to your satisfaction.
Peace, |
Dear Nandric: +++++ " somtimes the item I payd 20 Euro for in some other shop for 18 Euro and even this small amount causes me sleeping problems... " ++++
because the Krenzler's post in this Lencoheaven tread?:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=6675.105
nothing wrong with me because any one of us is free to sell anything we want.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Timeltel: Good to hear from you again.
++++ " the 5ea with any of the styli you mention will offer more detail and faster leading edge transients than the 7SU, " +++++
I know are like apples and oranges and that's why I'm curious about. I tested both ( as usual in stock condition. ) and what I remember is not precisely that way ( it does not matters what I remember, this is not the subject. ), question: do you heard both cartridges with even SPL?, thank you.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Nikola, I was wondering out loud about the wisdom of re-tipping a brand new cartridge, just as you are. I raised the issue only to learn more about the experience of others who have done it. My conclusion is perhaps to re-tip one of my used and lesser ranking Acutex's, if I re-tip anything, not my LPM320STR, surely. So we are in accord. By the way, what you say about how re-tips are done, by just removing the cantilever/stylus and installing a new cantilever/stylus is enlightening. But is it not the case that the new cantilever can be made of something other than alu? SoundSmith offer ruby, for example. Can Axel do other than alu? One other imagined benefit of a re-tip, in fact for me the major one, would be to renew the suspension. Are you saying that the suspension is not rebuilt? I am pretty sure Raul is having the suspensions rebuilt by vdH. |
Dear Lewm: Perhaps cartridge suspension is the main subject on cartridge re-tip and yes always " suspension refresh " with my cartridges and yes too Axel has: boron, aluminum, berylium and ruby.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Nandric you are so right and i am reconsidering retipping. Many thanks for letting us know how that stylus looks under a microscope. On stylus color 312 shines and my empire 4000d3 is dark.
This moving magnet thread by Rual and returning to use of MMs as been one of best things that's taken place in quite some time on my audio life. Thing is ive watched this thread but never opened it sense it started. Thanks to eric38 I rearrived to these fine music makers and this thread. |
Welcome back Professor. You were missed :-( Computer 'crashes' make one feel so vulnerable and isolated these days? One tip for you now that you have moved to a 'better' platform....Mac....is to buy a Time Machine back-up. They are the size of a hand-held calculator and only cost a couple of hundred dollars? Every 10 days, it reminds you to plug it into a USB Port and will completely 'back-up' your entire Macbook Pro. Not only will this give you peace of mind for the retention of all your data.....but it makes transferring all this data to another device in the future.....an absolute breeze :-)
I trust you were able to fill in your time 'off-line' adequately?.....perhaps playing with some new collectible watch or having some tooth surgery performed?.....then again I hear the local post office puts on some great entertainment at this time of year?
The chief question during your absence was........are the generators within the TK-3, 5 and 7 series Signets....identical? In other words.....will a TK-5/155Lc be the same as a TK-7LCa? My ears tell me a definite 'No'.....but if the generators are the same.....why not? Good to read your modulated wording once again. Take care Henry |
Regards, Raul: The comment you refer to was specifically related to the difference in cantilever influence on the carts Griffithds had asked about, cantilever materials for the styli mentioned were I believe either beryllium or boron. Most would say a beyrillium cantilever will be, not always but usually, less resonant than an aluminum cantilever. The bass seems in particular to be much less rounded and due to what I suspect is cantilever rigidity and the greater tendency for aluminum to flex and the resultant increase of rise time, the hf's more precise with a be. cantilever. There are too many variables to state this will be always so, mass and compliance needs to also be considered. This was not intended to be a comment on the carts themselves (the TK7SU/E motor itself is first class construction), inductance/output impedance is (I really miss my lost data) greater for the 5ea than the 7SU, a significant factor and one that IMHO, results in a degree of "blare" in the higher output carts. This is not the same consideration as detail retrieval.
To answer your question directly, SPL was not a consideration. The comment was derived from long term familiarity with both carts. If you are saying the TK7SU is not lacking in detail, I'll happily agree but the point is with the TK5ea, this is improved with a be. cantilever as compared to one of aluminum. This brings a question of good nature in return, do you not consider excessive resonance (from whatever influence) a fault in detail portrayal? In this consideration, the 5ea with a be. cantilever is superior to the 7SU/aluminum cantilever. Voicing, sound staging and layering is a different matter and in this I find the 7SU more pleasing than the sometimes "crowded" impression I have of the 5ea. As these may be overlapping distinctions, I hope this makes sense.
Most recently listening to J. J. Cale "Troubadour", Clapton "461 Ocean Boulevard" and Johnny Adams "Walking A Tightrope", transducer is a Signet AM20me (miniature elliptical) on a modest(!) second system Pio. PL-70L 11 turntable/carbon fiber arm, Tannoy DC-3000 dual concentric speakers and a 1976 vintage but just last week bench tested and serviced Pio. SX-1050 (gasp) receiver doing the grunt work, two Sony (another gasp) HT active subs chuffing along on the bottom end. At (possibly) the higher end of mid-fi, the gear fits the attitude of the music well enough to leave me just listening to the music instead of the gear, smiling. Am I the only blues enthusiast among this flock of jazz aficionados? Blues groups have saxophonist too!
Thanks for the welcome back, the thread is a "community center" for a number of sophisticated and generous natured audiophiles and I regret not following the progress of the potential for cartridge improvement being discussed by the very knowledgable participants, essentially cartridge design and not a matter for dilettantes. Still curious about your mysterious MC reference cart?
Peace, |
Dear Timeltel: Ok, Ithink understand: we are talking on different subjects, no problem.
No, I think many of us that like jazz like blues too, I just left in my system Prestige pressing: Lightnin Hopkins " Soul Blues " recording.
Blues is very special and even that many times I don't understand very well the lyrics blues really moves me in a different way than jazz.
Regards and enjoy the music, r |
Blues Professor? 45 years ago.....inspired by the early roots of the Rolling Stones......I formed a blues band which played the music of Muddy Waters, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGee, Big Bill Broonzy, Bo Diddley, Little Walter, John Lee Hooker, Mississippi John Hurt, Ray Charles and even Nina Simone. We were the first 'authentic' blues band in Sydney and played professionally 3 nights a week at a small wine bar :^) I've recently 'discovered' Elmore James and Son House. If I could only master the blues harp like Little Walter......I would be a happy camper? |
Dear Lew, There is, I hope, some reciprocity in our mutual sympathy and esteem so I read all your post and enjoy also your literary capabilities. Alas you obviously missed my post (12-05-11) about retip 'kinds' by Axel.The only cantilever of those 'exotic kinds' that I miss is the ruby or sapphire. I asked Alex exsplicit about those but in the list he posted to me thy are not mentioned. Strange because he advertise on the German ebay repaer of all B&O carts. However he added that for 'other combos' one need to ask. BTW I am sure that I emailed to you this list before my post in this thread. But memory problems seem to fit by a scientist. According to one story Einstein deed not recognise his own daughter by some occasion.
Regards, |
Dear Raul, thanks for your info about Acutex 415. Not sure about the connection with those $20 versus $18 which causes my sleeping problem but I assume that you are refering to the price difference between 412 and 420? Regarding your statements about retip and more in particular about the suspension I desagree. I really hate to disagree with you because of my respect for you but I am sure that you also value the truth more then politeness. Now the claim for the truth is of course connected to what we sinsirely belive. No claims for the absolute truth are made in this forum. I have no problem with suspension 'refreshment' as you call it but only reg. the MM carts. In the MC carts the suspension is fastened behind the 'bobbin' with coils. To exchange the 'rubber ring' one need to dissemble the whole cart. Anyway one need to remove the coils first and dissoldere the 4 connection wires. This is of course possible but very time consuming and consquently very expensive. Or so I thought. Ie this is the problem as I see 'it'. Regards, |
Nandric, **The cantilever of those Acutex carts is made from titanium/boron 'alloy' and I am puzzled why aluminum cantilever should be better?** Really, titanium/boron? That's quite unusual and is probably responsible for the voicing (discrepancies?) of these carts. Just based on cantilever length the 415 should be a superior cart, but Timeltel says it sounds overly detailed and like a PA system LOL. To sort this out it would help to find out what the differences are in the generators. That would make it easier to figure out cantilever/generator optimization.
Cantilever properties, mass, length and rigidity determine resonant frequencies and flexing behavior. Aluminum cantilevers tend to resonate within the audio band and this is sometimes used to augment frequency response, especially in MMs. Shorter cantilevers will resonate at a higher frequency and flex less. This flexing behavior is extreme and one of the major reasons aluminum tends to sacrifice detail for warmth or musicality. A cantilever flexing more, will have greater excursions, generally bigger bass, and sloppier detail. Although it's the stylus that reacts directly to groove modulations, it's the movements of the cantilever that cause the generator to produce electricity. Without experiencing these carts, I can only guess about possible improvements based on your descriptions. I suspect Axel would be able to help immensely in this regard. From Timeltel's description, the 415 might also have frequency response issues. If a new cart could be improved, I wouldn't hesitate replacing the stylus especially if you have multiple samples.
On the Chess label there were a couple of great harmonica players, Little Walter and Sonny Boy Williamson (II). If you like blues... Regards, |
Dear Fleib, This is the problem with 'scientific' explanation. We all, I think, believe in scientific explanation and want to see them but when we get them we , or at least the most of us, are not able to understand them. Say 'the human condition'. My problem was what to choose instead of the two 420 which are no more available. I had no idea that this question will lead us to all kinds of resonances and ,say,added metalurgic problems. I should avoid the notion 'alloy' I think but in the user manual by Acutex both 'titanium' and 'boron' are mentioned so I thought both together must be some kind of 'alloy'. To an amateur those 'exotic' materials suggest much better qualities then the 'simple aluminum'. Something like the 'old materials' versus the 'modern higtech' kind. I believe that many of our purchases are 'based' on such (naive) speculations. Actually the cause of my problem was the greed. There was no need at all to buy any MM cart more but the price and the circumstance that I was searching for tose Acutex carts for more the 2 years made me to buy even more than I will ever need. Such is the psychology of 'my' hobby.
Regards, |
Hi All,
Concidering one of the current topics under discussion seems to be about cantiliver material, I have a question. What is the coating on the cantilivers on the 20SS and the 20SLa? When viewed under a microscope, concidering the statements given for various cantiliver materials are alloy, titanium, boron,saphire, I expect to see a nice smooth tube. The 20ss and the 20SLa cantilivers, appear to have been dipped in cement and allowed to harden before the stylus was installed? Nandric, I have in my notes about the Acutex 420, pertaining to the cantiliver, Titanium tapered/Boron coated. I wonder if the coating on the 20ss/20SLa is boron? Anyone know for sure what this stuff is? Regards, Don |
Dear Halcro/Timeltel: That Folk Singer recording is perhaps my more " clicks/pops " recording I have due that I heard it hundred hundred times and still do it.
Btw, Elmore James?: could you give info on recordings?
regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear nandric: I'm not surprised you disagree on the cartridge suspension subject. In several all around subjects ( in audio and out of audio. ) I disagree too due to my ignorance level and that's all.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Professor, you identified the ultimate goal for my system - " just listening to the music instead of the gear". I became interested in audio equipment as a way to enjoy my music all the more. Unfortunately sometimes the tail wags the dog.
It is difficult to worry about which material my cantilever is made from if I'm not involved by the emotion and performance of what I'm listening to. It reminds me of the story from many years ago (although it must still apply to some) about the fellow who only owned ten records to play on his ultra-expensive system -- and they were of either steam-engined trains or thunderstorms! |
Hi Pryso,
"and they were of either steam-engined trains or thunderstorms"
I'm alittle embarrassed to say, but I think I own both of them!
Regards, Don |
Hi Don,
the 20ss is a solid beryllium cantilever... whereas the AT20SLa is a tapered aluminium tube.
I'm not sure about a coating, I think it may just be natural oxidation....
Grado's definitely have a damping layer on the cantilever, and the current Audio Technica solid Boron cantilevers use a sputtered gold coating... so it is definitely not out of the question... Just reviewed my stylus photos of the ATN15ss, looks to me like a natural dull metalic finish, not a coating.
bye for now
David |
Hi Pryso, Cantilever material isn't something to worry about. It's something to learn about and use, just like you might use different armboard materials, only perhaps more important. It doesn't bother me if someone wants to play only sound effects records. Does it really matter if a stereo system is a means or an end? Although I don't have any records of steam engines or thunderstorms (except maybe Weather Report), it might be fun for a few minutes.
I don't think the emotional involvement is exclusive of left brain activity. Even though you might get caught up in a performance, aren't you aware of whether that performance is better or worse when played with different equipment? You don't have to think about it, you know. Regards |
Regards, Halcro: Hi, Henry. I'm also struggling with a loss of memory that doesn't have anything to do with computers so let's see how well this goes!
The TK3ea and 5ea (IIRC) had the same raw specs. The TK1e output increased from 5.0mv to 5.5mv, output impedance was 760? Ohm, the 1ea also had a plastic mount and was subject to microphonic disturbance. Best recollection is that the better measuring carts were designated as "5's", those that measured less well were "3's". The TK7ea/lca measured 580 Ohm and had hand wound coils, AT allowed 20 minutes for the winding of each's coils. The 7's were a tightly controlled and limited production cart, these are well worth seeking out.
The AM (analog master) carts followed the same schedule, the AM10 was higher output, the AM20 through AM50 shared engines, the difference being the quality of the stylus/cantilever. The MR (maximum resolution) line is similarly ranked, starting with the higher ouput 5.0 Basic entry cart with .4 x .7 bonded ellipt., then 5.0e, me, lc and TOTL, the ML, a micro line on Be. cantilever. All styli from what is sometimes referred to as the AT100 body are exchangeable between these carts except for the MR's, which in order to fit the other models will need some plastic surgery.
All of that out of the way, and even if Nikola scolds me for "generalizations" , there is an observable pattern and it might be safe to presume that as with the AT120 through 150 carts, or AT12 through 20, quality improves in both styli and specs as the numbers increase, perhaps the same for the mystifying Acutex engines. It would be risky to argue there is no difference without hard facts on hand.
As you know, the Yamamoto ebony headshell, the one you insisted I have, is very complimentary to the TK7LCa. I'm left wondering how it compares to the TOTL MR 5.0 you've so fleetingly praised?
Peace, |
Hi Griffithds, The 20SS, SLa are beryllium. For quite awhile AT put gold coating on both beryllium and boron. I think they just recently stopped with the OC9III. I'm not sure what the reason was for the coating, maybe durability. Both those materials are brittle and break easily. Regards, |
Regards, Pryso, Griffithds: What? No mention of forty minutes of percussion?
My handy measure is if it sounds good from the next room, it's ok. If it sounds BETTER from the next room, you might want to work on your rig a little...
Peace, |