Hello, I recently replaced my mains conditioner, with a high quality power strip.(Oyaide MG).
The sound is now more detailed, dynamics I didn't know I was missing are back, and air and separation have all improved. I am interested if anyone else has gone back to basics? Cheers
Looks to me like a 3-way guerrilla marketing campaign. Sure they know its not considered appropriate, but they are only interested in themselves. They will have dozens of rationalizations, but bottom line is that this is nothing different from Phil (I liked the shaver so much I bought the company) Ronco's approach to marketing....er I mean shameless self-promotion.
Let me get this straight - (I can laugh during it if it makes you feel better):
Prosound who is rep for Silver Circle Audio makes sales pitch (I don't have any other name for that):
"This power conditioner simply out-performs every other conditioner on the market, period."
and when he is asked about his financial interest Dstanard from Silver Circle Audio jumps in to defend him.
It doesn't look bad up to this point but lets look at another Prosundman thread: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1248441278&openusid&zzProsoundman&4&5#Prosoundman
Same story - Prosoundman makes sales pitch for Silver Circle Audio cables and when asked by Rnadelman for affiliation with the company Dstanard jumps in with his sales pitch and offers demo to Rnadelman who agrees.
Summary: We have here couple of guys who have financial interest advertising product on the forum on offering demo with purpose to sell. This is very unethical and even more disturbing that they don't see anything wrong with it. Are you guys so cheap that you cannot pay for advertising like everybody else?
I invite everybody to read the link I posted and be the judge yourself. Perhaps moderator should read as well.
Dave b - AMEN! there is a very good reason why I usually stay out of forums whether here or on AA. People play on the slightest semantic miscue and flame unsuspecting folks. My friend in Canada owns just about everything we make and is incredibly happy with his kit, as they say in the UK. When anyone in his area wants to see or hear SCA products, he is available to demo the gear. That's about it. Dave, I'm with you, folks around here should lighten up a bit, quit posting threads and listen to some music. Be well.
Sure, I can translate...lighten up a little! Have you no sense of humor man? Loosen that tie and relax for awhile...it's all good:O> FYI, most of my comments are tongue in cheek...sometimes even foot in mouth:O< Enjoy K man...I'm sure your not an extraterestial (ET). Right?
"However, in a sense we are all reps..." - Are you trying to muddy the water? Repping product is a contract activity not the state of mind.
One thread though, hmm?...still a little suspicious - not really. For me this forum is an opportunity to learn (and very grateful for that). It can be achieved by asking questions or reading/absorbing - matter of preference.
"Your not an ET with a jones for audio voyerism are you?"
Well, ok then. However, in a sense we are all reps for ourselves. Reps, whom at some point, will cash in on our good intentions for either some intangible emotional reciprocity or perhaps something more practical, such as cold hard cash:O) One thread though, hmm?...still a little suspicious. Your not an ET with a jones for audio voyerism are you? Now that would be really weird!
"Please! "...other than repping the products in Canada, Prosoundman has no financial interest, stake, claim, or other obligation or relationship to, with, or for Silver Circle Audio"
I'm confused - can you explain this to me?
Is he or is he not rep for Silver Circle Audio(in Canada or elsewhere)? If he is he should disclose it - simple. As far as I know reps don't operate for free (financial interest). If he is not then Audiofeil made false assumption. This is not just opinion - it's a truth.
Thanks Dave, Audiofeil tends to play God alot around these forums. Makes him feel exceptionaly important to correct people on their own opinions:O) Funny how he has only ever initiated 1 thread...only one! Weird no? I geuss it does make sense however, since he trolls for ripe opinions to net, ay'? Arrrrgh, I'll best be goin now and think for myself.
Please! "...other than repping the products in Canada, Prosoundman has no financial interest, stake, claim, or other obligation or relationship to, with, or for Silver Circle Audio. He is simply a former customer, now a good friend, who bought our products, loved them, and asked to be able to show them to others in Canada when the opportunity arose. My email address is posted on our website. Anyone with any questions or issues is respectfully requested to email me personally rather than casting aspersions on other Audiogon members. Thanks, Dave Stanard
It seems to me that your assertion that Prosoundman's opinion is "not the truth" is simply your "opinion" since you apparently know nothing about the power conditioner being discussed. Or do you know something of it? If you have opposing views I for one would be very interested to know what they are. After all, aren't we all here trying to learn more about this hobby of ours?
But I have to admit that it seems odd to me that as a dealer yourself, your only interest in this thread seems to be attacking Prosoundman.
Since when is it unprofessional or unethical to speak the truth? Based on my personal experience, The Silver Circle Audio pure power one 5.0 outperforms every other power conditioner I have experienced whether it be at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest or the local hi-end audio store. This conditioner scrubs the AC as clean as any I have heard while delivering more energy when the music calls for it. It just makes my music sound better. Much better. This is probably why no one has returned the pp1 5.0 after an audition. I know it's why I approached Silver Circle Audio to be their rep here in Canada.
I had my electrician install three 15' runs of JPS Labs In-wall cable from three separate 20amp circuits in my main panel through my living room floor and terminated with high quality Furutech IEC connectors - essentially three DIY power cords wired into the panel. One for each amp and one for an Equitech Q650 which balances the power to my front end components in the rack. No need for outlets. The drop in the noise floor was dramatic. Pictures and a better description can be found on my virtual system page.
I think 2 other issues to consider are how dirty your current power is, and what quality of gear (amp and such) you currently use.
I don't have high end gear (NAD t753 surround, and NAD c372). In my main system (NAD t753), I have two conditioners in use in the one system. One is Richard Gray 400, the other PS Audio Quintet. I have removed both from the system, and only one at a time as well, and always run back to having them back in my system. Installed the PS Audio Duet with my NAD C372, and it sounds much nicer now too.
Yes, they do "color" the sound, but so does any change to interconnect, amp, speaker, etc. All add their own "color" or signature sound. The question is, do you like the change? I'll read the specs and the theory, but I know what my ears like. I'm not a purist. I'll try any reasonable change, as long as I have the option to return the equipment to the dealer. I am lucky that a local dealer allows that. Just test drove 3 sets of speaker cables over the last 3 weeks, and then picked one. This with no cost up front.
I have 2 20 amp dedicated circuits in my reference demo system and found the best solution was to plug the amp into the wall and everything else runs through my MIT Z-powerbar with the digital and video isolated from each other.
If I understand you correctly, it sounds to me that you are connecting your extension cord to a single, isolated, 20 Amp Outlet in the Kitchen.
Wouldn't this technically already be a dedicated outlet? ...and the extension cord is just a great way to use a dedicated outlet in another room?
FWIW, I live in a Condo, and I run an extension cord (to another electrical circuit zone on the other side of the same room), to a non-dedicated outlet to which I connect my Digital Sources and then my Amps and Preamp are plugged into a different zoned outlet in the same room, and I have noticed an improvement by using different outlets connected to different zones on the fuse box, to split up digital and analog gear. I discovered this more out of necessity, but it still sounds better.
Tbg should investigate and audition the Silver Circle Audio 5.0 power conditioner. If he did he would soon experience a lowered noise floor, increased dynamics, improved clarity due to better imaging and resolution and in general a bigger and more musical presentation. My bass extension and increased dynamics were worth the price of the 5.0. The other improvements realized were the icing on my cake. This power conditioner simply out-performs every other conditioner on the market, period.
Tbg wrote: "It looks like the Silver Circle Power One 5 is just a very large transformer." As the owner of Silver Circle Audio, I don't quite know how to respond to this. As dismissive as it is, the comment is, at the very least, uninformed. The pure power one 5.0 also contains a proprietary hand-built filter for eliminating common mode and differential mode noise and the finest electrical transmission components available anywhere. I would not be so quick to dismiss something in so quite an offhand manner until I had experienced it. It might be quite surprising.
Timztunz, I think that you are right on about most power conditioners lacking headroom. It looks like the Silver Circle Power One 5 is just a very large transformer. I think that others, such as Synergistic Research have found more innovative methods to avoid constriction.
IMHO any situation that resulted in better dynamics, fullness, detail and focus AFTER removing the power conditioner, was the result of a power conditioner lacking head room. Speaking from my own personal experience, that would NOT be the case with a Silver Circle Audio pure power one 5.0. Game changing gear, this stuff. Check them out at www.silvercircleaudio.com.
Sme10 - I recently installed Furman 20PFi conditioner. It has three banks of outputs: for high current amps, for audio, for video. I connected my components accordingly. After 1 day of pretty muffled sound dynamics came back, imaging got more focused, midrange opened becoming more detailed, bass is more "even" (midbass resonant frequency disappeared)and shorter but still "punchy" (lower source impedance?). The really strange thing is that my DLP TV picture got much better (sharper, cleaner and more vivid colors). That was pretty much what Furman was promising but it doesn't make much sense (digital OTA signal, digital TV). The only explanation is that presence of noise on power lines (or interaction audio-video) was causing signal jitter (noise in time domain). In addition I sleep better since Furman has non-sacrificial overvoltage protection that clamps at 188V max (not around 300V like many power strips with protection).
Elizabeth, you said "I have noticed the benefit of a using a very long extension cord, as the same benefit as dedicated lines. Get a 50' extension cord 12 or 14 gauge. It will equal the benefits of dedicated lines.. (just do not coil it up!)" I'm new to Audiogon, and have a lot of catching up to do. Extention cord = dedicated line???? Wow. If that's true, I like the idea a WHOLE lot. First, does it matter if the extention cord is made of any particular quality cable, or just any heavy (12 or 14) extention cord, of which I have several around the house. Second, I understand the merits of not coiling it, but how the heck to you manage that? Thanks.
I got rid of my power conditioner years ago, found it robbed the music of life and dynamics. I live out in a rural area though, so that may be be why I can get away with it.--Mrmitch
Very interesting...you might be onto something. I remember in the Kaiser speaker room last year at RMAF there was a power conditioner that was basically just that. He said it was the equivalent to something like 10 miles of wire inside.
Not 10 miles of wire, 10 miles of skin. The wire is but 70 cm.
I'm happy with my dedicated lines and Transparent PowerIsolators. A 100 amp system separate from the power for the rest of the home is dedicated to the AV system. 85 feet of armored 00-gauge cooked & cryoed copper wire runs from the meter to a dedicated Square D QO Panel with switchable lightning grade surge protector. There are 5 armored 12-gauge cooked & cryoed copper wire runs from the panel: 1 for each of the mono blocks, 1 for analog components, 1 digital components and 1 for the video projector. Each circuit has a Transparent PowerIsolator between it and the components connected to that circuit. Most of the PCs are Purist Anniversary, which are much better in my system than Transparent, VD Revelation or Stealth Dream.
As far as I can tell, there is no loss of the awesome dynamics or imaging and the soundstage is wide and deep, though not as tall as I would like.
The PowerIsolators are 3 years old now, so it would not surprise me if the SR Tesla Powercell is indeed better.
I recently tried to replace my PS Quintet with the naim-recommended wiremold strip as my power seems pretty stable and I don't really need surge protection. The Quintet however rendered a fuller sound and soundfield and slightly quieter background. I ended up keeping it.
I had both a conditioner (APC) as well as a high end outlet. I found the outlet (Furetech) didn't do anything and the conditioner seemed to stifle the sound a little. I don't use either now.
Elizabeth, Just a minor point here, but the fact that your various outlets are rated as "x" amps and those "x"s add up to more than 200 does NOT mean you have at least a 200 amp service. You MAY have a 200 amp service (it's not totally unlikely in a modern apartment)but even if you have a 200 amp panel you may not have 200 amp service. The size of the service is limited by the size of the service cable feeding into your meter. The cable coming from the meter to your panel SHOULD be rated to the amperage of the panel. It can be more (and must be by code), but never less. But I have seen plenty of new services installed that were rated higher than the lines feeding them from the power company. The point is that you will never get more juice than what the power lines feeding your panel are capable of delivering, regardless of how all of those individual breaker sizes add up. Lastly, those breakers (that is, individual circuit sizes) are rated at a certain level (15, 20, 30 amp etc) but those (levels--in amperes)are the points at which the circuit breaker will cut out. All the circuits in a panel are not going to be maxing out at once, generally speaking.
I have 2 dedicated 20amp circuits and added an Audio Magic Matrix power conditioner. The Audio Magic Matrix took everything to the next level and I've been incredibly happy with it in my system above and beyond having 2 dedicated 20amp circuits.
anybody have experience with the tara labs products? i am going through a honeymoon phase with a power screen ad/6c and am hard pressed to find much wrong with it although it changes the sound without a doubt. i am also experimenting with some higher end mit pc's and am beginning to think i could be best served with only those as power solutions, to support daves comments...
Dave, Try the Synergistic Research Tesla PowerCell. Prior to it I used dedicated circuits and high end power cords. I had tried all the same power conditioners you list, and concluded that power conditioners do more harm then good. Aside from what you might expect a power conditioner to do in the positive column, the PowerCell actually IMPROVES slam, with my whole system including my amps plugged in!
Very interesting...you might be onto something. I remember in the Kaiser speaker room last year at RMAF there was a power conditioner that was basically just that. He said it was the equivalent to something like 10 miles of wire inside.
Here is the product: http://www.lessloss.com/the-firewall-c-67.html
Dedicated power lines, MIT and Transparent PC's and Wattgate outlets are all I need...no conditioner has worked well, including the best from Shunyata, Transparent and MIT...or PS Audio and Monster.
Elizabeth, that is an interesting solution. I too live in an apartment. When you mention isolated single 20 amp in the kitchen, you're talking about an outlet correct? I assume you then plug the extension cord into this outlet. If you could elaborate more I would appreciate it. Thanks
Argyro, did you plug in your power amp to the Hydra? I have a Guardian 6, which is a lower line product from Shunyata. I plug my digital players and preamp to the Guardian but power amp directly to the wall. It seems to work fine.
The Guardian also interfered with the PEs from Alan Maher Designs at one time. So I moved those PEs to non-audio circuits. My system works well since then.
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