which Audio Research pre-amp?


I've pretty much narrowed down my next pre-amp purchase to an Audio Research 6 or GSPre.  Ultimately, this will be paired with an Ayre VX-R.  For the sake of marital harmony I need to spread the purchases out over a few years.  
Is the 6 that much better than the GSPre?  I like the idea of having an integrated phone section but I read that the 6 / Ref 2 SE combo. blew away the phono section of the GSPre.  I don't listen to vinyl that much.  My current phono pre-amp is a Pass Aleph Ono.  thanks.
russellrcncom
@stlyde,

Congratulations on your recent purchase. You made a great decision to go with Ref6 over GSPre. My dealer told me that GSPre performance rivals the LS28. The REF6 is a definitive upgrade over GSPre or LS28. I went from LS28 / VT80 combo to REF6 / GS150. 

Once you’re settled with the new combo, I highly recommend to upgrade the stock Sovtek 6550WE Tube to SED 6550C Svetlana -C- / Russia Tube. This upgrade yielded tighter bass and more meat to the bones to overall soundstage. 

To my ears, 6550WE Tube had bass less defined and fat, YMMV. 
I recently picked up a clean GS150 amp and my choice for a mating pre is a new Ref 6, which should arrive next week. I know they say the GS150 and GS Pre are styled to go together but I always see the GS Pre as being upside down. And I already have a separate phono pre so the Ref 6 it is for me. 

I hear ya Ralph. Bill Johnson deserves a lot of credit for getting hi-fi moving in the right direction (designing and building for dynamic music reproduction, not for purely static bench test stats), but ARC products are not necessarily the "best" available at any given price point. ARC owners tend to replace one, say, pre-amp, with another ARC, not bothering to compare it with one from any other designer/company. If you look inside the chassis of an ARC design, it's rather disconcerting. Lots and lots of parts, doing what?

When the SP-3 was considered the "best" pre-amp, and Bill Johnson the best pre-amp (and power amp) designer, fellow Minnesota engineer Frank Van Alstine, who was viewed by some as a mere designer of "budget" products, saw some flaws in the design of the SP-3 (involving primarity the pre's linearity, surprisingly low overload characteristics, and mediocre RIAA equalization accuracy), and offered a mod to cure those shortcomings. Bill Johnson was not infallible, not alone in his abilities at designing tube electronics. But he was viewed as the Messiah by those who need a single superior practitioner of any art.

I had (R.I.P.) a good retailer friend who sold ARC, and loved the SP-10. He found the SP-11 totally unacceptable (because of it's white, bleached, hard, grainy sound), and for years believed ARC lost it's way when Rich Larsen and his hybrid design ideas were brought in. But ARC customers kept buying them, for whatever reason. ARC had already established it's legendary status and loyal customer base, which remains intact. That dealer, by the way, flipped when he heard my pair of M60's, and got himself a pair of the Novacrons! 

A reasonable question a-s, the answer being ARC pre-amps have a certain cache' amongst audiophiles. My question is, why doesn't the op audition both the ARC pre's he is interested in at an ARC dealer? Doesn't trust his own judgment, but "knows" that ARC pre's are "the best"?


I can't understand the cache'! There are better preamps out there for less money. But your point is well taken.
Get the ARC Ref 10 linestage if you can afford it. PSU is in a separate compartment unit. 
Quite a big step up from the Ref 6.
I had this Ref 10 linestage in my previous setup but I have since upgraded my setup and system to something else. 
But I'm still using the ARC 10 phonostage pre for my Kronos Pro turntable.
For the life of me I cant figure out why your not going with an AYRE KX-R Twenty Pre instead of Arc.  I have the REF 10 and the KX-R Twenty so I am not biased (Fanboy) to either brand. Why would you think the synergy is better with Arc?
I have a Ref5se and had a VX-R then VX-R Twenty running first Vandersteen 5a the 7’s
pretty magical combo
i have heard the 6 in several very nice systems and gs as well but not isolated enough to understand subtlety between units.... good advice on getting them home if you can
the VX-R is a fantastic amp !!!
as for Ralph’s comments - consider his fine preamp also in your price range, when it comes time to replace my 5se, I will be doing that for sure
have fun !
enjoy your search and the music!!!!
@bdp24 is correct:  LISTEN to both in your system at home and then make a decision. What YOU like has no bearing on what others think or say or post.

As a former dealer, I am always amazed at people who do not wish to make their own decisions about gear.  Asking for opinions is an excellent way to weed out items that may have reps for breaking or poor manufacturer support, etc., and of course it is always nice to hear what others think about something subjective, but in reality, the decision is YOURS alone.

Take them both home and buy the one that sounds best to YOU.  As for cables, etc., well, let's just say that the electrons I have personally interviewed seem to be able to travel along wires fairly well regardless of the name on the box and let's leave it there.

Cheers, and good listening!
ARC fan here.

I’d go with the REF-6 for sure.

You say that you don’t listen to vinyl very often. You could save yourself some $$$ and go with a used PH-8.

Frank
@lostbears,

“The GSPre is on my too ugly to own list. It just looks like it is upside down”

That’s funny...but I hear you. I felt the same way and end up mating my GS150 with REF6. 

 The Ref 5se is very close to the GSPre. The Ref 6 is a bit better. The Ref 2se phono stage is also better than the one in the GSPre. The Ref 6 and Ref 3 Phono or Ref 2se Phono combination would be my choice. I own a Ref 5se and Ref Phono 2se and they are magnificent.  The Ref Phono 2se has 2 inputs so you can have 2 arms or 2 separate tables.

BTW The GSPre is on my too ugly to own list. It just looks like it is upside down.




OP,

Since you already own a phonostage, I would recommend REF6 over GSPre. The analog section of REF6 is far superior than GSPre.


A reasonable question a-s, the answer being ARC pre-amps have a certain cache' amongst audiophiles. My question is, why doesn't the op audition both the ARC pre's he is interested in at an ARC dealer? Doesn't trust his own judgment, but "knows" that ARC pre's are "the best"?
?? Why does it have to be ARC? Is that the only preamp that will allow marital harmony?
The Ayre has a balanced input, so a balanced tube preamp seems to be what you are after. FWIW, the ARC preamps while balanced, don't actually support the balanced standard. So if you go with one of them, you'll have to be careful to audition the interconnect cable too, to get the best results. OTOH, if the preamp supports the balanced standard, then the interconnect cable won't be an issue (and you'll be able to run it longer distances, which might be helpful if you want to keep it out of sight).