+1 on Tavish. Though I have limited experience with different stages, I put my Vintage Tavish is the same conversation with my Phonomena II. The Phono was a great pre, but when it died, I wanted tubes. The Tavish fit the need. Though, the last I heard, there is a wait to get one.
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Aesthetix IO Signature with combination of NOS and modern tubes. Sounds great to me, and absolute bliss every time I play records. Tubes are the only things I have replaced over the 13-14 years of ownership. Experimented with ASR battery phono in early 2000s and Einstein phono later on. I am convinced the Aesthetix will remain for a long time. |
When you select a phono stage, all you have to consider are: tubes vs ss balanced vs se available gain active RIAA vs passive RC vs LCR vs LR RIAA correction Number of inputs, switchable? On board cartridge loading or not And there’s more. So it is no wonder that there are so many viable products out there in the market. And it is no wonder that there is little to no agreement on which one is the best. However, if you can afford to tie up some dollars while you audition for yourself, it is to a limited degree possible to compare phono stages in one’s own system. You can buy used and resell what you don’t like. |
In my own system TRON Seven Reference - beautiful boutique English tube phono - distributed by Jeff Catalano at Highwater Sound in NYC. If you want a giant killer phono tube stage, then the entry level TRON Convergence is stunning at the price - HWS system incl TRON Convergence rated amongst Best Sound of Show at RMAF by many. |
I too have owned a Rhea since 07. It replaced an ARC PH 3. The only other phono stage under consideration was the Manley Steelhead as I have the Neo Classic monoblocks. When I first purchased the Rhea it was noisey so Aesthetix re-tubed it for me at no charge and it has worked fine since then all though one will never get a solid state noise floor. I have a dedicated room so enjoy a wonderful soundstage and imaging presented by Maggies and generated by a loaded LP-12/Shelter 90X combo. I am not one to change just because so until I experience a considerable sonic difference in something I'm happy as is |
Maybe if we could compare easily few companies would survive for long. While sometimes it is a matter of match and preferences, at other times it is clearly better/worse. The same in other areas - lawyers, doctors, programmers and many others. Yeah, Aesthetix has been proven to be good to many people for quite some time, though some of those people eventually moved higher, I heard. Allnic ranks very high these days, from the entry model and all the way up. I would want to avoid it but I can't rule out that I would have to try a few one by one by buying and selling. New Allnic 1202, their least expensive model, should be even better than before because they added tube power supply. |
I have a Conrad Johnson TEA2MAX, high gain (55db) and a Bob's SUT set to 5:1 and it sounds mighty good with my Ortofon Per Winfeld. Trouble for all of us is that we don't know how all of these compare with each other. Isn't it ironic that in today's market with the plethora of choices available to us, there is no way to make comparisons? This dilemma exists for phono stages, and cartriges, and turntables, and arms, and interconnects and.... |
Hey Inna, interesting thread! I've run an Aesthetix Rhea for about 10 years and like it (but don't love it). After a few years, of daily use, I need to re-tube it as it gets very noisy, and it uses 10 tubes = expensive! But I've owned and tried many phono setups, and this one does deliver a wonderful musical experience with the large-scale orchestral music that is my mainstay. It won't solve the problem that Ralph as pointed out about feeding a tape recorder directly, but it's a nice unit otherwise. I lust after Ralph's (Atma-Sphere) MP-1 preamp as my ultimate phono. Unfortunately, high end has become even more high and I've never been able to afford one on a fixed income. I have a pair of Ralph's M60 amplifiers that are my all-time favorites, hope to never part with them. They are wonderful room heaters in the cold northern winter. I'm also a fan of Modwright's gear, having had multiple tube-infused digital pieces that Dan has built. He has a new recently introduced phono stage that is incredibly impressive (in an unfamiliar system), but again too expensive for my budget. But I've heard he also is introducing a lower-priced version that uses trickle-down technology, might be terrific, knowing Dan. Worth your while to check it out? Hope this helps. |
I have the Mayer phono stage as well as the companion 801A line stage and have 300B monoblocks on the way next week. The sound is transparent, dynamic, smooth and totally silent of background noise, even with the 76dB gain of the phono stage. Each piece is hand made by Thomas and the layout can be changed as needed by the buyer. For past phono stages I have had Coincident, Allnic 3000, Herron, Cary and many others. I see no neded to ever swap out the Mayer stuff for any other. The Elrog tubes are also produced by Mayer. He bought the factory last year when the tunes had quality issues and now they are fabulous. |
Unless I have the tape machine modified. How difficult is it ?@inna It might not be that hard. I think the big problem to vercome is not input impedance, but the overall gain. But if the input impedance is dealt with, then no need for a transformer- so you might have enough gain at that point (a line transformer steps down, so reduces gain). That might be the easiest solution, and changing the input impedance should not be difficult. A look at a schematic will tell a lot. |
@orpheus10 No, i live in Russia and i don't need Chinese tubes, we still have Soviet Military tubes from the 70's available, some people love them, some Japanese manufacturers (like Luxman) use new Russian tubes in their new made in japan amps. My ex Luxman amp was full of Russian tubes branded Luxman (i'm proud that Japanese manufacturer prefer Russian tubes over Chinese :). However, NOS vintage Telefunken, Sylvania Gold Brand, Matsushita are on another level compared to all new tubes i have tried, not even close, absolutely different experience, really. However, the Soviet military tubes are cheap as chips and amazing for its price. |
@orpheus10 Although NOS tubes are expensive, I would never purchase any that were even more expensive as a result of "exclusivity". Any NOS tube from military bunch made by Telefunken or Mullard in the 50s or 60s are exclussive nowadays, but you pay more for the brand. Japanese tubes are no so expensive, as far as i know British Mullard made Matsushita tube factory in Japan. Those japanese tubes are really amazing and highly competitive to the best British made Mullard, but for less $ |
Who else makes tube preamps with excellent phono that could compete with Ralph's design ?@inna The problem you have is driving the input of the tape machine. If you are going to use a stand-alone phono section, it will undoubtedly have to use a matching transformer in order for you to do that. |
Not 40 models but maybe 10 or so that I would like to audition, theoretically speaking. Since I won't go to dealers unless they have it used, what do I do, buy and sell them one by one or take a guess ? Also, since I would be rarely play records after making recordings, most of the time the phono and turntable would be just sitting there. I believe that two track 15 ips recordings would be just or almost just as good as vinyl, better in some respect - smoother and more coherent, and in some cases of bad original recordings even 7.5 ips would be enough. What would be better overall - separate phono plus transformer or, say, Ralph's MP-3 preamp with phono ? Probably it depends, on the phono and the transformer. When choosing the equipment, especially expensive equipment, that I plan to keep for a long time, first of all I try to form an impression of a designer. It should also be easy to have it repaired and maybe upgraded and even customized. Here Atma-Sphere wins, I think. In addition, I pay attention on this forum to who uses what and with what, and their music preferences if I can figure it out. Allnic, though not the entry level model, is indeed used by some serious audiophiles. Allnic comes with NOS tubes, I guess, and they have replacement. I did hear very positive opinions of Aesthetix and Tron phono stages before. So, if I wanted to get into it right away, I would start with these four companies - Atma-Shere, Allnic, Aesthetics and Tron. Lamm is impossible to find used and if it was it would most likely be too much to pay for. Atma-Sphere would be the first to try. Besides, what Ralph makes looks very much like pro equipment, this should match well with pro deck. And MP-3 should match well with many power amps, but again I may in fact only need it to make recordings if deck goes directly to power amp. I would of course compare directly to power amp with by way of preamp. Maybe both excellent but somewhat different..? |
I have had a count on the recommendations, and I make it approximately 40 suggested models to consider. I am assuming in ascending new purchase price value these range from $ 750ish to $3000++. That is a large range to attempt to get a audition, and even harder if sitting it out for a used model. As used models, the suggestions, I would assume will as a purchase range from $ 500 to $2000++. At these values a audition will be wise before a purchase. A punt on a lower value in my view would be worthwhile, if you got a offer accepted that would reflect a easy resale. It would only seem like a wise choice if it surpassed your present model in performance. As a individual who is on a search for a keeper Phonostage, and as part of their search, has had a opportunity to hear a good range of Commercial and DIY Phonostages played through one High Value System, throughout a day, at a event referred to as a, 'Phonostage Bake Off '. I can assure you that as the Phonostages rise in ascending values, there comes a point where there is a very obvious gap between performances. In my listening experiences, most commercial phonostages in the £500 - £1500 purchase values have a similar sound with a emphasis on a differing frequency in a recording, i.e, Highs, Mids, Lows. This is seen in comparing SS, and Valve, or dare I say it Valve Hybrid at these prices. There are obvious differences between SS and Valve. The Pro's and Con's of each design are laid out and the strengths and weakness's are there to be identified with ease. I assume this is because each format share similar Topology's and circuit designs. As the models that enter the auditions, become more individual in their designs and increase in value, the Phonostages heard earlier start to seem very weak contenders. The Phonostages being heard in both formats start to really grab individuals attentions, to a point of needing to outwardly express support for the device in use. This is the point where a individuals personal preference is being stimulated, once this is met, the value of being a attendee is met as well. I have heard a Tom Evans at a event, in the system I heard it played through, IMO it is a Phonostage that sits comfortably in its price range but does not get close to the higher value performers. I heard a Modwright SE 9.0, played through the same system, IMO I would have much enjoyed taking this home to trial in my system. It was a unique performer and the attendees were very much in praise of it. It was deserved of its place in the line up, being very memorable to this day. I own a Clones Audio PA1 Phonostage, that was trialed at a event, again it sits comfortably in the up to £2000 value, so punches above its weight, in relation to purchase value. This view was supported by the comments made about it, following its audition. I hope to have my present in use DIGNA at a event in the near future, I know it can be trialed with more expensive/individual designs. It is a curiosity to see how far up the scale it can measure. Another thing that is of interest to a MC user, connecting a variety of SUT's to a MM Input can have a serious effect on a performance. It is worth taking the time to trial different devices. I think for Inna, it would be prudent to dealer trial, a few models from the low purchase price, mid price and top price. This will allow you to assess where your personal preference to SQ is found and where your selection of a model can be shortlisted from 40 recommendations. |
@orpheus10 As everyone knows, Audio Research makes nice preamps; I borrowed one of their SS amps, and it was thumbs down immediately, I don't know if they still make SS amps. Nelson Pass discovered some amazing transistors, tube lovers blown away. Read more aboit SIT transistor here. Another one is Silicon Carbide (SiC) JFET here. Personally i am more happy with SS preamp (Pass Labs Aleph L and First Watt B1), SS phono stages (Gold Note PH-10 and JLTi) and SS power amps (First Watt F2J). Some of my rare tubes in my ex WLM amp. It was a great amp and great NOS tubes. I don't use tube amps anymore, but still have some amazing vintage tubes. I bet you can recognize military Telefunken E84L? Ok, how about some of the rarest japanese tubes (the small ones on this picture). Matsushita AMS 12at7WA GOLD PINS, the round logo and seamed top is a dead giveaway. Military contract, I'd bet, based on the gold pins and 3 micas. The top is domed and has gold pins. Is this extremely rare vintage high-end design. Interesting tube! I believe they call that a "pinched waist", and it was done to promote mechanical stability of the internals for low microphonics. Tubes with pinched waists go for serious $$$. Matsushita tube facilities in Japan was made by British Mullard! Tube lovers, imagine how good those military 12at7WA GOLD can be? I haven't seen tubes after 1960 with a pinched waist. Pinched waist tubes have an indented ring around the middle portion of the glass tube. They're quite rare, and thus quite expensive. The most well known pinched waist tubes are from Philips Heerlen and Valvo Hamburg. They were made mid to end 50s and have the glass pinched around the top mica spacer. I assume this was done to fight microphony. |
Inna, you will have the ultimate phono if you get this one; https://www.fmacoustics.com/products/phono-linearizers/fm-223/ |
Chakster, these tubes have made my phono sound better than twice the price; yes, the tubes cost more than the phono, but they're worth it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g2VhyU69Og As everyone knows, Audio Research makes nice preamps; I borrowed one of their SS amps, and it was thumbs down immediately, I don't know if they still make SS amps. |
@orpheus10 SS makes sounds, Tubes make music; to some people, sounds sound better than music, plus they dote over the lack of sound, which they call "silence", and nothing is quieter than SS, it exceeds in making no sounds, but since it wasn’t making music, the matter is moot. What? You are still in the 70s with such a strange impression of a transistor sound? Discover Pass Labs or First Watt gear, compare them to the best tube gear and you will realize the truth. I’ve been using an expensive tube push-pull amps with some of the rarest NOS tubes, now i’m using single ended class-a amps designed by Nelson Pass, made by Pass Labs and First Watt. His state-of-the-art power transistors (JFETS aka Silicon Carbide, SiC) are very special, some of them are unique Static Induction Transistor (SIT aka VFET). They are much better than tubes of any kind. And tube lovers should love it. Music lovers love tubes, and tubes are cheaper because you can double the quality of a tube phono with NOS tubes. LOL. You can double the budget for a phono stage by adding a pair of NOS tubes. |
I can easily understand why someone would insist in tube only. Unless your budget is unlimited, you can not just sample phonos endlessly, you must have some idea of what you want. SS makes sounds, Tubes make music; to some people, sounds sound better than music, plus they dote over the lack of sound, which they call "silence", and nothing is quieter than SS, it exceeds in making no sounds, but since it wasn't making music, the matter is moot. Music lovers love tubes, and tubes are cheaper because you can double the quality of a tube phono with NOS tubes. |
Can't see why one would eliminate a whole array of potential candidates by insisting on tube only. Shouldn't the question be - what are some of the best sounding phono pres regardless of what devices happen to be inside them? I use a CJ Premier phono in one system and it is very good, but not as good as the phono pre in my main system, which is solid state. |
