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What's up with the analog "echo" phenomenon?

I was recently listening to an Analogue Productions LP record: "The Intimate Art Pepper". I couldn't help but notice--particularly on the solo horn cuts--an anoying echo-type of phenomenon. Actually, it is more like a reverse echo with the quieter "decay" sound proceding the loud actual intended sound by about a half second. I hope this makes some sense. Actually, I've noticed this for years on other analog recordings. It is very noticable during very quiet passages just before a loud passage. I didn't expect to hear this on a supposed "audiophile" pressing.

Is this phenomenon a necessary evil in the analogue tape medium?
mstram
11 responses Add your response
jvogt
212 posts
 
It's called pre-echo, and in not uncommon on vinyl
recordings. The stylus is reading loud passages on
the adjacent inside groove.

On tape, an echo is frequently due to print-through.
The magnetic tape, when it sits tightly wound,
prints through the magnetic signal to the adjacent
layer, and can be heard as an echo.
rcprince
3,073 posts
 
In addition to Jvogt's explanation, even with a record it may not be the vinyl's fault, as sometimes the old analog tape has print-through on it, which you'll hear even if the vinyl is cut well enough to minimize pre-echo. For example, the Classic reissue of the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra has what I thought was pre-echo at a few points, but when I heard the CD the same problem was there, indicating that print through on the master tape was the culprit.
rockvirgo
587 posts
 
It's part of the vinyl experience. The sound you hear is in the adjacent, upcoming groove.
mstram OP
83 posts
 
Thanks to all who responded with these interesting explanations!
pbb
1,140 posts
 
Ah the joys of vinyl, the perfect analog medium. Makes listening to music more exciting since you have a taste of what the next groove will deliver. It's even better than "continuousness": it is an overlap almost. So you see, digital has holes between the samples, vinyl, on the other hand, puts information on top of information; no gaps, no holes, just pure liquid, uninterrupted music!
Ag insider logo xs@2x
ivanj
35 posts
 
It's actually the voice of Paula Zahn from CNN.
mstram OP
83 posts
 
What a relief!!! So they're really not including subliminal messages with each record we buy: "...spend more money on audio gear..."
imin2u
392 posts
 
I worked as a recording engineer for major artists in the Phili/NYC area for 5 years. The tape phenomena listed above was always prevented by storing the right reels (played off) vs the left reels (which are rewound). This was standard practice everywhere.

Print-through DOES occur. I do not deny that. But careless storage plays a part in what you're hearing. (Or the adjacent inner groove was cut too hot on the vinyl lathe).
tobias
1,534 posts
 
Thanks for the info, Imin2U. It makes sense that studios would be aware of the print-through phenomenon, and do something about it.

It also makes sense that some would be careless, either in storage or on the lathe. I have a certain number of discs which show pre-echo, and also many that don't.
bob_bundus
1,834 posts
 
Please elaborate on print-through?
I always knew you should store your tapes "tails out" but only after being played? In other words if you fast wind, you're still storing tails out, but the tape is not packed the same way as if it was just played. Does that matter? Seems to me that whether stored rewound or forwarded would still exhibit this problem. Yet a played-back reel is packed even tighter isn't it? So how does that prevent print-through?
I know this is true because I have some tapes that are degraded while others aren't. What's up with that?
bomarc
501 posts
 
Bob: "Tails out" isn't the important thing. The important thing is that you don't want to store tapes that have just been wound/rewound at high speed.They would be packed tighter than a tape played at normal speed, and would therefore be more prone to print-through. That, at least, is my understanding, though I'll admit to having little experience with RtR.
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