David,
I didn't know KC was involved in designing the Renaissance. Kudos if he was. As I mentioned, it's the second best I've heard. Decidedly better than the Rhea or Lamm in my own experience. If I were buying a commercial unit the Renaissance would be my choice from those I've heard.
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The Walker Reference is without a doubt the best I've heard, although I amnot sure if that is sold only with the Proscenium Gold table or separately. |
Clearaudio Balanced Reference phono stage with dual mono power supply and phono stages. Best to my ears among few very few good ones that I auditioned. |
i've owned or had in my system a few good phono stages including the Aesthetix Io, Io Sig w/dual power supplies, the Lamm LP2 Delux, BAT VK10SE and Blowtorch. i've heard the Connoisseur Definitions 4.0, Boulder, Manley, Wavac, and others at shows.
the phono stage in the battery powered darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp that i am currently using must be considered as a contender as best phono stage. it's extremely low noise floor, other-worldly dynamics, and ease and naturalness make it the best phono stage i have heard.
some of the phono stages i have only heard at shows may be as good or better but nothing i have experienced would indicate that. |
Just heard the phono stage in the Audio Note Japan (KONDO) M1000. Ouch! This has to be one of the best I've yet heard, can't afford one but for those with pockets...... |
Didn't Kevin Carter or K&K Audio phono stage fame design the Renaissance when he was with VAC? The K&K bested the Io (non sig) Rhea, and Klyne in the test we did. Never heard the Supratek |
FWIW, the phono stage in the Nick Doshi Alaap has been A/B'd by one Alaap owner or another against Aesthetix Io, Aesthetix Rhea, Klyne, Lamm LP2 and all three Suprateks. (Probably more, but those are the ones I'm sure of.)
The Alaap is better than any of these. Io, Rhea, Klyne and Supratek Grange owners have all replaced their units with one of Nick's. I am unbelievably lucky to have met him and to own one.
Swampwalker's VAC Renaissance came closer to my Alaap than any phono preamp I've heard. It didn't have quite the frequency extension but it was close in most other respects. I'd also love to hear Raul's, which I suspect is very good indeed.
These private built designs offer opportunities for no-compromise componentry and fanatically careful circuit layouts at a relatively affordable cost. When a design goes commercial then compromises must occur and/or the price must go through the roof. Private builders making one unit at a time can indulge in luxuries that would be impractical for a commercial operation.
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4yanx, I've ordered separates from Nick. Just to let everyone know that is an option. |
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When the opportunity comes, it would also be great to hear the Aesthetix IO, Lamm LP2, Klyne, Nick DoshiÂ’s, Audion Quattro, Raul's phonostage, Messenger (this along with Raul's, the Doshi and Audion are full function preamps), FM Acoustics, Connoisseur, and Boulder. Raul's phonostage? Has anyone actually heard one of these besides Raul? |
I have been using the H-Cat phono for several years. I has the same character as the P-12BX line stage, namely very transparent, open, and clear. It has excellent top and bottom ends.
I have not tried other phono stages lately but were I to do so, it would be the Einstein Tube. I have heard it in other systems and can say I heard how quiet it is and been impressed with its sound. I also have friends who rave about it saying the reviews which are raves fall short of telling what it is capable of. Until I try it in my home, I will not know whether it has the "magic" of the H-Cat. |
heard clearaudio few lines, ear 834p, dynavector, audible mod 3 built in. By far the best is the GSP Gold Era V. At $950 per piece, its money well worth. |
Today I happily live with the Wavestream Kinetics phonostage and another MC tube unit that has been extensively modified. The Wavestream unit is a MC tube unit is designed by Scott Frankland in collaboration with the folks at the Analog Room in SF/Bay area CA. Scott was formerly of the “F” in MFA Audio back in the 80s when they made the highly regarded, Magus and Luminescence full function preamps.
It was a couple of incidental, independent/unrelated correspondence with two Audiogon members who were longtime owners of a Manley and an ASR Basis Exclusive, respectively, that first tipped me off to this unit. At the time, I knew Wavestream makes ultra expensive monoblock amps, but did not realize they offered a phonostage. These two Audiogoners (enthusiast whose listening priorities nearly align with mine) had nothing but really good things to say about Scott’s new creation and they both ended up selling their prior reference phonostages after hearing them against the Wavestream. After extensive chats with these members and with Scott and Brian (of the Analog Room), I decided to purchase one and am glad I did. I have since settled on the NOS tube combo that I like best. We will soon hear this phonostage against the BAT VK-P10SE with Power Pak (a local audio club member is really anxious to do this) and two other units retailing for 2 – 4 times more. Will provide details when they are available. When the opportunity comes, it would also be great to hear the Aesthetix IO, Lamm LP2, Klyne, Nick Doshi’s, Audion Quattro, Raul's phonostage, Messenger (this along with Raul's, the Doshi and Audion are full function preamps), FM Acoustics, Connoisseur, and Boulder. So if you own one of these units and you and your phonostage happen to be visiting Southern CA, then you both are welcome to come on by for a great listening session.
I have a VPI extended Aries with a JMW 12.5 arm with an upgraded 12.6 bearing assembly plus two 12.6 wands and three cartridges: a Koetsu, Miyabi, and VDH. Have heard all the above phonostages extensively in my system, most of which I have owned, borrowing only a few from members of our audio club (all are stock unless noted).
Over the years, I heard the Trumpet, Threshold Fet 10e (stock @ first then with a modded PS), Rowland Consonance, Counterpoint SA-1k/3k/5k (stock and tube rolled), Groove, Vinyl One (full optioned and modded with Goldpoint volume pot & premium NOS tubes), Whest, Ear 88pb, Air Tight ATE-2 (NOS tubed + Bent Audio MU step-up tranny), BAT VKP10SE, ASR Basis Exclusive, Manley Steelhead (stock & tubed rolled) plus at least 6 prototypes (5 tube and 1 ss phonostages) designed by some very talented California audio engineers. A couple of these prototype units were truly superb, but they were either a one-off or special order unit and their availability is questionable to impossible. |
1. Anything I designed myself.
2. Anything anyone else designed which sounds better than what I designed.
3. This list is not neccessarily in order. |
Art Audio Vinyl One with MM/MC and gain control knob has been most enjoyable for the investment for me. I enjoy a more natural sound. It's mated to Origin Live Illustrious arm, Shelter 90x cart, SOTA Nova V vacuum tt.
The playback I get is often haunting with an "I am there where the music is being made" presence. Seems wonderful across all music categories. Anyhow, that's my(very satisfying) experience as I've progressed up the ladder.
I do not want to afford anything much higher priced although I am quite certain I would even be more thrilled with the playback results. |
Listen to the Thor TA-3000 with separate power supply when you have a chance it worked for me |
pass labs aleph ono does great things with my benz ruby 2 and vpi aires. was equally smashing w/ a grado statement. lottsa fun to play with also |
I owned a Linn Linto SS and it was the quietest phono amp that also sounded very good that I have ever heard yet I now own Aesthetix Rhea and am very pleased. Cheers! |
The one that I own - the 47 Lab Phonocube. It sounds very natural. I think the weak link in my system is my table.
Cheers,
George |
I have heard the Aesthetix IO signature but I would not list it as the best I've ever heard.
I have heard the Boulder briefly, but seriously, $25,000??? If I had the money I would still not buy a $25,000 phono section.
The Rhea is good, but a little too noisy for me.
The best one that I've spent any time with is the Pass Labs X-Ono.
Based on information I have gotten directly from friends who are owners of the Manley Steelhead I am think seriously of buying one.
So there, you have another post that really doesn't offer much help... |
I notice that alot of people speak highly of the Aesthetix products in this thread, i have been looking for a new phono pre, and have found an estate sale that is selling alot of high end stereo equipment, and i can pick up a
Aesthetix Callisto Signature, for not much money, has anyone heard this particular preamp, and would it be worth $900 ?? |
So far the Hagerman Trumpet with NOS RCAs. |
I loved the Aesthetix Rhea. I ended up buying the Conrad Johnson EV1 though, and it's marvelous, especially at its price point. I haven't heard the Boulder yet, but from what people have told me it's the most amazing piece of gear on the planet. The local Boulder dealer, who also carries Aesthetix and BAT, told me point blank "Do yourself a favor and don't listen to the Boulder. It's THAT good." |
Jeff Rowland Cadence sounds better even using entry level
table and cartridge than any other setup I have heard
regardless of the price
The music arrives from dead silent background
it is coherent and inner detail is to die for, the cleanest
Ive heard, but If you know Rowland gear you know what Im
talking about |
Vendetta Research SCP-2T, of which perhaps half a dozen exist. |
The "Best" Phono stage I have heard was a cross between two.
As was said before "the best" does not make sense because the rest of the system matters too much.
But anyway..... Back in the early 80's.....
I Really liked my ML-1 Levinson. It totally trashed all the Audio Research (The other High End company of the time) options out there.
Then again I was using a Fidelity Research FR1 Mk3 Phono cartridge and The ML-1 had a phono section option specifically for that cartridge.
(I miss that cartridge - I had it in a Cyrinx Arm on a Linn)
An "Equal" preamp to that one was my old ancient STAX preamp.
Well - the STAX I had was one of the last SRA-12S's made and the circuit was slightly different.
The STAX was quite modified by me - especially in the power supply sections. I also reduced the feedback in the phono section to increase it's gain enough for my FR1-MK3. Also changed a few capacitors.
Just the other day I found those STAX circuit boards. I was surprised to find I still had them.
When time allows I'll build it up again.
My preamp now is an Audible Illusions M3A.
Parts quality is outstanding and it doesn't really have a "Tube Sound" which gets me sick.
(I'll get flamed for that!!)
But - I'm not really a tube fan.
Every time I change tubes (even from the same batch of a tube buy) I have a different sounding preamp.
It's the nature of tubes - Their characteristics vary too much from unit to unit which puts different tubes at different operating points of their "gain curve".
To a lesser degree - JFETS have that same issue.
When I sold STAX - I listened to the 4 preamps we had and took home the best sounding one.
The ML-1's I've heard all sounded the same - they are bipolar based. Although "Beta" of bipolar transistors can vary quite a bit, the "Operating Point" of different bipolars in a circuit are quite predictable
I digressed |
Though I do not have that much experience with tt would like to say that I have just acquired an ear 834 deluxe and am quite happy. |
I have`nt heard them all.The Herron is superb,and so is the Aesthetix.I listened to the Manley for a week when it first became available,i was impressed,but not blown away.I sold my first Walker reference while i was doing all this listening,regretted it,bought another,and now i am a happy camper again.I am a tube freak too,but there is something about this Walker phonostage that is very satisfying.Now mind you,i did say i have`nt heard them all. |
Counterpoint SA-9 modified by Michael Elliott:
removing 2 SS buffers, changing to Dynamicaps, removing MC stage, changing output volume control to naked Vishays, changing to high impedence circuit to have tubes directly drive output volume control, better Diodes, changing electrolytics to Blackgates, adding circuit damping
All of these pay off in sound quality. |
I think it depends very much on combinations. I do not think that, with many years and spending a lot of unnecessary money (of course, within my own financial means) pursuing the so call "best single" component per se, makes me realize that there is one such component exists but eventually to presume that the whole concept is just simply a business ball game. It is strictly a system dependence. You can have the so called "best Phono" but to a larger extent you have to consider the cartridge/s to go along with it. I feel that there isn't any single best PHONO STAGE to cater for different cartridge/arm/turntable/preamp combinations. If so, we will at least not to receive reviews on components. Even reviewers have to admit that their reference system has to be changed from time to time. More so, with careful notice, it is the combination of the whole system that got to be changed from time to time let alone the speakers. You can't simply find any reviewer to just to stick one best component and allow the rest of the system to evolve. So, I would advise that, with these forums, try to find out the musically satisfied combination of components from others and of which, it fits nicely within your financial capability. |
The phono stage in my Supratek Grange is absolutely breathtaking; best I've ever owned/heard in 42 years of audio. |
Nothing can beat the midrange of the BAT VK-P10SE SUPER PACK.
Yes, not even the Aesthetix IO Signiture. I heard them both. |
I'm a statified Herron owner who gets to hear the seemly top two contenders (the I/O Sig & Lamm) on a regular basis. I never come home after hearing either the Lamm or I/O with preamp envy. I like the no fuss aspect of the Herron's. The Herron's are at their best with current production tubes and are easy on them. IMO, the Herron's are under appreciated in audio land. |
Best phono preamp and moving coil section I have had is the
moving coil card or input which Levinson put in his preamps.
Lots of adjustments and tons of gain without hum. Plus it
sounded super. I think the sensitivity of the input is
critical to the sound you get: too little and the sound is
dark and not dynamic or even might be peaky; too much and
the overload is prominent on peaks. Close to the Levinson
have been transformers which match the cartridge used; a
hum problem at times, but usually can be worked out with
grounding and careful placement of the transformer.
CEM |
LAMM LP2 is an amazing unit, not adjustable, but works with everything at a very high level, yes, I think, that's one of the best out there, very silent and for the adjustable transistor units, the Klyne 7 PX closes the gap between tube and transistor. |
www.wnaudio.com
Beat the groove I had previously. |
There is absolutely no way to give a definitive answer to this thread question,and everyone probably knows this!Too many variables.To many differing tastes;and really too many fine products.Basically anyone happy with their unit will,most likely,nominate it.That being said,what one can do is indicate a unit that sounded good in a given system.One that may have been so impressive(the system) that weight is given to the phonostage,even though other factors were probably at play.Sort of like going to a nice restaurant,with a fun,lively crowd.You had so much fun,that you give a bit more credit to the food.Next time you go there,by yourself,you are a bit disappointed.Just "food" for thought,though I do love the Aesthetix,and the CJ!!The Lamm ain't bad either.Oh,yeah--the Steelhead is a killer too,especially with a bit of tube rolling.I own none of these,but why should I bother to allow myself to allow "ego" to enter the picture(regarding my own unit),though I do love it.It would dull down credibility,IMO!Intimately familiar with the others mentioned.The best I've heard?Who knows?Maybe the "Zinfandel" could have had too much influence!Best regards!!
A nice topic to migrate into,on a similar note,would be:What are the best "small signal phono tubes" that you tubies have tried?This I'm well versed in;and they do make a BIG difference!!Anyone having a "big hitter" phonostage(Aesthetix,Manley etc.)that denies this,or hasen't tried it,is in for a nice surprise if they allow themselves to go that route!Best of luck! |
TRON Syren from the UK (www.tron-electric.com) |
I have owned the herron and now use the Tom Evans Groove +.
That is the best I have heard. There are many I have not heard. |
tbg, What pray tell is a H-Cat?! |
Rushton pretty well has taken the words right out of my mouth. I can't speak as an owner but I have a good friend with the full blown Aesthetix Io Sig. and it is pure pleasure! As for myself I recently acquired a Rhea and Calypso. Even in a head to head with the Io it comes real close to everything I have ever wanted out of a tube phono amp and paired with the sister preamp it works out real nice. IMO other than Ralph's Atma-sphere MP-1 w/phono, I have not heard anything close to Jim White's Aesthetix gear. A lot of folks have mentioned Lamm and Janis gear repeatedly through these threads on the subject of tube amplification, I have never heard either of them, but would like to very much. |
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I have an ancient outboard phono preamp...PS Audio II, which dates from the early 1980s, and was the original product of the firm. It consists of a single top quality circuit board, with top quality parts, inside an elcheapo folded aluminum shell with wooden ends. Who cares what it looks like as it is mounted out of sight. I think it cost about $275 (1980 dollars).
The circuit consists of complementary amps using very low noise transistors, and a passive RIAA equalization network between stages (instead of heavily equalized feedback). This was unique at the time. Does anyone use this approach now?
Anyway, I have yet to hear a better phono section.
PS Audio did come out with a later model, where the power supply was relocated to another box, but I don't know why because there was never a hum problem with the original model. They also evolved the design into a full preamp, with line level switching. When they jacked up the gain for MC pickups the results were not so hot. I used a transformer with mine, and it worked well. |
Lamm LP2 and Aesthetix, and the phono stage of my Jadis JP200. The Lamm phono/Jadis line combination is very synergistic. I would also imagine that a currently updated Vendetta would be among the best units around, if it exists. |
If your on a budget nothing beats the EAR 834. |
To date, my Aesthetix Rhea. |
Zanden, Connoisseur, and Klyne.
All beautifully made and beautiful sound.
All the best,
Mehran |
Folks looking to hear the Aesthetix Io one day: remember that the "Signature" version is truly better than the standard version. The cost-no-object premium parts quality in the Signature make a difference when considering phono stages at this level. Also, the optional second power supply gives a further enhancement.
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Weisner - Loesch (tubed)
AHT Non-signature (SS)
But I haven't been exposed to the Manley or the Pass or the Herron or the Io ... yet.
Enjoy,
Bob |
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