What is more accurate: magnetic anti-skating, or barrel weight attached a fishline?
I have seen turntables from Project, Music Hall, and a few other brands that still incorporate a small barrel weight attached to short fishline string which is stretched across a hooking loop to set ANTI-SKATING. It seems to be an artifact from the 1960's and 1970's tonearm design. It is also easy to lose or break
My question is how accurate is that "device" compared to magnetic anti-skating employed by many turntable manufacturers Thank you
There is an old trick to correctly set anti-skate.Because two (i.e L+R channel) signals out phase with each other will cause a -3db drop in volume when they meet.This is audible.You also need a mono switch on your preamp and your cartridge well aligned. I put my right channel on my cartridge out of phase and put the right speaker back in phase by changing polarity at the input.To find the correct anti-skate position put the preamp into mono.One side is out phase the other in phase.Adjust your anti skate until the signals meet and a volume drop occurs.You have electrically set correct anti-skate.Put preamp back into stereo mode to hear this. |
bifynne...no twist...just use my ears.....you always use too much and too little simultaneously. There is no way to properly adjust for a/s. ...a loud section of the record needs more, soft sections need less.....how much you say?,,, that depends on where the stylus is on the record...outside, or inside.....also, what is the shape of your stylus...how heavy are you tracking.....see what I mean? It simply can't be done properly...not even close.....and the force needed is so slight....(and so it goes) |
Stan, ... even though you might not use the VPI fish line AS device thingy, I recall that you follow Harry's advice by putting a slight twist in the tonearm wire which creates a slight amount of AS force. My point is that while Harry is not a big proponent of the fish line counter weight AS device, he believes that a tiny bit of counterforce might be helpful. As you may recall, I own a hot-rodded 1st generation Classic. I use a teeny amount of AS, not because I can detect a sound difference. Rather, I use it to help balance the force on the stylus to maintain even wear. That said, I have no clue if I am using too much or too little AS force. Only time will tell when I have my stylus checked for wear. BIF |
Nondric....your post regarding your Triplanar without A/S has rt channel distortion is suspect to ME. That doesn't sound like the kind of distortion one would get from too little/no A/S. Application of A/S applies more force to the left channel to prevent mistracking there (which can be eliminated by adding slightly more vtf anyway.) |
Dear Lew, Your premise about magnetic anti-skate provision is questionable and this imply that your conclusions are also questionable. I own the Reed 3 P and Lustre 801 both with magnetic anti-skate provisions. There may be some reduction of the magnetic force towards the inner grooves but this is different from the Sony provision which is calculated for the whole record radius. But, like you, I use the minimal anti-skate for my Triplanar and FR-64 S. The (possible) distortion in the right channel is the indication that at least some anti-skate is needed. |
Why is everyone so fixed on Anti-Skate? I use no antiskate at all and find the sound more open and free than when I use antiskate...but it really makes little difference....the use or non use is equally wrong....it is impossible to properly set for antiskate....the force is very slight and is constantly changing. |
Nandric, I think a magnetic set-up could provide for variation of the force with respect to the radius of the LP, depending upon how it is implemented. So, since there are many tonearms that use magnetic methods, why is the Sony so much better? To the OP, Since the skating force is varying constantly along the surface of the LP, is a moving target that you can never hit with confidence, there is no point in getting worked up over the exactitude of the anti-skate force. Salectric, I have a Triplanar, and I have listened to it with no AS. In my system, I hear a pronounced and obvious distortion in the R channel especially. This is cured by re-application of a very small amount of AS. From this I concluded that the Triplanar, or my Triplanar, sounds best with a very small amount of AS. I know that Doug Deacon and some others also expounded upon the evils of the Triplanar AS device, that it introduced some spurious resonances, but I don't hear that problem, either, so long as all the attaching screws are tight as possible. |
The most accurate anti-skate provision is provided by Sony PUA 237/286. By this provision the anti-skate force is different depending from the record radius. Neither later Sony tonearms nor any other manufacturer has copied this ingenious invention. Very strange because the usual kinds with equal force at any radius is obviously inadequate. |
I’m unaware of any standard or measurement for anti-skating that allows the notion of accuracy to apply universally across different tonearms. Check this thread for some great information on the topic of anti-skating: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-45-rpm-records-need-higher-anti-skate-setting?highlight=lp%2Brecords By the way, could you say a few turntable (tonearm?) manufacturers that offer magnetic anti-skating? |
My experience supports the No Antiskating option. Each arm where I have tried removing the AS has sounded better than with any amount of AS. These arms include Triplanar VII, Analog Instruments Siggwan, and Moerch DP-6. I also used a VPI JMW-10 for a number of years without AS but since it didn't have the option of AS, I am not including it on the list. |