What Do You Think . . . and How Does It Work?

Actually, I prefer using ABS over PVC for my 3-ways.

I have mounted base drivers in the kitchen sinks and the tweeter in the soap dispenser.

For power, I use a Insinkerator model #78238  ($209 @ SupplyHouse.com)

"We have been sold speakers that DONT WORK."

All of mine work. None ever died, except one tweeter once during the teenagers' party.

"They end up being resold because they are not good enough."

They may be resold, but the reason may not be that. People simply want to try different things from time to time. Not everyone wears same pants until they fall apart. People change them. Varietas delectat.

@cd318

have you heard the plutos?

kenjit,

You started off with some good points, but what happened after the conspiracy to suppress Harry Olson's research?  

• The speaker industry has swindled thousands of audiophiles over the last few decades using the same techniques.

• We have been sold speakers that DONT WORK. They end up being resold because they are not good enough. The used market for ultra high end speakers is just as active as for low end speakers.

• Measurements are rarely published. When they are, they may be exaggerated or even false.

• The high end industry is unregulated. If i was in charge, the Kenjit standards (TM) would never be met and i would shut down most of these so called speaker companies.
• Unemployment would rise within the speaker industry

• Any claim can be made and is assumed true until proven otherwise

• Speaker designers have no clue on what the correct method or goal is of speaker design.

• Speaker designers are not required to be qualified. Its like going to a doctor or dentist who is not qualified.

• The reviewers are chosen so that MOST speaker reviews are positive. Nobody would want a negative review published. Any negative aspects of a speaker are overlooked or downplayed. Only 5 star reviews accepted!

• Speakers are tuned to the designers ears, not OURS.

• CONSPIRACY to suppress OLSONS research (1950s)

• In the year 2500, speakers are a thing of the past.
• Music transmitted wirelessly directly into brain. 1hz to 30khz possible.

• Researchers of acoustics will discover old internet archives from the year 2020.
• Kenjits ideas and papers are scrutinized by Professors of acoustics
• Kenjit infinity baffle loading technology is found to be correct
• Kenjit speaker design is manufactured and tested by engineers and found to work

•  Kenjit is declared greatest Audiophile champion of all time BAR none.  

Anyway, going by previous experienced accounts (alymere p1, darkstar p2, and ctstereo p2) it seems that the Plutos are well worth tackling for those not yet willing to attempt the more challenging Linkwitz designs, Orion's/ LX521s.

In fact they very could easily rank amongst the greatest of all loudspeaker bargains. Hopefully more of these designs will be built so more of us can get to hear them for ourselves.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_F._Olson

I have speakers I fell back on and sprained my back. 🤕 note to self: it looks like this is going to be one of those days 🤗

glupson, true....+1 *S* I have ’conventional’ speakers that I can ’fall back on’ as desired. I enjoy them as well...and one needs a ’baseline’ to strive for, and perhaps surpass...

Keeps me out of trouble...at least, until I post here... ;)

Have a pleasant weekend. Let’s hope SpaceX makes history tomorrow.
We could use 'plug 'n play' spacecraft. *G*

bob540, *L*  In the past, I've owned 'better' equipment....but what was 'better' or 'best' then is more 'typical' now.  The 'goal posts' have moved, prices and exclusivity have gone up in most cases as well.
Meanwhile, we've grown older, our hearing has declined in most cases, and disposable funds have become generally limited for most.

First and foremost, I enjoy music..tending towards 'newer' forms, but spouse and I took the time to listen to Yo Yo Ma's 'gift' to us all over the weekend.  A superlative talent, playing Bach as only he knows how....and how! 👍👏😂

My current choice of equipment will not impress, nor is it meant to.
I've amassed that which 'works' for my tastes and desires.
'Flexible' is of more interest to me currently, done with a limited budget.

But it does 'what it does'....'good enough'...for my pleasure, and well enough to allow me to pursue my DIY goals.

After all....isn't this supposed to be 'fun', engaging. a delightful noise?

Yours, and all y'all...Jerry

bob540,

I agree with all three of your points.

My point was that most of the people do not have skills, time, energy, space, or even interest to do it themselves. They simply buy the best they can at that moment. They are often perfectly satisfied with their purchase and use it for years. It may not be as good as if they have done it themselves, although that is also a big gamble, but they can use them moments after they bring them home.

Just that feeling of "Made by Me" is worth it, but it may not be an option for most.

Jerry, I think we enjoy finding kindred spirits here.  I don’t have the means to approach “perfect”, if there is such a thing, but I look forward to enjoying some of the flavors of imperfect.  As others have stated, it’s about the music and enjoying it, not about fretting over the details.  If you enjoy the tweaking, have at it, but don’t forget why you and I are doing that — to enjoy the results.  I’ve been accused of over-thinking a lot of things, but when it comes down to it, just relax and enjoy.  You already have better equipment than most have ever had . . congratulations!  👍🏻

I'll supply alcohol to some extent....and call Uber if I think you're a public menace....;)

Thanks, it's nice to know I'm not insane....;)

"Mama didn't raise fools...'odd', but not fools....'   Maybe...*L*

The OP (Thanks, Bob!) pretty much describes WTH I'm about....I keep on 'doin' what I do', because:
a.2) I can afford to.
b.2) I have and am learning that YES, it isn't easy...but it IS a learning curve that does make one Think...which keeps the 'wetware' from solidifying...
c.2) Damn!  It does work!  It does sound good, and it does just what it's supposed to!

Yes, it's not 'perfect'.  And I'll be the first to admit it.
I lack the means and methodology at present to arrive at 'perfect'.

On the other hand, there's been an enormous amount of discussion rendered here and elsewhere as to what 'perfection' is and percieved as.

So...now, as before.  My door is open to whomever cares to arrive at it.
Come, listen for yourself.  I'm more than happy to have 'constructive criticism'.
You can come and have a good laugh at my equipment.  I don't claim SOTA.  'Functional' within means, yes.  'Hearing the violinist breathe?'

NO....and that's not the point, nor mine.

Wear your mask until I take your temperature. ;)

Put your presence where your typing is. *G*

Regards, J

(OK, I've just wandered into one of the other catagories.....oh, well...*LOL*)

@glupson, I know your question wasn't addressed to me per se, but I think people would be interested in DIY equipment for a few reasons:  a) you hope to end up with better equipment than you could afford to purchase from the manufacturer.  b) You might learn something in the process about how such things go together and work.  c) Pride in saying, "I made that and it sounds good!"  If you have the time and energy, why not build your own?

I missed this scientific philosophy duel in real time. I had to read reruns.

Is it too hard to understand that people buy speakers, the best ones they can, because they do not feel like building their own?

By the way, if google is not lying, there is no speaker company named Narcissus. Do I see a wonderful opportunity to name world's best concrete speakers? Flagship made of concrete Narcissus Herniakos. Followed by a standmount Narcissus  Acropolis. Desktop model Narcissus Komputerikos, Portable Bluetooth model Narcissus Fakeius, and cost-no-object Narcissus Kenjitos.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
Indeed...

What a party pooper! 

A Big Splash would be a merciful finish at this point. 

Heck don't stop, my Granny (God rest her soul) would think it was Saturday night wrestling.

 Haystack Calhoun vs Kenjit vs "The World"

Smart moneys on Kenjit...

Just sayin'

Time to go feed the chickens..

Regards...

Yikes! Double yikes!

Kenjit you can add sociopath to the list of ailments you exhibit. Recommendation is to get some professional help. Come back when you develop some self-awareness.  Maybe people will want to talk to you then.

Cheers!

Kenjit if you really want to keep this going, go start another thread. Maybe I will respond to your questions there. But I am through derailing this one, and apologize to bob540 for having done so. 

Duke

"That seem's unlikely don't you think"?           Bingo 🎯

If you believe that people should be held accountable for their behavior  speaker engineers must be held accountable to the audiophile community.

Why dont you call out other peoples behavior when they insult me? You applauded me for not retaliating but you didnt call out their behavior. Thats double standards.

You now call it a squabble yet you were the one who insisted it WAS more important than discussing speakers. That is a contradiction Duke. I have caught you out.
You also claimed that you had chosen not to engage with me on my terms but then you continued to engage with me about my behavior.
Another contradiction. You are only unwilling to engage with me about the topic of speakers, but you are perfectly willing to spend time bullying me and calling me names. 

You claimed you had stopped reasoning with me because you cant reason with a narcissist. Yet you expect me to change my behavior. That seems highly unlikely dont you think?

Why should anybody change their behavior to suit your needs? Thats not how it works. If you dont like it you have no choice but to concede defeat and walk away. On the other hand, speaker designers should be held accountable because audiophiles pay a lot of money for their toys. It is only fair that they get what they pay for. It is fair that we are given evidence of the QUALITY of the speakers we buy. The alternative is for the speaker companies to continue cheating audiophiles. 

You ASSUME that i have narcissism. You ASSUME its a choice.You make assumptions and expect others to disprove your assumptions. Not how it works. You CHOOSE to interpret my behavior as pompous or arrogant or dismissive or contemptuous. Other people may well have a different view. It is your fault that you refuse to accept there are other interpretations of my behavior.
You refuse to acknowledge that most people do have some level of narcissism. The article i linked to confirms that. So that includes you Duke. It is therefore hardly worth mentioning because its ubiquitous.

You wont show us the CSD plots for your speakers or explain why. 
You refuse to publish the frequency response graphs or the polar response.
On your homepage you say 

We only charge a modest markup on our products

Yet you charge $7600 for a wooden box with ordinary drivers. I know for a fact that you can buy a good woofer and tweeter for well under $100 each. Audiophiles may not know that though. If much of the cost is going on the finish, then the speaker is being sold based mostly on appearance than sound quality. 

Your whole claim to fame is CONSTANT DIRECTIVITY yet it seems odd that you dont publish any independently verified evidence of this. 
You also cant explain why so many audiophiles are perfectly fine with all the speakers out there that arent constant directivity!

Why dont you just admit that you rely on hearsay to sell your speakers rather than facts? 

Many of my points apply to every speaker including the Linkwitz pluto so its not a thread hijack at all. Wrong again.

Send over your ginas to me at your cost, and i will give you a list of all the things wrong with them. I dare you Duke. i am confident i will find problems with them. The same with other high end speakers. This is the reason speakers are resold because eventually audiophiles can no longer tolerate the problems they subconsciously hear. 

Hey there, hi there, ho!

You say yes, I say no. Don’t you think I’d know? Hel-loo!

Geoff, there is a time limit for that, I believe.

I don't blame you, Duke. It's all just unfortunate.

If you want it deleted expediently you can delete it yourself, no time limit for deleting posts. 

I’ve requested that my post just above this one be removed; decided that I’d rather not perpetuate the squabble.

Edit:  Thank you geoffkait for letting me know in your post just below that "delete" was still in effect after "edit" had timed out.  I've now deleted it. 

Duke

... now that I bothered to read a few lines.. "You treat them with compassion and accommodate them". See? 

Don't play the game, guys.

Nor am I surprised by your repeated attempts to bait me with allegations and accusations about my products and business.

The accusation comes from the fact that you cannot provide any EVIDENCE of the performance of your speakers. Its your own fault. Speaker companies do not like to talk about measurements, they prefer to rely on hearsay and reviews. And again you have made the assumption that I baited you. That was YOUR CHOICE. Another possibility is that it was an opportunity to try to justify yourself. You are not being honest with us. You offer a speaker that costs $7600 but cant give us evidence of what makes it superior to other cheaper speakers.It may well do what you claim it does but even then it doesnt make it superior.

You do not have the authority to hold me accountable. All you can do is repeatedly claim that I'm a narcissist. You dont hold a person with illness to account anyway. Its not a crime. You treat them with compassion and accommodate them. 

Behavior IS a choice. That’s why people are held accountable for it, unless they are insane.

Poppycock. This is not a court trial. And youre not the judge. Your diagnosis of narcissism isnt even valid. All you have done is stated your opinion about my behavior and that is fine. How would you know what part of my behavior is a choice or a disorder? 

Behavior is a matter of interpretation too and that is YOUR choice. 

For instance, I was not surprised to see you attempt "reversal", which is accusing me of the exact same behaviors you have displayed.

That is because you think you can call me out and other people cannot call you out. It is one rule for you and another for me. It is double standards. 

Hiding behind "disabled" when one is not, is a cheap trick. Disorder is the correct term here. Purposely and knowingly causing strife for one's own entertainment. Using tactics in attempt to make the other person believe THEY are the one in the wrong. Evading and twisting the points brought up by the target, etc. The bottom line is that the perpetrators know what they are doing all along. That is their game.

" How dare you expect a person with a disability to simply change? Disability is not a choice. "

Behavior IS a choice. That’s why people are held accountable for it, unless they are insane.

" The onus is on you to accommodate [narcissists] ."

Your double standard for behavior only exists in your fantasy world.

Actually I think the onus is on me to make my fellow audiophiles aware of what sort of behavior they can expect from you. If our expectations are realistic, we are less likely to be caught off guard when you say or do something toxic.

For instance, I was not surprised to see you attempt "reversal", which is accusing me of the exact same behaviors you have displayed.

Nor am I surprised by your repeated attempts to bait me with allegations and accusations about my products and business. I would reply if I thought you were reasonable and asking in good faith. Experience has taught me otherwise.

And for the record, in case anyone reading this is unaware of my standing offer:

If anyone other than Kenjit is actually curious about the questions he raises, let me know and I will reply.

And if anyone has reservations about my choice to not engage with Kenjit on his terms (which I have done many times in the past with uniform results), please google "reasoning with a narcissist."

Duke

"This is a speaker forum..."

It is not a "speaker industry conspiracy" forum, I hope. Which is all you try to do with it.

Surprise, I am very satisfied with my speakers. They cost more than a bag of rice and profit margin must have been substantial. I do not even feel ripped off. They are "boxes" and have no concrete in them as far as I know. They even fit in my room. I'd prefer different color, though.

If you would be so kind to raise awareness of shady speaker industry practices in areas that matter. March against poor choice of colored finishes. It is much bigger problem than whatever you have been pounding on so far. The way they look actually matters.

Duke has repeatedly used the accusation of narcissism to avoid talking about the points i raised. This is not only a fallacy but its also a form of harassment. He believes I suffer narcissism and treats it as a problem that i need to be shamed for. The reality is, he needs help to learn how to cope with his own emotions when dealing with people with narcissism. Then he will be able to respond to my points about the TOPIC instead of freaking out and losing his temper. This is a speaker forum not a forum for discussing peoples illnesses. Duke should mind his own business and stick to the topic. 

He says he wants to give me a taste of my own medicine. What good is that going to do anybody? Is it a punishment?

Duke has already lost the argument anyway because he has used insults as a way of evading the topic. Anybody who cant see that needs help too.

I have nothing left to prove. Ive made my points and if he wants to respond i will continue the discussion. 

Master Kenjit~ 

How about a group hug? I’m starting to tear up. 😢

True, it is too much, with no end in sight.

Yes it is and no reason to allow it to fester here. 

Map, Sad to say, I think this is just a reflection of the world as a whole in these times.

This place is really going downhill fast these days.  Maybe time to take another time off 

Kenjit playing the victim... oh the irony!

Kenjit wrote:

”The disabled community has fought to secure their rights and equal opportunities for a long time. We are protected against discrimination by law. You will not take that away from us Duke. The onus is on you to accommodate us.”

might want to read up on ADA or ask an attorney to explain it.  Duke owes you nothing here in the US.  Your speech is not protected under US ADA

Kenjit wrote:
“How dare you expect a person with a disability to simply change? Disability is not a choice.”

Is it your argument is that you have a disability and that is where you are writing from?

Well that was a convoluted mess...

ps kenny: 
if you want to trash an industry and it’s professionals be smart enough to expect some trash in return.   Adulting is hard... 

Duke has no authority to set the conditions for this forum. Narcissists are not excluded from here are they? 
People with disabilities have just as much rights as those without. 

Are you actually offering to change YOUR behavior, or only asking me to change mine?

How dare you expect a person with a disability to simply change? Disability is not a choice. 

People have a right to know when they are dealing with someone whose behavior is toxic. And I will out you.

Nobody has any right to know about a persons disability, its not their business. If a person does have a disability it is not toxic. The disabled community has fought to secure their rights and equal opportunities for a long time. We are protected against discrimination by law. You will not take that away from us Duke. The onus is on you to accommodate us. 

I have chosen to give you a taste of your own medicine.

Great idea. Lets call out all those with disabilities and give them a taste of their own medicine. Lets victimise them, harass them and remind them of how toxic they are to society. Lets discredit EVERYTHING they have to say on the basis of their disability. Lets just eliminate them off the planet so that only people that meet the standards DUKE lejeune sets are allowed to remain. 
That way we can CONTINUE TO HIDE THE DIRTY SECRETS WITHIN THE SPEAKER INDUSTRY and protect those that run it. 

• The speaker industry has swindled thousands of audiophiles over the last few decades using the same techniques. 

• We have been sold speakers that DONT WORK. They end up being resold because they are not good enough. The used market for ultra high end speakers is just as active as for low end speakers. 

• Measurements are rarely published. When they are, they may be exaggerated or even false. 

• The high end industry is unregulated. If i was in charge, the Kenjit standards (TM) would never be met and i would shut down most of these so called speaker companies. 
• Unemployment would rise within the speaker industry 

• Any claim can be made and is assumed true until proven otherwise

• Speaker designers have no clue on what the correct method or goal is of speaker design.

• Speaker designers are not required to be qualified. Its like going to a doctor or dentist who is not qualified. 

• The reviewers are chosen so that MOST speaker reviews are positive. Nobody would want a negative review published. Any negative aspects of a speaker are overlooked or downplayed. Only 5 star reviews accepted!

• Speakers are tuned to the designers ears, not OURS. 

• CONSPIRACY to suppress OLSONS research (1950s)

• In the year 2500, speakers are a thing of the past. 
• Music transmitted wirelessly directly into brain. 1hz to 30khz possible. 

• Researchers of acoustics will discover old internet archives from the year 2020. 
• Kenjits ideas and papers are scrutinized by Professors of acoustics
• Kenjit infinity baffle loading technology is found to be correct
• Kenjit speaker design is manufactured and tested by engineers and found to work

•  Kenjit is declared greatest Audiophile champion of all time BAR none.  

It’s funny when people can not see they have a < 5% approval rating yet continually prop themselves up as champions of the people.  
SMDH.....what was Ron White’s famous quote from a few years back?  Ya can’t fix ......

“Kenjit~

Undefeated Champion bar none“

Nope....sorry, self appointed titles carry zero clout nor credibility in the real world.  
Gong!!

Well folks, the next act will hopefully be better.