IcePower is rating their module in a conservative way. 2.7 ohms is three 8 ohm drivers in parallel. They are selling this amp for concert use and sub woofer use as well. You don't want your loud concert shutting off because the amp is going into protection. As I stated above, the IceEdge module measured 1000 watts into 2 ohms (1400 at 2.7 ohms) on the bench here yesterday. It drives his Thiel 3.7 better than his previous Bryston and Modwright amps. It is perfectly compatible. If you need more power than 1000 watts into 2 ohms then your speaker is really HARD to drive. Certainly the JC1s will give you 2200 watts into 2 ohms. But they do not sound that good by todays standard. There are many speakers around $2700 that would sound better and be easier to drive than an old CS5. But, selling those speakers would be hard. I could care less what class of amp will drive whatever speaker. I have been using a 92 db speaker for years with a 25 watt class A amp. Now I use my 600 watt a channel class D and get better sound. I don't need 600 watts....25 was perfectly fine. I just want the best sound possible. As I said, I don't think low sensitivity, low impedance speakers make any sense.....not in todays world. The times, they are a changing. |
Why do loudspeaker manufacturer's make ultra low impedance loudspeakers in the first place. lots of great speakers out there with easier loads to drive, many as good as, or better than Thiel. IMO. |
@ricevs - "I know someone using the Icepower IceEdge modules on his Thiel CS3.7's and he can blast it all he wants." CS3.7 impedance has been measured at 2.4 - 2.8 ohms through most of the frequency range by Stereophile. Icepower 1200AS1/2 has an minimum impedance of 2.7ohms. I doubt very much the person you know using the $300 Icepower modules is getting anywhere near full potential on his speakers. Back in the day (before internet sales), any experienced audio dealer wouldn't have sold an amp so badly unrated for this type of speaker. There's a reason both online reviews I've read suggest serious amps are required because these speakers are 'Pigs'. I wouldn't be selling these modules to anyone using speakers with anything less than 4 ohms minimum.
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I just could not resist - sorry - My Thiels were $2,600 delivered about two years ago, so I think it is just silly to pay any more for speakers🙂!
I have tried tried Class D amps from W4S and Audio Research with Maggie 3.6's, Thiel CS 3.6's, and Thiel CS5's in my listening room. In every case, they could not get the job done. I have looked at Nord but they do not double down into 2 ohms so I suspect they could sound lean as well.
Class D is attractive because of all the good reasons but still evolving, I guess. And maybe, at least for now, driving 2 ohm loads is not important to class D amp manufacturers.
Perhaps I will ask the question again in another couple years!
Thanks for listening,
Dsper
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The reason you are putting **** on this type of speaker, is that class-d won't drive them to their maximum sound quality. These types of speakers are engineered to be far closer to having ideal test mearsurements and sound perfection than easy to drive speakers, that are far more comprimised.
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The CS5 is a very old design using not the latest drivers, caps, resistors, wire, etc. etc. Any of the speakers I mentioned would kill it. Comparing an outdated old speaker to newer speakers is ignorant. Check out the reviews on the Ulfberht......one guy thought it was better than his big Wilsons.....and these are $9000 delivered and 98 db sensitive. No big current doubling into 2 ohm amps needed. Sorry, low impedance speakers are silly....even the latest most expensive ones....simply silly. When you can get moderately priced super transparent and easy to drive speakers under $10K.....these giant current hogging speakers are like an old model T. May they rest in peace. I am not saying the latest Wilsons, etc. do not sound good. Its just that you have to be super rich to buy them and buy a super expensive high current amp to drive them (Parasound JC-1s are not even in the running for transparency in the $2K range today, however, they do make a fine bass amp) . Save your money. Give the money saved to those that need it. Do you think it makes "sense" to spend lots of money on super expensive current hogging speakers and super expensive current producing amps when you can get as good or better sound with way less expensive high sensitivity speakers and reasonably priced amps? Maybe you have a different "sense" than me.
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Speakers like these Thiel CS5's, their bigger bother the CS7's, all Wilson Watt/Puppy, Alexia's mkI an mkII, also the Alex, Max ect ect ect and many other brands, have sound to behold when "driven" with amps that can do current, that can keep doubling the full output wattage for each halving of impeadance loading, and to say this type of speaker doesn't make sense, shows high degree of ignorance, bad hearing or never heard them "driven" properly.
Cheers George |
I know someone using the Icepower IceEdge modules on his Thiel CS3.7's and he can blast it all he wants. I have tested the IceEdge module to do 1000 watts at 2 ohms. That is a lot of power but less than half on what a JC-1 will do. I think very old design speakers with this kind of impedance don't make sense. You limit yourself to amps and I have no doubt there are far more transparent higher efficiency speakers out there.....Check out Spatial, GR Research, Tekton. These speakers are very sensitive and very transparent. You could even make some speakers for very little that would be mucho better....and easier to drive. Almost everything I have is DIY. BTW, the Stereophile review shows a 2 ohm load for the CS5....where does one half ohm come from? https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs5-loudspeaker-measurements-0
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I am using an Apollon NC800 SL amplifier, based on Hypex nCore NC500, with special buffer using Sparkos SS2590 discrete opamps, to amplify my Thiel CS3.7, which run almost all frequency range near 2 ohms. Recommended, sound great, no background noise whatsoever.
If you need more power consider the nCore NC1200 based amplifiers (Nord, Apollon).
The new Purifi modules should be good to go for 2 ohms too.
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Those Thiels are monsters to drive. I owned the CS7.2 which was an easier, but still rough load on amps. The Parasound JC1's struggled and shut down a couple times even with them. I ended up with Krell FPB 650M monoblocks. Finding an amp that can control/make those older Thiels really perform at there best is limited imo.
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I believe the Rogue Hydra and Medusa are stable to 2 ohms. I have the Hydra and it is a great amp. |
Yeah your speakers are one of the greats but need a equally great amp to do them justice, especially in the bass.
Those here that say x class-d can, can not show independent test resuts that show the 8ohm wattage doubling to 4ohms and then the most important one almost doubling again from 4ohms down to 2ohms.
This is the true test to see if an amp is able to "drive" properly into 2ohms and in your case .5ohms, and not just make some noise into it.
DESPER a pair of John Curl designed Parasound Halo JC1 monoblocks will do the job nicely, and not cost much used.
Cheers George |
George, I think you are probably correct I but had to ask!
My McCormack DNA-500 does pretty good and I suspect a real improvement is going to cost big bucks.
Dsper. |
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Nord Acoustics base most of their amps on Hypex and are entirely happy to state those amps will be able to drive speakers at 2ohms. Independent testing has pros and cons and, having perused several hi-fi forums for some years, I've long since concluded the only "proof" is to demo and listen with your own kit and ears.
Coincidentally, I have the joy of a demo with a pre-amp in 5 days and, assuming the SQ makes me smile, I will need to partner it with a power amp. A Nord One MP NC252 (entry level) is going to get a run, as is a Mytek Brooklyn Amp (NAD's own C 268 will also be given a whirl as it's there). All are class D and a friend of mine, with decent ears for detail, rates the Mytek highly. Just for transparency, my current speakers don't engage the 2ohms issue but future speakers may so that's something I keep in mind.
If the NORD comes close to the Mytek, it will give me the best part of GBP £1,000 for another piece of kit :-) . In that event, I will exercise great self-control and (probably) not smile smugly at my friend....
@dsper Hope you find what you need / want. |
You’ve got one of the greats in those Thiel CS5’s dsper, but are seriously hard to drive.
The OP has asked which Class-D can "DRIVE" a 2ohm load, not one that won’t occillate or blow up into a 2ohm load, and not be able to drive it fully.
I’ve seen no Class-D independently tested, be able to come close to doubling it’s 4ohm wattage when presented with 2ohms, and remaining stable and comfortable doing so.
This is a true test of being a great amp that can handle and "DRIVE" speaker loads such as Wilsons ect can present down to below 1ohm, including your Thiel CS5’s, they can go down to .5ohm at 20hz and remain at 2ohms still at 50hz!, and are still under 3ohms all the way up to 200hz!!!
None of the Class-D’s mentioned here will do these great speakers justice at all, the ones suggesting so are all tripping!.
Cheers George. |
Most D-Sonic are stable down to at least 2 ohms.
Tim
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Cherry amps, by Digital Amplifier Company. |
