Yes, I had seen that test. I would guess that the module only? (he he) does a little under 1100 watts into 2 ohms at 1% distortion. Plenty of grunt for 98% of listeners on 95% of the speakers in the world. I have never read a post that said any amp using these modules would not drive a particular speaker.......Can you find one? A powerhouse, for sure.
Showing 12 responses by ricevs
Check out post #42. $5500 all out Apollon stereo amp using NC1200 modules A/Bed with $20K mono Krells. Sexy amp! https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/rocking-the-boat-nord-hypex-nc1200-signature-amplifier.27730/page-3 |
The Mola Mola amps are using the Hypex NC1200 module. You can buy mono block amps from $1700 a pair using these same modules. VTV Amplifier have $1700 mono blocks using the built in stock input stage and $3000 the pair with expensive Weiss discrete input stages using Sparko labs regulators. Even more high end is the mono blocks from Apollon that add better sexier, stunning looking chassis, wire, jacks, and separate linear power supply for the Weiss input op amps....these are $6000 the pair delivered to the US......the Mola Mola's are $17K! I doubt the Mola's would be as good as the Apollon. Check them out! These amp modules are rated at 1200 watts into 2 ohms (hence the name...NC1200). When the Mola Mola amps first came out the only way a manufacturer could sell an amp using these modules was to agree to sell mono blocks for at least $9K. This was to protect the Mola Mola brand. A couple of years ago Hypex finally stopped this restriction so now amps using these modules can be sold for way, way less. The Acoustic Imagery (now out of business) Astah amps ($9K the pair) were reviewed in link below. These amps used the built in op amp (equivalent now sells for $1700!!!). http://www.10audio.com/acoustic-imagery_atsah.htm |
George, You are not even addressing his statement. Class D can already drive low impedances.......1100 watts from the NC1200 and 1000 watts from the mono 1200AS1 (all at 2 ohms). Tons of high end manufacturers use class d in their subs and in their powered speakers. Certainly, there are those very very few super low impedance speakers that need a welding amp to drive them. The switching speed of an amp and the type of output devices have little to do with power (so why are you bringing it up?). The Technics does not have super low impedance driving capability (300 watts a channel into 4 ohms and no mention of lower impedance capabilities). That amp converts all analog signals to 24/192 and then fools around with the signal in the digital domain before it changes PCM to PWM.....really a digital amp. I was talking to someone at IcePower some time ago about them using GaN transistors. They said the engineers were looking at them because they are so efficient they can be used in serious high power amps with less heatsinking. The IceEdge chipset is capable of producing up to 7000 Watts. Imagine what that amp could drive! There is no reason class D cannot drive even super low impedances....but why? Since the number of amps that need drive below 2 ohms is super limited....they why would a manufacture bother? You need higher voltage rails, more capacitors, more output devices, larger circuit boards, more cost, etc. Also......all amps create more distortion as the impedance lowers......I have never seen a measurement of an amp that did not measure worse at 4 ohms compared to 8......and then 2 ohms is even worse. Why would you want to listen to more distortion? High efficiency speakers and reasonable impedances make sense. BTW, this (link below) has been available for years. No one has made a serious version, that I know of.....2000 watts into 2 ohms.....is that enough power?! It has built in op amp, somewhat low gain and low input impedance.....so probably would never sound as good as the NC1200 tweaked to the max........but, shows what can be done. Look at the size of that 3000 watt switching supply you use with it Much more can be done with GaNs as they are so efficient. https://www.hypex.nl/product/nc2k-oem/79 |
Simple fact, very few amps.....including class A or A/B doubles its power down to 2 ohms. For instance, the Parasound JC1+ was measured at 1200 watts into 2 ohms (if it doubled all the way down to 2 ohms then it would put out 2000 watts).....which, by the way is exactly what the NC2000 does (2000 watts)....sorry, Parasound loses. By the way, the Merrill 118 class D mono blocks double all they way down to 2 ohms (1600 watts into 2 ohms)....much better than Parasound. Doubling power does not matter. The only thing that matters is whether the amp has enough power at 2 ohms to drive the speaker at the listening level you want. George can rant on and on about this but this is the truth. 1000 watts into 2 ohms is 1000 watts into 2 ohms. Practically no one who has a 2 ohm dip speaker will ever use this much power unless you are in a huge room and play super, super loud.....this is the actual fact.....not anything to do with doubling power. George has never listened to any of these class D amps so what does he know about how they drive these speakers? You know the answer. |
I did not see this earlier. Yes, you can buy mono blocks using the 2000 watt into 2 ohm Ncore 2k modules, the 3000 watt Hypex power supply with Weiss discrete buffers and Sparko regulators for $3200 the pair. This will drive the crap out of those hard to drive speakers. https://vtvamplifier.com/product/vtv-amplifier-monoblock-hypex-nc2000-ncore-amplifier-2000w-with-vtv-buffer-input/ |
Its so obvious you are in ego protection mode. Ralph is not even talking about power......in fact, you are the one that brought up (for no apparent reason)....your thoughts on bandwidth and GaNs here. They have nothing to do with power and you know it. I sold 12 class D amps LAST YEAR and am making no more.....so what product am I protecting? You keep saying the same silly things over and over again. I really feel sorry for you. BTW, I have said all that I know on this subject so I will bow out unless I see some info that needs help. I like to be helpful. I want people to be happy and buy the best and least expensive thing for their stereo or whatever. |
I know someone using the Icepower IceEdge modules on his Thiel CS3.7's and he can blast it all he wants. I have tested the IceEdge module to do 1000 watts at 2 ohms. That is a lot of power but less than half on what a JC-1 will do. I think very old design speakers with this kind of impedance don't make sense. You limit yourself to amps and I have no doubt there are far more transparent higher efficiency speakers out there.....Check out Spatial, GR Research, Tekton. These speakers are very sensitive and very transparent. You could even make some speakers for very little that would be mucho better....and easier to drive. Almost everything I have is DIY. BTW, the Stereophile review shows a 2 ohm load for the CS5....where does one half ohm come from? https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs5-loudspeaker-measurements-0 |
The CS5 is a very old design using not the latest drivers, caps, resistors, wire, etc. etc. Any of the speakers I mentioned would kill it. Comparing an outdated old speaker to newer speakers is ignorant. Check out the reviews on the Ulfberht......one guy thought it was better than his big Wilsons.....and these are $9000 delivered and 98 db sensitive. No big current doubling into 2 ohm amps needed. Sorry, low impedance speakers are silly....even the latest most expensive ones....simply silly. When you can get moderately priced super transparent and easy to drive speakers under $10K.....these giant current hogging speakers are like an old model T. May they rest in peace. I am not saying the latest Wilsons, etc. do not sound good. Its just that you have to be super rich to buy them and buy a super expensive high current amp to drive them (Parasound JC-1s are not even in the running for transparency in the $2K range today, however, they do make a fine bass amp) . Save your money. Give the money saved to those that need it. Do you think it makes "sense" to spend lots of money on super expensive current hogging speakers and super expensive current producing amps when you can get as good or better sound with way less expensive high sensitivity speakers and reasonably priced amps? Maybe you have a different "sense" than me. |
IcePower is rating their module in a conservative way. 2.7 ohms is three 8 ohm drivers in parallel. They are selling this amp for concert use and sub woofer use as well. You don't want your loud concert shutting off because the amp is going into protection. As I stated above, the IceEdge module measured 1000 watts into 2 ohms (1400 at 2.7 ohms) on the bench here yesterday. It drives his Thiel 3.7 better than his previous Bryston and Modwright amps. It is perfectly compatible. If you need more power than 1000 watts into 2 ohms then your speaker is really HARD to drive. Certainly the JC1s will give you 2200 watts into 2 ohms. But they do not sound that good by todays standard. There are many speakers around $2700 that would sound better and be easier to drive than an old CS5. But, selling those speakers would be hard. I could care less what class of amp will drive whatever speaker. I have been using a 92 db speaker for years with a 25 watt class A amp. Now I use my 600 watt a channel class D and get better sound. I don't need 600 watts....25 was perfectly fine. I just want the best sound possible. As I said, I don't think low sensitivity, low impedance speakers make any sense.....not in todays world. The times, they are a changing. |
You only need as much power as you need. The "rated" lowest manufacturer suggested impedance for the IceEdge is 2.7 ohms. But in "real life" it puts out 1000 watts at 2 ohms. What a manufacturer recommends and what is real are sometimes far off. Again, the person with the 3.7s can blast as loud as he wants and it sounds incredible. What more do you want? A spec that makes you happy? Reality makes the owner happy. You don’t need an amp to double its power as it halves its impedance at 2 ohm. You just need enough power at 2 ohm (or whatever ohm) to control the speaker (assuming you have a speaker that needs that) at the volume you listen...again, I feel such low impedance speakers are outdated and don’t make "sense". Almost all amps (no matter what class) make more distortion (measurable) and have less damping factor the lower the impedance. Hardly any amp measures good at 2 ohms. Again, why have such a speaker? No way an old Levinson sounds as good as this mono tweaked IceEdge. But George will just keep repeating the same old lines (he hates class d...unless it has GaNs and has 1.5 meg switching). 100 watts into 2 ohms is not 1000 watts at 2 ohm. And my IceEdge modules beat my super simple super tweaked custom mono class A amps (also 25 watts a channel and will double/double all the way down to 100 watts into 2 ohms). The IceEdge module is current limited at 38 amps.....it is not unlimited. No one ever said it was. It will drive 95% of all speakers to whatever levels someone needs and sounds very, very good. Not state of the art...but very good. Again, here is what it actually does: (600 watts into 8 ohm, 1200 watts into 4 ohms, 1400 watts into 2.7 ohm and 1000 watts into 2 ohm). If you need more power than that then you must look elsewhere. |
This is so weird. We have a guy here who thinks that one thing he makes up means something. No one else would make up such a story. You don't need double the wattage into 2 ohms to drive a 2 ohm load. All you need is an amp that is stable into 2 ohms and has enough power to drive the speakers. If your speakers are 87db at one meter....then lets say it is 83 db at your listening chair. That means 93 db will be reached with 10 watts and 103db with 100 watts. If that is as loud as you listen...I rarely listen this loud.... then a 1000 watt at 2 ohms amp will give you plenty of headroom. This is simple science. If an amp can double its power from 4 to 2 ohms that means it has a very stiff power supply. However, it does not insure that it sounds good with any load. This is just a static test. It means very, very little by itself. If you get 20 different amps that do 1000 watts into 2 ohms (with stability) then you will get 20 different sounds. Some will sound bad, some good and some great. The sound of an amp is dependent on hundreds of different things. One factor (a made up factor) does not make a good sounding amp. I made my amp sound way more dynamic and alive by doing various mods to it. The power did not increase, the amps it can draw did not increase......but the powerfulness and transparency of the sound increased. Why oh why would anyone make a speaker with a 2 ohm load? It makes no sense. It is not more linear and/or lower distortion to have lower impedances. If you have a speaker with a 2 ohm load that means you cannot use moderately powerful amps (that may sound better and be cheaper), you have lower damping factor and it is known by almost everyone that the lower impedance an amp has to drive the more distortion the amp produces. Only those designers stuck in a paradigm from the past will make speakers that way today (Wilson, etc?.). Even Magico has raised the impedance of their latest and best MKII speakers so they do not dip below 3 ohms. These guys are smart. The trend is for more sensitive speakers and/or powered woofers. This is a good idea. Look at the latest Spatial and GR Research open baffle speakers. In some models you only drive the mids and highs (92-96 db sensitivity at 8 ohms) and you have either servo woofs or powered woofs on the bottom. |